GA - Jonah, 3, & Nicole Payne, 2, Warrenton, 23 April 2005

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

This is when this happens - when there are too many adults watching the kids...

Oftentimes, everyone just assumes that someone else has them. We've learned that the best way is for whomever is watching them to verbally pass the child. For instance, at a party on Sunday my little one was with me. A short while later, she ran into the living room where my son was so I went to him and asked, "Okay, you know that you have her, right?", to which he said yes. When she decided it was time to play outside, my son said to his father, "Dad, you have the baby", and my husband said "Yes". We learned through experience, (but luckily not the hard way), that it is indeed very easy for them to slip away when a lot of responsible people are around. My family is sick to death of this "verbal baton" that I've forced on them but it helps so much - when the child is out of your sight, you know that you've made it perfectly clear to someone that you are no longer watching the child, and that they are.

Of course, there are still no guarantees but it's an extra layer of protection anyway.

 

[lady-eowyn]

You know what I find interesting? I've noticed several people on here make remarks about how the children "escaped"...it really is like we should be keeping them locked up to keep them safe. I find that a sad world to live in

Regarding the time in the bathroom...people guesstimate stuff like that...I know when I take off to the bathroom I never look at the clock and time myself, I simply guesstimate - I was in their 5 minutes, 10 minutes etc...I'm sure that's what the mother is doing. Does she have to come out and say "well I really had to take a s***" or "I had a really heavy period and had to clean up" for anyone to believe her? 15 minutes might seem like a long time to be in the bathroom for some (it does for me because I'm an in and out kind of person) but for some it isn't.

 

[Timex]

You know what I find interesting? I've noticed several people on here make remarks about how the children "escaped"...it really is like we should be keeping them locked up to keep them safe. I find that a sad world to live in.

I have the same concerns. Almost makes me hope my kids choose not to have kids of their own, as I just dont see how a child can possibly grow up mentally healthy when they have to be raised to fear everything about thier world. The days of childhood innocence are gone, I think that is one of the main contributors to the juvenile problems we have now.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

From what the father said, the little girl was the leader of the two, had opened both the front door and the gate before, with her brother following right behind her. He also said the little boy was on the clumsy side, tended to trip over things especially while running. Most likely scenario is that once out of the yard they ran in the direction of the pond; at the pond one of the children slipped and fell into the water. The second child jumped into the water after the first and both drowned.

I thought this too but then it might also be that one fell in or went in deliberately, and the other one thought it looked like fun, and went in too. I don't know how deep it is but with the thick algae, they could have become stuck. Has anyone seen the pond in photos? Were you able to see that it was water or was the algae covering it in such a way that the kids might have walked right into it thinking it was the ground?

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

You know what I find interesting? I've noticed several people on here make remarks about how the children "escaped"...it really is like we should be keeping them locked up to keep them safe. I find that a sad world to live in

I don't mean it that way. I say "escape" even when I refer to my own baby. To her, it is an escape. When she gets it in her mind that it's time to play outside, she will try to escape through the front door every chance she gets. You can see to her that it's great fun because when she gets out, (with me right in tow), she runs all over the front lawn smiling & giggling. That's all I mean by escape ... that when you tell a child no, it becomes more like a challenge, an adventure, an escape.

 

[Timex]

If the algea was so think police didnt see the children the first time they searched, I assume the surface was pretty well covered.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

If the algea was so think police didnt see the children the first time they searched, I assume the surface was pretty well covered.

So those poor little babies might have just assumed it was the ground, and had no idea of the danger beneath.

 

[kgeaux]

Oftentimes, everyone just assumes that someone else has them. We've learned that the best way is for whomever is watching them to verbally pass the child. For instance, at a party on Saturday my little one was with me. A short while later, she ran into the living room where my son was so I went to him and asked, "Okay, you know that you have her, right?", to which he said yes. When she decided it was time to play outside, my son said to his father, "Dad, you have the baby", and my husband said "Yes". We learned through experience, (but luckily not the hard way), that it is indeed very easy for them to slip away when a lot of responsible people are around. My family is sick to death of this "verbal baton" that I've forced on them but it helps so much - when the child is out of your sight, you know that you've made it perfectly clear to someone that you are no longer watching the child, and that they are.

Of course, there are still no guarantees but it's an extra layer of protection anyway.

Jersey, This is an EXCELLENT thing to do. I am going to pass this system along to everyone I know with small children. I was reading Katherine's post just a minute ago and when she mentioned that it's often when there are MANY adults around that tragedies happen,I realized she was so right, but I hadn't come up with a "plan" for how we could change that....your system is perfect. Thanks so much for sharing how you and your family handle this!

 

[lady-eowyn]

I don't mean it that way. I say "escape" even when I refer to my own baby. To her, it is an escape. When she gets it in her mind that it's time to play outside, she will try to escape through the front door every chance she gets. You can see to her that it's great fun because when she gets out, (with me right in tow), she runs all over the front lawn smiling & giggling. That's all I mean by escape ... that when you tell a child no, it becomes more like a challenge, an adventure, an escape.

Kind of like the Beatles in A Hard Day's Night - "We're out!!" :crazy:

I know you don't mean they children should live in a prison...it's just the analogy that I've been seeing a lot lately...about how the only solution is to keep our children in tow at all times, to put bars on windows, multiple locks on doors. It makes me think of children's freedom being squelched. I guess much of it comes from the fact that I grew up in an era where we were allowed to run outside unattended, we were allowed to walk to the store without an adult, we were allowed to wander the woods by ourselves. I just feel that children today are missing so much in the way of exploring their world

 

[maggief]

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/0405/26warren.html

EXCERPTS

Kathy Coleman, owner of Coleman's Mobile Home Park in Gibson, said DFCS called her about two years ago regarding complaints that the parents had left Jonah alone in their trailer.

On one occasion, Coleman said, Kain said she could leave the boy alone because he would be safe in his playpen. Coleman said she scolded Kain, saying: "Good Lord, don't you know a baby can get out, and turn the stove on and burn the house down?"

Coleman said she evicted the family about a year ago for nonpayment of rent. While they lived in her mobile home park, Coleman said, "The house was a mess. Old food . . . on the tables in the living room. Food on the couch. . . . I wouldn't feed my dog [there]."

Brenda Johnson, who said she has known the family for about four years, said she and her husband went to the couple's home Saturday night after they learned the children were missing. She said she stayed with Kain while her husband joined the search that included 150 people, heat-seeking devices, infrared radar and dogs.

"She didn't seem emotional," Johnson said. She said Kain told her she thought a vindictive neighbor had taken the children and hidden them as a way to get back at her.

(snip)

Bankhead of the GBI said the children wandered away after Nicole figured out how to open the front gate. The pond, which lies at the end of a dirt path a few hundred yards away, is surrounded by a fence but has several holes a child could get through, police said.

(snip)

 

[LovelyPigeon]

A previous investigation by DFCS for neglect does not bode well for Kain.

 

[Timex]

Boy Law Enforcement just cant seem to get anything right. yesterday they said they had checked for previous encounters with DFCS, and there were none.

 

[nanandjim]

...
"She didn't seem emotional," Johnson said...

It appears that I am "the odd man out" here. I still suspect the mother. Look at the picture they show of the parents at the news conference. She doesn't appear distraught at all. She has that fake "Susan Smith" look on her face.

To me, it is highly suspect that those two babies made it through thick woods and found the sanitation park 1/2 mile away.

The father does not appear to be involved. I heard him on Nancy Grace, and he sounded really confused as to what could have happened to the children. He said that the kids were not familiar with the park, and he didn't understand how the gate was closed behind them. He also said the little boy was not real steady on his feet and definitely would have fallen over bumps, tree stumps, etc.

While I am on a roll, I am also suspicious about the chemical burn on the baby's forehead. I don't believe the baby did this by herself.

If the mother is involved, I hope and pray that they will be able to get enough evidence to charge her.

 

[Timex]

on Fox just a few minutes ago:

corner said that he would not say at this time whether there is a case of child neglect

cause of death has not been determined, no signs of trauma

Coroner stressed at this time they do NOT suspect any fowl play

 

[Julie]

I agree with you, I'm quite leary of the mother too.
They had to have been alone for quite awhile to get out of the house, out the gate, to the water and find a way into the fence around the water. jmho.
They were little, they wouldn't just walk up to the fence and see a hole ahead of time and try to get through it. again jmho.

 

[TaylorJ4]

My oldest was a wanderer (still is at age 21!) I was a single Mom when he was a toddler and I used to lock him in the bathroom with me when I took a shower. I put a hook and eye closure on the top of my apartment door and he once used a broom handle to push the hook out and open the door.

I will admit to not being as cautious with my younger ones because they never seemed to have the drive to ESCAPE that Grant did...

Shannon

 

[kato]

It appears that I am "the odd man out" here. I still suspect the mother. Look at the picture they show of the parents at the news conference. She doesn't appear distraught at all. She has that fake "Susan Smith" look on her face.

To me, it is highly suspect that those two babies made it through thick woods and found the sanitation park 1/2 mile away.

The father does not appear to be involved. I heard him on Nancy Grace, and he sounded really confused as to what could have happened to the children. He said that the kids were not familiar with the park, and he didn't understand how the gate was closed behind them. He also said the little boy was not real steady on his feet and definitely would have fallen over bumps, tree stumps, etc.

While I am on a roll, I am also suspicious about the chemical burn on the baby's forehead. I don't believe the baby did this by herself.

If it is the mother, I hope and pray that they will be able to get enough evidence to charge her.

I agree that the mom's emotions looked fake. And the way she kept burying her head in his chest.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

The father was on the phone with Nancy Grace and said they had bought a lock with a chain and were going to put it on that night. The mother was in the bathroom around 15 minutes and that is a lot longer than I had thought at first. The distance is around 200-300 yards down a path with a lot of brush but it leads directly to the gate.

Yeah, I saw that. So........ that means they KNEW the kids were getting out. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

 

[PrayersForMaura]

live on fox news now info about this case

 

[PrayersForMaura]

Father doubts they got that far on their own but doesn't want to speculate....