GA - Jonah, 3, & Nicole Payne, 2, Warrenton, 23 April 2005

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

From Meech's link:

Autopsies say two children drowned 04/27/05

... DFCS had been making weekly visits to the family's home the past two years to teach Ms. Kain and her fiancÈ, Dennis Payne, parenting skills...

Mr. Young said that at no point did DFCS plan to remove Nicole or Jonah from their parents' care...

 

[Julie]

Thanks for the link LP, I wonder what neighbor it was that the dad got in an altercation with and what it was about?

 

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Drowned toddlers' family had history with DFCS | ajc.com

The sanitation pond is managed by Operations Management International. The city pumps raw sewage into the 1 1/2-acre pond, where it is treated and released into a nearby creek. The company, based in Englewood, Colo., manages wastewater facilities for governments and industry internationally, including about 20 ponds in Georgia, according to OMI spokeswoman Susan Mays.

OMI has managed the Warrenton facility since 1997, Mays said. She declined to comment on the police reports about gaps in the fence.

James Jones, an attorney speaking Tuesday for the parents, said the couple was overcome with grief.

"Literally, I cannot speak with them for over a couple of minutes before they lapse back into tears. Sobbing," he said. "Just sobbing."

 

[AutumnBorn]

Great. A lawyer. Doesn't matter how we're blaming the mother. That lawyer will make sure she's duly compensated for her stupidity...I mean, for the loss of her children.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Jeana

It happened here, last summer, far too many times
they let one mother off because this was a "tragic accident"
she was physically exhausted and just forgot
in the meantime, I cant even imagine what those poor children go through
and it irritated me to no end that she wasnt punished in some way for that

Unfortunately, its getting to be that time here in Texas, so I hate to say it, but it will start again soon. Supposed to be in the 90s by Friday. I've got three kids and thankfully - even given my mortal failures - they've all made it past toddlerdom. Of course, I've made some of the same mistakes that other parents make, but I'm just one of those overly cautious parents - even now with my youngest being 10 and my oldest being 25. :innocent:

 

[Meech]

Unfortunately, its getting to be that time here in Texas, so I hate to say it, but it will start again soon. Supposed to be in the 90s by Friday. I've got three kids and thankfully - even given my mortal failures - they've all made it past toddlerdom. Of course, I've made some of the same mistakes that other parents make, but I'm just one of those overly cautious parents - even now with my youngest being 10 and my oldest being 25. :innocent:

I feel ya Jeana(DP) my mother is the same way and I'm 36 years old..I never understood until I had a child myself.. Even now leaving her house and taking a 20 mins drive too mine..She say makes sure you call me as soon as you get it..
And I'm sure I'll be that way also.

 

[tezi]

I have one of those stupid mistakes.....In December 1990, I had just given birth to my third child. I had a son who was 4, and a daughter 2, and the new baby girl. The new one was less than a week old, and I had to go get my husband from work. The baby was already in her carseat in the house, so I took the other two out to the car and put them in their carseats. Totally forgetting that I had a new baby! :doh: She was still in her carseat in the living room, I get into the car and start to leave. My four year old doesn't say a word. It's the two year old screaming, "The new baby is in the house!" Mom, you forgetted Incole! (Her name is Nicole, but they both said Incole) OMG, I almost died. I went back in, and she is sleeping soundly. I had to have him get a ride home with someone else, so I could have my nervous breakdown. After that, I counted heads everytime we moved even if it was from room to room!

You talk about feeling like a worthless parent! We laugh now, but it took me years to laugh about it.

And when #4 came along, I had three in diapers and I swear I never left the house without proper adult supervision for myself!!!!!

 

[Jeana (DP)]

And when #4 came along, I had three in diapers and I swear I never left the house without proper adult supervision for myself!!!!!

Tezi, you can't see me right now, but I bow down to you in awe! You're amazing. I think I'd either be in the lunatic asylum or bald from hair pulling had I gone through that!!!!

 

[tezi]

Tezi, you can't see me right now, but I bow down to you in awe! You're amazing. I think I'd either be in the lunatic asylum or bald from hair pulling had I gone through that!!!!

It was alot easier when they were babies....My oldest daughter has me pulling out my hair now.

That smilie is me Jeana! And too think just a few short years ago, I wanted to try for another one. Thank gosh I got a puppy instead!

 

[Jeana (DP)]

It was alot easier when they were babies....My oldest daughter has me pulling out my hair now.

That smilie is me Jeana! And too think just a few short years ago, I wanted to try for another one. Thank gosh I got a puppy instead!

I always have the feeling that I'll die young like my own mother did and won't be around when my two youngest grow up. I always catch myself trying to teach them lessons that maybe they'll remember when they get older. Last Easter we made 6 Easter baskets for these kids we adopted "financially" last fall. I made them promise to continue the tradition when they grew up, and probably drone on and on and on about other "lessons" too. I think I'm driving them nuts.

 

[tezi]

I always have the feeling that I'll die young like my own mother did and won't be around when my two youngest grow up. I always catch myself trying to teach them lessons that maybe they'll remember when they get older. Last Easter we made 6 Easter baskets for these kids we adopted "financially" last fall. I made them promise to continue the tradition when they grew up, and probably drone on and on and on about other "lessons" too. I think I'm driving them nuts.

You are instilling great values in them Jeana! My mom was only 56 when she died. She died not knowing my youngest, never laid eyes on him. But, that's a whole other sorid (sp) tale.

 

[Miss Daisey]

I agree. I briefly tuned into Nancy Grace last night and got the general impression that she and her panel thinks more investigation needs to be done. It sounds as if they think the autopsy and crime scene investigation could not have been accomplished in such a short period of time.

Shoot, Nan....those kids wouldn't have necessarily been harmed by their mom. If they were in the habit of wondering around alone...especially in the woods behind their home, anybody could have thrown them into the pond to drown with no evidence of injury whatever.
Once they were out of the house, the mom probably doesn't really know how long they were gone before she started looking for them. Whether she's "not all there" or not, the evidence clearly shows she wasn't all that attentive of her kids.
We already know (it) happens when kids are where they shouldn't be....and even where they SHOULD be...safely in their beds.
I want to know what the cops are finding in the woods and around that pond, whether there's anything to indicate someone was camped out down there.

 

[tezi]

Shoot, Nan....those kids wouldn't have necessarily been harmed by their mom. If they were in the habit of wondering around alone...especially in the woods behind their home, anybody could have thrown them into the pond to drown with no evidence of injury whatever.
Once they were out of the house, the mom probably doesn't really know how long they were gone before she started looking for them. Whether she's "not all there" or not, the evidence clearly shows she wasn't all that attentive of her kids.
We already know (it) happens when kids are where they shouldn't be....and even where they SHOULD be...safely in their beds.
I want to know what the cops are finding in the woods and around that pond, whether there's anything to indicate someone was camped out down there.

You wrote what I have been thinking. Something just doesn't add up in this case.

 

[kgeaux]

No, I didn't see an article. I heard it on the television last night. I'm sure there will be more in the future about this whole mess.

Thanks, Jeana. I was driving myself nuts re-tracing links trying to find an article. I'm sure you're right, we'll hear more about it.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Thanks, Jeana. I was driving myself nuts re-tracing links trying to find an article. I'm sure you're right, we'll hear more about it.

Did you get a chance to see Nancy Grace's show? That's where I heard it. I think I've watched her enough that I can almost read her mind. LOL If that's possible, I think she's on the same track that some of us are here. Maybe not outright "murder" but seriously negligent on the part of mom.

 

[kgeaux]

Here's the article in today's Atlanta Journal Constitution about the weekly visits from DFCS for the past several years:
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/0405/27warren.html

As for the time element of 5 minutes or 15 minutes, if either or both of the parents are mentally impaired then they probably don't have a concept of time that lets them accurately determine whether a period of time lasted 5 minutes or 15 minutes.

DFCS says they spent a lot of time trying to teach parenting and housekeeping skills to Kain and Payne, but it appears that their efforts were in vain. I don't think Kain and Payne are capable of parenting and housekeeping on their own.

Thank you for posting this!

 

[tezi]

Weekly visits? That means that they were under intensive supervision. I don't think that she knew the difference between five minutes or five hours. And it's sad, because those two kids paid the price.

 

[kgeaux]

Drowned toddlers' family had history with DFCS | ajc.com

The sanitation pond is managed by Operations Management International. The city pumps raw sewage into the 1 1/2-acre pond, where it is treated and released into a nearby creek. The company, based in Englewood, Colo., manages wastewater facilities for governments and industry internationally, including about 20 ponds in Georgia, according to OMI spokeswoman Susan Mays.

OMI has managed the Warrenton facility since 1997, Mays said. She declined to comment on the police reports about gaps in the fence.

James Jones, an attorney speaking Tuesday for the parents, said the couple was overcome with grief.

"Literally, I cannot speak with them for over a couple of minutes before they lapse back into tears. Sobbing," he said. "Just sobbing."

I may be one of a few, but if I were being investigated for anything, you can bet I'd have a lawyer. It is one of my constitutional rights and I'd exercise it. I am not saying that I would not cooperate with LE, because I would. But I'd have a lawyer looking out for me.

These parents may be looking to sue, and I'm not sure how I feel about that. That county surely did not do even a minimal amount of upkeep of that fence, and that retention pond is right by homes. That fence should have been in pristine condition. I think the county is culpable--they may not be the only guilty parties, but they sure share some of the culpability.

 

[kgeaux]

Did you get a chance to see Nancy Grace's show? That's where I heard it. I think I've watched her enough that I can almost read her mind. LOL If that's possible, I think she's on the same track that some of us are here. Maybe not outright "murder" but seriously negligent on the part of mom.

I watched part of it, but kept getting interupted. I must have missed this part. I love Nancy's facial expressions, especially when she is disbelieving or doubting something.....I wish I could make that face.

 

[less0305]

I have one of those stupid mistakes.....In December 1990, I had just given birth to my third child. I had a son who was 4, and a daughter 2, and the new baby girl. The new one was less than a week old, and I had to go get my husband from work. The baby was already in her carseat in the house, so I took the other two out to the car and put them in their carseats. Totally forgetting that I had a new baby! :doh: She was still in her carseat in the living room, I get into the car and start to leave. My four year old doesn't say a word. It's the two year old screaming, "The new baby is in the house!" Mom, you forgetted Incole! (Her name is Nicole, but they both said Incole) OMG, I almost died. I went back in, and she is sleeping soundly. I had to have him get a ride home with someone else, so I could have my nervous breakdown. After that, I counted heads everytime we moved even if it was from room to room!

You talk about feeling like a worthless parent! We laugh now, but it took me years to laugh about it.

And when #4 came along, I had three in diapers and I swear I never left the house without proper adult supervision for myself!!!!!

A friend of mine had a newborn, and three small children. She went to the bank, put the baby in its carrier up on the stand where you write up your deposit slips and such, she moved to the cashier, did her banking, and left.....leaving her baby in its carrier still on that stand where you write up your deposit slips. When she got home, the bank had left a message on her answering machine, "You left a deposit that we just can't accept." She felt like an idiot!!!!!! NONE of the other three kids said a word, and she didn't even give it a thought until she got home and checked her answering machine. But you know....our lives are sooooooo full and moms are sometimes sooooo frazzled. We're human, I guess.

BUT those were certainly one time incidents......not repeated and chronic non-attentiveness to the children.