GUILTY GA - Jorelys Rivera, 7, Canton, 2 Dec 2011 - #3

[abagale]

Is it possible the dogs didn't pick up on the scent, because she hadn't been place their yet? Just a thought.

 

[FrayedKnot]

FWIW and JMHO and all dat der - I honestly believe that the roommate is a vital, key witness and provided LE with ALOT of information concering RB - possibly telling LE where his clothes were and, if the roommate was home when RB got back to the apt - could definitely convey to LE what RB's demeanor was at that time.

I think the roommate is laying low and that LE is quite aware of where he is and why.

But that, again is JMHO

ITA and my first thought when the comments about the "missing" roommate were first mentioned was that LE likely had him in some form of protective custody and that he was cooperating with them.

This might also explain the speedy arrest as a roommate would not only be privy to the suspect's comings and goings, but possibly would be able to provide material evidence from their shared apartment.

It's my understanding that LE can keep certain info "under wraps" from the MSM and if they are either holding the roommate or just have him under close watch and in a safe place, they would have very good reason to keep that info quiet until they complete that portion of their investigation.

 

[FrayedKnot]

I heard the neighbor Heather say on NG that the LE searched the garbage bin several times before they found her body. Also, and this is not pleasant, I would think that after 3 days there was be definite smells of decomp either from the garbage or the apartment. So, I am baffled too. jmo

Is it possible that if her body were wrapped in several layers of plastic, and maybe even covered in lime (sorry for even typing that) that the smell of human decomp might be masked?

It's a long shot, I know. It would mean RB having lime on hand, cooler temps slowing decomp, and dogs as well as less sensitive humans not picking up on the odor, or mistaking it for regular icky trash smell.

But you have to wonder how noone smelled anything, and if she WASN'T in that dumpster until later, how did he get her in there whilst under surveillance?

MOO. And oink.

 

[Dr. Know?]

A cadaver dog would have picked up on her. I wonder if part of his "calculating & planning" included bleach and lime? hmmm Lime will cover up the smell of decompsition and can fool a cadaver dog. (Oriah, chime in if you are around!)

The type of lime that sanitizes is calcium oxide or calcium hydroxide. AKA Quick lime or barn lime. I wonder if he learned that from George Anthony when people were commenting on him putting lime on his lawn?

Just a thought.

ETA, great minds and all Frayed!!

 

[Crosby87]

So did the family have a presser today? I thought it was supposed to be at 10AM?

LE advised the family to cancel it.

 

[abagale]

Is it possible that RB took the body back to his apartment to clean it up. Would that explain why the cadaver dogs didn't find it.

 

[abagale]

Yes, RB followed the Caylee Anthony case closely. So he used what he learned to carry out his plan. I just can't imagine how soon he put the body in the dumpster. That is the question?

 

[KMouse]

Is it possible that if her body were wrapped in several layers of plastic, and maybe even covered in lime (sorry for even typing that) that the smell of human decomp might be masked?

It's a long shot, I know. It would mean RB having lime on hand, cooler temps slowing decomp, and dogs as well as less sensitive humans not picking up on the odor, or mistaking it for regular icky trash smell.

But you have to wonder how noone smelled anything, and if she WASN'T in that dumpster until later, how did he get her in there whilst under surveillance?

MOO. And oink.

FYI lime slows decomposition.

What was the temperature on those days?

 

[KMouse]

Yes, RB followed the Caylee Anthony case closely. So he used what he learned to carry out his plan. I just can't imagine how soon he put the body in the dumpster. That is the question?

We don't know if RB followed the Anthony murder closely. All we have is his one comment in July.

 

[mck16]

Is it possible that if her body were wrapped in several layers of plastic, and maybe even covered in lime (sorry for even typing that) that the smell of human decomp might be masked?

It's a long shot, I know. It would mean RB having lime on hand, cooler temps slowing decomp, and dogs as well as less sensitive humans not picking up on the odor, or mistaking it for regular icky trash smell.

But you have to wonder how noone smelled anything, and if she WASN'T in that dumpster until later, how did he get her in there whilst under surveillance?

MOO. And oink.

I think lime would destroy her flesh, but I do think he could have turned the ac way down in the apartment to slow down decomp. Either is awful to think of. jmo

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Is it possible that RB took the body back to his apartment to clean it up. Would that explain why the cadaver dogs didn't find it.

Yes, or left it in the vacant apt.

 

[tlcya]

the link below is about putrification as it relates to human decomp. Putrification is the stage of decomp in which the odor we have all heard about and discussed begins.

Those who do not have the stomach for such clinical descriptions of decomposition should probably think twice before reading the link. I will summarize in as vague a terms as possible for those folks.

According to my google searches, temparatures and the method of storage of the body do play a large role in when this process begins. As do insect involvement with the corpse. In general, the putrification stage is reached at around 36 hours after death. This could take longer in cooler temperatures and be faster in tropical climes. Insect involvement can speed this process as well. As this process occurs, the bloat stage is also occurring. Best I can figure out the bloat and the odor are happening simultaneously.

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/the-rate-of-decay-in-a-corpse.html

So if she was missing and killed sometime around 6:30 Friday evening, and placed in the dumpster and compacted sometime thereafter, I would not expect there to be a huge, unmistakably odor of decomp yet. If my calculations and understanding of this technical material is correct, the putricifcation process which brings the odor into the equation would have just been beginning on Sunday.

Perhaps that is even one of the things RB was investigating around the dumpster Sunday night (if the witness can be believed on that). Maybe he was trying to discern if she could be smelled in there.

 

[Dr. Know?]

I read that quick lime actually slows decomposition down.

 

[Knox]

I've lived in Georgia since 1987, and can not remember either a crime of this heinous nature happening in GA, let alone happening to a child. I believe Ryan wins the award for the most inhuman act ever carried out in the state of Georgia, IMO.

I remember the first big crime that happened after we moved here (I'm originally a Yank) was Sara Tokars. Sara's hubby had her killed in front of their children, iirc ... and Fred Tokars was a big time attorney here. I remember his commercials on TV.

http://www.policemag.com/Channel/Patrol/Articles/2007/04/Case-Study.aspx

Not to take anything away from the horror of what happened to sweet little Jorelys.

Google, Lauren Giddings. She was murdered and then dismembered in June in Macon. She had just graduated from Law School and was preparing to take the bar exam. Horrible, horrible crime. My heart breaks for her parents, they have shown such grace and character.

 

[ClaireNC]

(Respectfully snipped) On Monday, there was traffic and helicopters, and (big TY to cherokee co. schools) Monday afternoon the school bus dropped every child off at the parent's door instead of the bus stop (where of course I was waiting like most parents)

Will I attend? I want to, but I do have 1 elementary and 1 middle school little girls who have been devastated by this case, they have been making cards for the siblings and we have been to the complex to leave flowers as well, and I plan to feel them out this PM to decide for sure if we will attend the service or vigil. There is such a fine line between wanting your children to appreciate the danger out there, and wanting to protect them from the pain of it at the same time. We are a bilingual family and I help w a local charity that caters to the spanish speaking community, so I am planning on some outreach that involves basic child security guidelines...I admit that there is a false sense of security in many local communities, because it is COMMON to see unsupervised children in area playgrounds and parks, most neighborhoods and apartments here have both. Note I say common, not acceptable. Sorry for long post, but the answer is I am not sure if we will attend, we have been right in the middle of this all week now and I just want my children close to me and comfortable either way.

Welcome marazul! Your comments about your daughters going to the same school brought tears to my eyes. While this horrible event was one little girl and one perverted monster, the impact is so much larger. It really does take a community to raise a child and it is really impressive how the community has come together for this new angel.

As for your daughters, I definitely think you should ask them if they want to attend a vigil or even tomorrow's public service. While it will be painful in the moment, it will help them to have a closure. It will also show them how many people in the community care about the children. This is especially true for your daughter in middle-school, but also for the one in elementary school if she is old enough to understand. As a Mom, if my children did not directly know Jorelys, I would lean toward attending a vigil with them. If they know her, attend the service.

There is a reason why society created such rituals.

Edit to add: Wow..that is really great that the county had the school buses drop each child off at their own homes on Monday!

 

[Evan's Mom]

I agree with tlcox but want to add that quite often the red flags are only truly obvious in hindsight. Scott Peterson and Casey Anthony had no criminal record and a lot of initial support. It was only after the fact that everything was laid out and came together like a toddler's puzzle. But if you asked the people who knew them before if they would ever do anything like this? I'll bet you'd get virtually 100% NO.



I have lived here for 32 years and been a crime junkie virtually all of that time. I can't think of a single crime that is similar. On NCMEC, there is not a single child listed under 14 who is not believed to be in the custody of a family member.

As for unsolved child murders, Levi Frady was killed in 1997 not all that far from Jorelys. But it was 14 years ago, he was a white male, and he was disposed of in a completely different manner.

Honestly, since Wayne Williams, I don't remember anything that even comes close to this nightmare. Am I forgetting someone, GA peeps?

I believe you have them all covered.
I could have sworn there was a girl around 12 that went missing around Hall county after putting her horse away a couple of months ago, but when I tried to research it, I couldn't find anything on her at all.

I was around 9 when Wayne Williams was busy in Atlanta. We lived near the airport in Mountain View before it was bought out by the city and I clearly remember the fear that all of the kids felt. My mom wouldn't even let me watch the news after so many had gone missing. It didn't matter that I was white and he only killed black kids. We all knew there was a monster on the loose and it was terrifying.

 

[marazul]

Remember that this type of compacter/dumpster has a full week's worth of garbage from 300+ residents, and once it passes the "dump chute" and goes into the compacter container, it is somewhat 'sealed' and not in open air, so I can see how a dog would not alert to this.

OT: The first thing that made me think "apartment complex employee" was the fact that the perp took the risk of moving her body from the crime scene to the trash. Had it been a passerby, or even a resident, it seems that he would have just left her body in the vacant apartment and it would have been discovered there. Even though LE wasn't called until after 7pm, we can assume the mother and "teenage babysitter" and even other neighbors were out looking for her, so the perp took a huge risk in moving the body. The only reason I can come up with for him to be willing to take that risk is if he is someone who would be automatically suspected if the body had been found in the vacant apartment...and who would be the first suspect if she had been found there? Apartment complex staff.

 

[KMouse]

the link below is about putrification as it relates to human decomp. Putrification is the stage of decomp in which the odor we have all heard about and discussed begins.

Those who do not have the stomach for such clinical descriptions of decomposition should probably think twice before reading the link. I will summarize in as vague a terms as possible for those folks.

According to my google searches, temparatures and the method of storage of the body do play a large role in when this process begins. As do insect involvement with the corpse. In general, the putrification stage is reached at around 36 hours after death. This could take longer in cooler temperatures and be faster in tropical climes. Insect involvement can speed this process as well. As this process occurs, the bloat stage is also occurring. Best I can figure out the bloat and the odor are happening simultaneously.

http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/the-rate-of-decay-in-a-corpse.html

So if she was missing and killed sometime around 6:30 Friday evening, and placed in the dumpster and compacted sometime thereafter, I would not expect there to be a huge, unmistakably odor of decomp yet. If my calculations and understanding of this technical material is correct, the putricifcation process which brings the odor into the equation would have just been beginning on Sunday.

Perhaps that is even one of the things RB was investigating around the dumpster Sunday night (if the witness can be believed on that). Maybe he was trying to discern if she could be smelled in there.

Decomposition also depends on things like loss of blood. Loss of blood slows down decomp.

 

[mck16]

Decomposition also depends on things like loss of blood. Loss of blood slows down decomp.

Blood also smells of decomp. So I would think the mattress, etc. would be putting out an odor. jmo

 

[marazul]

Welcome marazul! Your comments about your daughters going to the same school brought tears to my eyes. While this horrible event was one little girl and one perverted monster, the impact is so much larger. It really does take a community to raise a child and it is really impressive how the community has come together for this new angel.

As for your daughters, I definitely think you should ask them if they want to attend a vigil or even tomorrow's public service. While it will be painful in the moment, it will help them to have a closure. It will also show them how many people in the community care about the children. This is especially true for your daughter in middle-school, but also for the one in elementary school if she is old enough to understand. As a Mom, if my children did not directly know Jorelys, I would lean toward attending a vigil with them. If they know her, attend the service.

There is a reason why society created such rituals.

Edit to add: Wow..that is really great that the county had the school buses drop each child off at their own homes on Monday!

I have one home now and one on the way home, still undecided...weather we attend or not, they have been very aware of the community care for sure. Both ELE and MS have been asking kids to wear pink and bring in donations for the fund set up by bank...we have huge flashing electronic traffic signs on the road directing traffic for shuttle parking and announcing her vigil and service times. It would be impossible for anyone in this community to be unaware. I guess at this point I am waiting to see what both kids say and hear my husband's opinion as well.