GA - Kendrick Johnson, 17, Suspicious Death, Jan. 10/11, 2013, #2

[hambirg]

He was a missing person for 10 or so hours.


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But that is not evidence. The same is true if it was an accident. Evidence and possibility are not the same, thank gawd! Every time someone goes missing it's "possible" that they were abducted by aliens or eaten by Bigfoot, but I need evidence. Sooooo. . .again. . . .where is the evidence that Kendrick was assaulted and what is the motive?

 

[hambirg]

Preponderance of evidence - officials skipping several protocols, contaminating, losing evidence etc .. so that crucial aspects of the science and forensics were destroyed. This casts reasonable doubt on it as either an accident or a crime. Handy ..Maybe the tampering is a double edged sword. If it was an accident wouldn't they have preserved the evidence better ?

Rip Kj


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BBM. . .Preponderance of the evidence. . . what? That some mistakes were made? Who is your POI? Where is the over whelming evidence that points to a suspect? There are cases here on this forum that have an obvious suspect. . .they are the most frustrating! I'm just not seeing it here. The "suspicious" kid with a back pack appeared much too late to be responsible. The other kids on tape with Kendrick in the gym seemed to be going about their normal business. I apologize because I came to this case late, but have we seen the footage after Kendrick appears and then walks off camera in the old gym? What if all of those kids are accounted for (read: exited the gym) shortly after that? Then what? Exactly which kid are you going to go after, because there is a "possibility" of foul play, but yet no evidence of it?

I feel for his parents. No one sends their kid to school and expects them not to come home. BUT. . .lacking any evidence otherwise, this looks like a horrible freak accident. His parents may NEVER accept that! Are we willing to lock up some high school kid with little to no evidence for the rest of their life just to appease the parents? Good gawd, I hope not!

 

[Tawny]

BBM. . .Preponderance of the evidence. . . what? That some mistakes were made? Who is your POI? Where is the over whelming evidence that points to a suspect? There are cases here on this forum that have an obvious suspect. . .they are the most frustrating! I'm just not seeing it here. The "suspicious" kid with a back pack appeared much too late to be responsible. The other kids on tape with Kendrick in the gym seemed to be going about their normal business. I apologize because I came to this case late, but have we seen the footage after Kendrick appears and then walks off camera in the old gym? What if all of those kids are accounted for (read: exited the gym) shortly after that? Then what? Exactly which kid are you going to go after, because there is a "possibility" of foul play, but yet no evidence of it?

I feel for his parents. No one sends their kid to school and expects them not to come home. BUT. . .lacking any evidence otherwise, this looks like a horrible freak accident. His parents may NEVER accept that! Are we willing to lock up some high school kid with little to no evidence for the rest of their lives just to appease the parents? Good gawd, I hope not!

We did see that footage and each kid was accounted for, having left the gym and gone on to class.

 

[hambirg]

Thanks Tawny. I am not surprised and that is pretty much what I expected. It just all appeared too normal, kwim?

 

[Tawny]

Thanks Tawny. I am not surprised and that is pretty much what I expected. It just all appeared too normal, kwim?

I agree. I honestly don't understand how we have no suspect, no motive, no murder weapon, and things as simple as how many teachers were at the funeral are indicative of a cover up of some sort. I really don't understand. :twocents:

 

[hambirg]

I agree. I honestly don't understand how we have no suspect, no motive, no murder weapon, and things as simple as how many teachers were at the funeral are indicative of a cover up of some sort. I really don't understand. :twocents:

BTW. . .haven't seen it mentioned, but being someone that taught for many years. . . .Saturday of a three day weekend. Uh. . .in a school with 3000 students, unless he was one of their students and they felt very close to him, they were off enjoying their long weekend. That seems horrible, but it's the truth. Teachers spend so much of their time, and even their free time, devoted to their students and classrooms, that people sometimes forget that they have lives and families of their own outside of school.

I also suspect they may have been advised by the district legal team to stay away. Sad but true.

 

[dlc]

Georgia Bureau of Investigation has stated they stand by the autopsy done by their Forensic Physician and the autopsy Peer Review where no blunt force trauma was noted. That is good enough for me. Some no name Doc from Florida comes to Georgia and knows more then the GBI. No, not possible. oWhay

Here's a link to an interesting article from Sunday's Atlanta Journal-Constitution. It addresses a different problem within the system, but nonetheless contains some relevant material:

http://www.ajc.com/ap/ap/georgia/newspaper-deaths-labeled-suicide-without-exam/nb8Hm/

IMO JMO

 

[Karmady]

Here's a link to an interesting article from Sunday's Atlanta Journal-Constitution. It addresses a different problem within the system, but nonetheless contains some relevant material:

http://www.ajc.com/ap/ap/georgia/newspaper-deaths-labeled-suicide-without-exam/nb8Hm/

IMO JMO

I don't think it's relevant, and i also don't agree that the article addresses a "problem." I agree with the local professionals who say at the link:

Dr. Kris Sperry, Georgia's chief medical examiner, said he's not concerned that the lack of autopsies for many suspected suicides may leave a trace of uncertainty.

In most cases, he said, "everything surrounding the death is very clear. It is vanishingly rare that a suicide turns out to be something other than what it's portrayed as being."

and

Neil Sims, a funeral director in Douglas, has been the coroner in Coffee County in southern Georgia since 1984. He said he consults with law enforcement and the state medical examiner's office before deciding whether to ask for autopsies for apparent suicides. He said he looks at a variety of factors.

"It's pretty obvious, usually," Sims said.

It would be a huge waste of resources to autopsy obvious suicides, imo.

 

[iSleuth]

Rest In Peace Kendrick Johnson

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[Snoods]

I don't know how to bring a post over from another thread, so I'm quoting myself here. The bold post is one of my first posts about Kendrick's case when I was convinced that this was a murder. I was outraged for the family.

So his parents are pushing hard for his case to be re-opened. He was found upside down in a rolled up gym mat with head trauma. Detectives rule it an accident. Wha?????

All my information about the case at that point was from MSM; I'd seen the horrific pictures of Kendrick side by side with Emmett Till, and I was livid that this was ruled an accident.

My opinion has changed completely. I feel duped that I allowed myself to become inflamed and manipulated by the press and others affiliated with the family. I now have no doubt this was a tragic accident.

The comment made by the Johnson family "We will not stop until someone pays" is troublesome. I hope this doesn't turn into another "Morgan Ingram" type crusade against innocent children. The kids in that case had their lives turned upside down by false murder accusations made by the Ingrams, who could not accept their child committed suicide or had an accidental overdose.

I feel so badly for the Johnson's and their grief must be indescribable. I hope they can somehow come to terms with what really happened.

All IMO of course.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I don't think it's relevant, and i also don't agree that the article addresses a "problem." I agree with the local professionals who say at the link:

Dr. Kris Sperry, Georgia's chief medical examiner, said he's not concerned that the lack of autopsies for many suspected suicides may leave a trace of uncertainty.

In most cases, he said, "everything surrounding the death is very clear. It is vanishingly rare that a suicide turns out to be something other than what it's portrayed as being."

and

Neil Sims, a funeral director in Douglas, has been the coroner in Coffee County in southern Georgia since 1984. He said he consults with law enforcement and the state medical examiner's office before deciding whether to ask for autopsies for apparent suicides. He said he looks at a variety of factors.

"It's pretty obvious, usually," Sims said.

It would be a huge waste of resources to autopsy obvious suicides, imo.

I completely disagree as I can think of a few cases off my head that were labeled suicides that were indeed murders. Even one getting away with murder disguised as suicide is too many.. So in my mind, I now have more reason to distrust this guys findings.. He just assumes and does not autopsy them to make sure.. Bad form.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I don't know how to bring a post over from another thread, so I'm quoting myself here. The bold post is one of my first posts about Kendrick's case when I was convinced that this was a murder. I was outraged for the family.

So his parents are pushing hard for his case to be re-opened. He was found upside down in a rolled up gym mat with head trauma. Detectives rule it an accident. Wha?????

All my information about the case at that point was from MSM; I'd seen the horrific pictures of Kendrick side by side with Emmett Till, and I was livid that this was ruled an accident.

My opinion has changed completely. I feel duped that I allowed myself to become inflamed and manipulated by the press and others affiliated with the family. I now have no doubt this was a tragic accident.

The comment made by the Johnson family "We will not stop until someone pays" is troublesome. I hope this doesn't turn into another "Morgan Ingram" type crusade against innocent children. The kids in that case had their lives turned upside down by false murder accusations made by the Ingrams, who could not accept their child committed suicide or had an accidental overdose.

I feel so badly for the Johnson's and their grief must be indescribable. I hope they can somehow come to terms with what really happened.

All IMO of course.

I don't care about MSM or even the family's comments. I understand the MSM need to sensationalize, and the Familys fear that someone killed their baby and is getting away with it. I experienced this first hand. My niece died of a heroine overdose and her mother and grandparents on my Dh's side, Just would not accept it, They insisted someone murdered her. It was tragic and painful and in the autopsy we learned she was pregnant.
It is devastating to lose a child. It is something that no one can comprehend if you have not been there and also if you have a child who is a good kid that ends up dead in a very bizarre way, I am sure it makes it even harder to accept it. So for them I have nothing but grace. They need to get through this any way they can and the authorities have not made it easy for them to accept accident with their mistakes and fast assumptions.

It is a bizarre horrible death. He most likely suffocated to death hanging there, with the bruising noted in the second autopsy, I believe that he could have been assaulted and then stuffed in there as a joke. I don't believe anyone meant to kill him. I think it was some prank gone wrong. But still someone was there and should be made to be accountable for their part. JMO.

I have no connection to this child, But to me this is the most logical explanation at this point.

 

[Karmady]

I completely disagree as I can think of a few cases off my head that were labeled suicides that were indeed murders. Even one getting away with murder disguised as suicide is too many.. So in my mind, I now have more reason to distrust this guys findings.. He just assumes and does not autopsy them to make sure.. Bad form.

Well, no, he doesn't "just assume." He says it's usually obvious by the circumstances. And if the family isn't kicking up a fuss (which would be one of the circumstances) you wouldn't autopsy an obvious suicide? jmo

I've read some of the things he's said about this case, and now this article. He seems like a reasonable and compassionate person who has a strong grip on the reality of particular situations rather than treating them all like he's on an episode of CSI. jmo

 

[dlc]

I don't think it's relevant, and i also don't agree that the article addresses a "problem." I agree with the local professionals who say at the link:

Dr. Kris Sperry, Georgia's chief medical examiner, said he's not concerned that the lack of autopsies for many suspected suicides may leave a trace of uncertainty.

In most cases, he said, "everything surrounding the death is very clear. It is vanishingly rare that a suicide turns out to be something other than what it's portrayed as being."

and

Neil Sims, a funeral director in Douglas, has been the coroner in Coffee County in southern Georgia since 1984. He said he consults with law enforcement and the state medical examiner's office before deciding whether to ask for autopsies for apparent suicides. He said he looks at a variety of factors.

"It's pretty obvious, usually," Sims said.

It would be a huge waste of resources to autopsy obvious suicides, imo.

First sentence BBM.

Well, okay then. It may not matter, or be "relevant," to some people, in terms of their loved ones, but it does matter to me, and many others. And of course the Chief Medical Examiner, (and "local professionals"), is not going to criticize the system -- my goodness! The AJC is no longer the paper it once was, but I do believe that much of the investigative reporting is still commendable. The articles also says:

"Elected coroners, who often lack training in medicine or forensic pathology, attributed deaths to a variety of causes, including gunshot wounds, hanging, suffocation with plastic bags, helium inhalation and self-mutilation.
In 69 cases, officials said suicides were caused by drug overdoses, but never verified that with laboratory tests. (BBM)

Some states require autopsies in most suicide cases, and many forensic experts say they should be performed in any death that raises suspicion."

Now I would bet money that the very same people who were disparaging Georgia Coroners on this forum a few weeks ago, as they weren't happy with the Coroner's comments in Mr. Jackson's case, are now going to say that this criticism of the system, and of elected coroners, is just fine and dandy.

JMO, IMO, etc., etc.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

First sentence BBM.

Well, okay then. It may not matter, or be "relevant," to some people, in terms of their loved ones, but it does matter to me, and many others. And of course the Chief Medical Examiner, (and "local professionals"), is not going to criticize the system -- my goodness! The AJC is no longer the paper it once was, but I do believe that much of the investigative reporting is still commendable. The articles also says:

"Elected coroners, who often lack training in medicine or forensic pathology, attributed deaths to a variety of causes, including gunshot wounds, hanging, suffocation with plastic bags, helium inhalation and self-mutilation.
In 69 cases, officials said suicides were caused by drug overdoses, but never verified that with laboratory tests. (BBM)

Some states require autopsies in most suicide cases, and many forensic experts say they should be performed in any death that raises suspicion."

Now I would bet money that the very same people who were disparaging Georgia Coroners on this forum a few weeks ago, as they weren't happy with the Coroner's comments in Mr. Jackson's case, are now going to say that this criticism of the system, and of elected coroners, is just fine and dandy.

JMO, IMO, etc., etc.

As far as this case goes, I don't find it applicable because there was a autopsy performed.

Each case is different and I would imagine that you would find the same procedures as described in the article common in pretty much every state.

For instance, when my friend committed suicide, she wrapped herself up in many blankets in a cocoon to prevent a bloody mess. She researched suicide and left a note. She shot herself in the head and there was gunshot residue on her hands. She talked about it before hand. So, the investigation all lead to suicide. There was no reason, what so ever, to do an autopsy on her.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Well, no, he doesn't "just assume." He says it's usually obvious by the circumstances. And if the family isn't kicking up a fuss (which would be one of the circumstances) you wouldn't autopsy an obvious suicide? jmo

I've read some of the things he's said about this case, and now this article. He seems like a reasonable and compassionate person who has a strong grip on the reality of particular situations rather than treating them all like he's on an episode of CSI. jmo

Of course he does. He says obvious suicides. How many times have we seen obvious suicides turn into murder?

The family is not "kicking up a fuss" Their child is dead and they want and DESERVE answers. There are a lot of things about this case that have muddied the waters.

I think that I want justice for Kendrick and that is where my loyalties lie. He deserves the truth to come out.

 

[iSleuth]

BTW. . .haven't seen it mentioned, but being someone that taught for many years. . . .Saturday of a three day weekend. Uh. . .in a school with 3000 students, unless he was one of their students and they felt very close to him, they were off enjoying their long weekend. That seems horrible, but it's the truth. Teachers spend so much of their time, and even their free time, devoted to their students and classrooms, that people sometimes forget that they have lives and families of their own outside of school.

I also suspect they may have been advised by the district legal team to stay away. Sad but true.

bbm Sad but true. I have gotten emails from my union rep. at a school reminding me who to vote for on election day. Of course I am alone when I vote. Also under a union you are required to do various extra and evenings under your contract. ( 1-2 parent nights) But I don't think they can force you to go to a funeral or force you not to go to a funeral during your free weekend time.

But, Let's just say for the sake of your example your district legal team, or say your superior tells you ( formally or informally) to stay away from something like a church service or a funeral in your free time, or risk losing your job, retirement and pension, there are words for that. They are: corruption, coercion, and harassment.

In my opinion that may well have happened.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

bbm Sad but true. I have gotten emails from my union rep. at a school reminding me who to vote for on election day. Of course I am alone when I vote. Also under a union you are required to do various extra and evenings under your contract. ( 1-2 parent nights) But I don't think they can force you to go to a funeral or force you not to go to a funeral during your free weekend time.

But, Let's just say for the sake of your example your district legal team, or say your superior tells you ( formally or informally) to stay away from something like a church service or a funeral in your free time, or risk losing your job, retirement and pension, there are words for that. They are: corruption, coercion, and harassment.

In my opinion that may well have happened.

Those are pretty strong and unwarranted accusations. First of all, there is absolutely no way of knowing who did and did not attend that funeral. It's all rumor and speculation and this case is drowning in rumor and speculation. It takes away from the facts when that happens and it clutters things up to the point of drawing the focus away from the answers that are desired.

I see emotion leading this "investigation" by many in the community, for the truth in what happened to KJ. IMO, usually when people are led by pure emotion it blinds them from seeing the facts.

 

[Sherp]

I don't know how to bring a post over from another thread, so I'm quoting myself here. The bold post is one of my first posts about Kendrick's case when I was convinced that this was a murder. I was outraged for the family.

So his parents are pushing hard for his case to be re-opened. He was found upside down in a rolled up gym mat with head trauma. Detectives rule it an accident. Wha?????

All my information about the case at that point was from MSM; I'd seen the horrific pictures of Kendrick side by side with Emmett Till, and I was livid that this was ruled an accident.

My opinion has changed completely. I feel duped that I allowed myself to become inflamed and manipulated by the press and others affiliated with the family. I now have no doubt this was a tragic accident.

The comment made by the Johnson family "We will not stop until someone pays" is troublesome. I hope this doesn't turn into another "Morgan Ingram" type crusade against innocent children. The kids in that case had their lives turned upside down by false murder accusations made by the Ingrams, who could not accept their child committed suicide or had an accidental overdose.

I feel so badly for the Johnson's and their grief must be indescribable. I hope they can somehow come to terms with what really happened.

All IMO of course.

Nope, NO head trauma or signs of being beaten. Both the peer reviewed GBI Forensic Physician and the Hired no name gun from Florida noted there was no facial beating. Autopsy is online. The swollen bloated face of Johnson was due to the body fluids draining into his face and decomposing. He was found in a heavy mat in the midst of about 20 other mats.
Poor Emmett Till was murdered and beaten. Till's comparison is Chaney, Goodman and Schwerner , 3 Civil Rights workers who were murdered in Mississippi during the struggle. Georgia Bureau of Investigation, a top tier unit emphatically stated it was an accident. MSM is trying to make another Martin incident for rating.
The two boys named as suspects know about lives being turned upside down. Documented that one boy was away from the school during a Sports Competition at the time and the other buy was in class at the time.
The grief is indescribable not only is there no closure but living with it for the rest of our lives. We only learn to live with the pain, but miss the loss person for the rest of our life.

 

[Tawny]

Until we see some sort of proof that only 2 teachers attended out of hundreds, that information is just a rumor. Plus, even IF "only 2 teachers" attended, it is not relevant whatsoever.