GA - Jonah, 3, & Nicole Payne, 2, Warrenton, 23 April 2005

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

My three year old sleeps in my room (in his toddler bed). I am a crazy nut job worry wart. :bang:

Very nice to meet you ... I am a crazy nut job worry wart, too, and my almost 3 year-old still sleeps with me!

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Ive heard of many parents that do this, and it always leaves me wondering...when do they have time for them...as in, will this be an only child? Would think it would be a bit difficult to "create" another when the toddler is sharing the bedroom.

Where there's a will, there's a way! See, during those times, parents are still awake, still able to hear things, still able to leave lights on all over the house to give the impression that people are still awake. It's only when going to sleep for the night that the baby gets brought in.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0504/25/ng.01.html

GRACE: Joining us by phone, the children`s father, Dennis Payne...

PAYNE: Well, my wife, simply like she said, she was in the room and they -- the youngest one opened up the door. That`s what she said. And when she came around the corner, the door was wide open, and the kids were gone.

GRACE: Oh, gosh.

PAYNE: And we ran around the house, the yard, and everything looking for them. No sign of them...

(Later in the interview) ...

GRACE: Where were you? Where were you, Mr. Payne? You were at work?

PAYNE: Yes.

GRACE: So you were in -- what happened? Did she call 911 quickly or did she go out to try to find them herself?

PAYNE: She tried to find them first, and then she called 911.

GRACE: Yes, you`d think that they would be in the yard, maybe playing around the car.

PAYNE: That`s what she -- that`s why she went in around the yard and looked first. And then, I mean, to be honest with you, I don`t have a answer for any of those because I wasn`t here.

:waitasec:

 

[TaylorJ4]

My hubby works nights, and my two youngest sleep with me...after Danielle, Jessica and all the other children who were stolen from their beds, I may move my teenagers in there as well!

Does anyone find it odd she didn't hear the door open? This was a mobile home-I live in a large, two story house and can hear my front door open from anywhere in the house.

Shannon

 

[TaylorJ4]

Um...not to be crude or anything, but you don't have to "do it" at night...or in your own bed, for that matter!

Shannon (mom to 5 kids, all of whom have slept with us when they were little!)

 

[Jeana (DP)]

This mother is a human being and she might have forgotten to lock the door when they came in from outside. They also lived in an area where it was really rural. Parents in the country would tend to worry less then parents living in a big city.

I haven't read anything about the mother leaving the kids outside alone to play.

Darlin, then I suggest you read the entire thread because she did. Child Protective Services had been visiting this family EVERY WEEK FOR TWO YEARS. Something wasn't right.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Yes, I saw a hugh hole in the fence on FNC and the reporter said there were several holes that anyone could have gotten through.
I don't like the circumstances of this case, either. I've known negligent parents but this seems more than that.
Imo, it's very possible an adult threw them into the pond and they drown.

The sense that I'm getting is that the parents probably did love these kids but didn't take enough precautions.

Sure, the mother had to use the bathroom but the kids had just gotten out less than two hours prior ... to leave them alone for 15 minutes after that was dangerous. Whether or not she realized that, I don't know. They probably wish, as we all do, that they would have put that lock on as soon as they got back from the store with it.

I don't yet think that the mother intentionally harmed them. I do think, however, that she the circumstances aren't as she says. I don't know what she was really doing, or if she was out of the room for an hour as opposed to 5 minutes or 15 minutes, or whatever the time frame is this morning. I don't know if she has a good concept of time. But somehow, for some reason, the times don't seem right. It could be that she was napping or watching tv or reading a book or any number of other things, and doesn't want her husband to know that she left them alone for as long as she did. Maybe she fears losing him; it seems that he is all she has left.

It's so sad for everyone involved.

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I picked up on that statement too. I'm wondering if that means she's pregnant!

I interpreted it to mean that he has other children. Now you've got me curious! But I'm going to resist reading too much into wording. It got me in trouble before, and the guilt has only begun to subside through a lot of hard work that I've felt necessary to do as a sort of penance!!!

 

[nanandjim]

...I don't like the circumstances of this case, either. I've known negligent parents but this seems more than that.
Imo, it's very possible an adult threw them into the pond and they drown.

I agree. I briefly tuned into Nancy Grace last night and got the general impression that she and her panel thinks more investigation needs to be done. It sounds as if they think the autopsy and crime scene investigation could not have been accomplished in such a short period of time.

 

[kgeaux]

I picked up on that statement too. I'm wondering if that means she's pregnant!

That's certainly possible. But I took it to mean that these children weren't the Dad's first children.

 

[StillTrouble74]

After all, babies who are left in car seats and die are "accidents," yet parents are charged for that sort of thing every year. Why is this different?

I still don't understand that concept. how do you "forget" your child is in the car, ever?


But back to the case at hand,
I can't wrap my head around leaving them alone for 15 minutes, regardless of the reason, when my children were active toddlers, no way I was allowed to sit anywhere for 15 minutes during the day, not even the restroom
they could well have worked their way to that pond and gone in on their own
but I have to say someone is responsible... or perhaps noone was and thats why this has come to light

 

[kgeaux]

Darlin, then I suggest you read the entire thread because she did. Child Protective Services had been visiting this family EVERY WEEK FOR TWO YEARS. Something wasn't right.

Jeana, could you point me to the article that talks about the weekly visits? I've heard that, but can't locate the article. I'm wondering--that's 104 visits! And yet there wasn't evidence to remove the children????

Does Child Protective Services visit to TEACH people how to be better parents? Or were each of these visits due to reports of neglect? If they'd been reported 104 times, then that's a BIG PROBLEM.

 

[Marstan]

she had a traffic violation in Apache Junction. That is right next to Phoenix.

New to this site and wanted to ask you a question. I too looked up Kain in the Public Access Records and found Roberta Kain listed as receiving a ticket in Apache Junction. However, did you look at the date of birth? She is 54 years old and has two children ages 2 and 3? Now that sounds hinky for sure. Are we sure these kids were not adopted or something, I mean having babies after 50 is not unheard of, however, it is quite a feat.

JMOO:waitasec:

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Does Child Protective Services visit to TEACH people how to be better parents? Or were each of these visits due to reports of neglect? If they'd been reported 104 times, then that's a BIG PROBLEM.

It was my impression that they were scheduled for weekly visits, not that they went out for separate reports.

It is curious though that we've been hearing about the house being filthy but the authorities that were coming to the house every week must not have thought that the situation was unacceptable.

 

[less0305]

I'm having a hard time with the dad's statement on Nancy Grace that they just bought a safety chain and was going to put it on that very evening, but time ran out........how convenient. I'd like to see proof that they just bought that safety chain. From the media, and I'm not one to believe everything in the media, but it sounds like these folks have been chronically non-attentive to the whereabouts of these kids.... and what's the deal with the 15 minute bathroom trip and continuing to call their names and AFTER 15 minutes "she gets up" - gets up from what, the toilet - the bathtub - the floor???? Huh? I'm betting she was one of two things: Either in the bed asleep or on the Internet or some play station game, and not wanting to pay attention to the kids. If that sounds cruel, I'm sorry. She's got to live with the fact that her children are dead, and although she may not have wished anything like this to happen, it happened.....and if she was chronically non-attentive, then she brought it on herself.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I still don't understand that concept. how do you "forget" your child is in the car, ever?


But back to the case at hand,
I can't wrap my head around leaving them alone for 15 minutes, regardless of the reason, when my children were active toddlers, no way I was allowed to sit anywhere for 15 minutes during the day, not even the restroom
they could well have worked their way to that pond and gone in on their own
but I have to say someone is responsible... or perhaps noone was and thats why this has come to light

I don't understand the concept either, but here in Texas, it happens a few times every summer.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Jeana, could you point me to the article that talks about the weekly visits? I've heard that, but can't locate the article. I'm wondering--that's 104 visits! And yet there wasn't evidence to remove the children????

Does Child Protective Services visit to TEACH people how to be better parents? Or were each of these visits due to reports of neglect? If they'd been reported 104 times, then that's a BIG PROBLEM.

No, I didn't see an article. I heard it on the television last night. I'm sure there will be more in the future about this whole mess.

 

[Meech]

Special Agent Gary Nicholson , of the Georgia Bureau of Investigation , said there appeared to be no signs of foul play, but he added that doesn't mean Jonah Payne, 3, and his sister, Nicole, 2, necessarily wandered from their home on Lake Drive and fell into the 1½-acre pond where they were found Monday

I don't have a reason not to believe it, but I don't have a reason to believe it either," he said. "We have not completed the investigation yet."
Further tests will be performed on the bodies, and the GBI is still interviewing witnesses to determine the exact circumstances that led to their deaths, the agent said.



Full Story
http://www.augustachronicle.com/stories/042705/met_0427kidsfolo.shtml

 

[LovelyPigeon]

Here's the article in today's Atlanta Journal Constitution about the weekly visits from DFCS for the past several years:
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/0405/27warren.html

As for the time element of 5 minutes or 15 minutes, if either or both of the parents are mentally impaired then they probably don't have a concept of time that lets them accurately determine whether a period of time lasted 5 minutes or 15 minutes.

DFCS says they spent a lot of time trying to teach parenting and housekeeping skills to Kain and Payne, but it appears that their efforts were in vain. I don't think Kain and Payne are capable of parenting and housekeeping on their own.

 

[StillTrouble74]

Jeana

It happened here, last summer, far too many times
they let one mother off because this was a "tragic accident"
she was physically exhausted and just forgot
in the meantime, I cant even imagine what those poor children go through
and it irritated me to no end that she wasnt punished in some way for that