GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 # 6

[Backwoods]

Thanks. What I meant was, did SM have an alibi for his whereabouts for Thursday night so the focus would not be on him for the attempted break in email when it was read? Was he studying with a group of people or was he out of town that Thursday, then referenced it possibly in the email?

(Just for the record: I still haven't made up my mind, but of course with everything coming out now I am starting to lean ...)

I posted a similar speculation a thread or two back.

In an article on a news link (don't have it right at hand) we had a few days ago on an earlier thread, Lauren's sister Kaitlyn was quoted as saying something to the effect that the contents of the email were something they weren't wanting to disclose at this point. That makes me think even more that something is going on with that email...

I also wondered in my earlier post what it was that made Lauren suspect a Thursday break-in attempt, if indeed she wrote the email herself. I'm wondering now if SM might have even told Lauren that he had seen a suspicious character on her balcony (maintenance worker thing), hoping she would mention it to friends, etc. ... But how would he know she wouldn't say "Stephen told me he saw so-and-so...", thus bringing him into it. Unless he figured his plan was so perfect he would never even be looked at...?
<sigh> lots just not adding up ...

 

[bessie]

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[ThinMan]

Sorry, I'll back up. The probable cause affidavit is what LE gives to a judge, in which someone (usually some police officer) states under oath the facts that they believe give probable cause to show that the accused committed the crime they want to arrest him for. If the judge agrees that the affidavit does state probable cause to believe that the accused did it, he authorizes the warrant. The warrant then gives LE the authority to make the arrest. (In this case, the warrant and affidavit have been combined on one document.)

So if they wanted to arrest McD for felony murder, they would have to state facts in the affidavit that give probable cause to believe that (1) McD committed a felony, and (2) in the course of that felony, Lauren was killed. Neither of these elements are in there.

Instead, you have facts about the hacksaw with DNA, and previous comments that McD made that could murder someone and get away with it, and that Lauren's death resembles those prior comments. This is probable cause to believe that McD had planned out a murder, and then committed it, as there is physical evidence linking McD to a crime scene that is similar to his previously stated plans.

McD has a malice murder charge against him, not felony murder.

Hello, Hyrax -- welcome. I was away and just got caught up. I had been hoping that someone would untangle the murder/felony murder issue before now, but here goes:

The arrest warrant posted above simply says "murder" and cites OCGA 16-5-1. The statute covers both malice murder and felony murder. We know, now, that the actual charge for SMD was felony murder and we know it from the horse's mouth -- from DA Greg Winters' interview at the press conference on Wednesday after the arrest warrant was served on SMD late Tues. night.

With all respect, I think the affidavit portion of the arrest warrant states facts that create probable cause to believe that SMD committed felony murder. The affidavit recites his possession of keys that would open LG's apartment -- this makes it reasonable to conclude that he had the means to enter her apartment (felony burglary) and that, therefore, he did when coupled with the hacksaw evidence. The hacksaw packaging in SMD's apt, the hacksaw in the maintenance closet, and LG's DNA on the blade provide probable cause to prove he once possessed the instrument used in the dismemberment. This is enough to meet the probable cause test for his having killed her (even though logically it only makes it likely that he dismembered her, but who would dismember a corpse unless he was responsible for killing the person?).

The prob. cause threshold is very easy to meet and in this case, the affidavit facts support both the felony murder theory that Winters explained in great detail in his press conference and, due to the comments about being able to get away with murder, a malice murder theory.

The indictment will probably charge one or the other, although it is possible that it can charge both if the facts presented to the grand jury support both.

Make sense?

 

[bessie]

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 27 June 2011 - #6

Thanks, SS. I've seen the video but thought there might be something new about the condition of the torso. So, it's still unverified and not a fact at this point.

 

[Givsmetheshivers]

http://www.13wmaz.com/news/story.aspx?storyid=138550

If this is what prompted them to remove the tub, then I suggest the GBI and LE get MORE WOMEN AS CSI's.:woohoo:

 

[ThinMan]

Thanks, SS. I've seen the video but thought there might be something new about the condition of the torso. So, it's still unverified and not a fact at this point.

I saw that newscast and was aghast at the thought that LG's torso had been cut into thorax and abdomen parts (talk about gruesome and messy!).

The entirety of the video interview, however, leads me to believe that the expert was not well informed of the facts of this particular case. He spoke a lot about "in most cases" or "most murders", etc.

If WMAZ had information that the torso had been severed and that only the thorax had been recovered, those folks would have been shouting that information as their lead story. The absence of any such hoorah makes me confident that the expert was speaking without knowing what readers of WS know.

 

[ThinMan]

Forgot to conclude in that last post, that the statement that only the upper half of the torso was recovered is not merely an unverified assertion, I don't even count what that guy said as an assertion. That is, I don't think he was even trying to apply his general theory about dismemberments to this case.

 

[tomkat]

Winters did clearly state it was Felony Murder.

I'm thinking that for the warrant, an actual "Code" must be used.
And, as per:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 27 June 2011 - #6

http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/gacode/default.asp
These are the choices:
16-5-1. Murder; felony murder
16-5-2. Voluntary manslaughter
16-5-3. Involuntary manslaughter
16-5-4. Time elapsed between injury and death
16-5-5. Offering to assist in commission of suicide; criminal penalties

Edit: of course, I'm sure they could always change/upgrade this charge?

Can they change the charge? The warrant only stated "murder", does that mean anything?

 

[Previous Admonitions]

Hey Phoebeb ... that detail, like most others in this case, has not been made public yet. We can only speculate that maybe he wrote some things to that effect on a message board or e-mail (found on his computer), or else told it to someone whom the police later interviewed.

Do you have a link for this rumor?

Sorry, didn't mean to pass anything off as truth or start a rumor, my phrasing may have been bad. The point was that none of us know when/how/to whom SM made the comments referenced in the arrest warrant, we can only speculate (e.g. something he said online).

The parenthetical in my quoted post maybe should have said (hypothetically found on computer), that was the intent.

 

[ThinMan]

Can they change the charge? The warrant only stated "murder", does that mean anything?

Yes. Murder is defined in the statute and the term includes both malice murder and felony murder. See below.

O.C.G.A. 16-5-1 (2010)
16-5-1. Murder; felony murder

(a) A person commits the offense of murder when he unlawfully and with malice aforethought, either express or implied, causes the death of another human being.

(b) Express malice is that deliberate intention unlawfully to take the life of another human being which is manifested by external circumstances capable of proof. Malice shall be implied where no considerable provocation appears and where all the circumstances of the killing show an abandoned and malignant heart.

(c) A person also commits the offense of murder when, in the commission of a felony, he causes the death of another human being irrespective of malice.

(d) A person convicted of the offense of murder shall be punished by death, by imprisonment for life without parole, or by imprisonment for life.

Disclaimer: These codes may not be the most recent version. Georgia may have more current or accurate information. We make no warranties or guarantees about the accuracy, completeness, or adequacy of the information contained on this site or the information linked to on the state site. Please check official sources.

 

[MissingLovedOnes]

Hacksaw packaging, key to Lauren's apartment, master key. Plus other things we don't even know about yet.

Pretty clear that McD did NOT think Lauren's remains would be found in that trash can, nor that his apartment was going to be searched. I wonder if she had not been found, what his next move was going to be? Was the master plan to set up the MM, but it went awry? Still scratching my head over this.

"Body" reaction in that video was genuine, his plan was botched ...

Without knowing the maintenance man and the circumstances under which he may have been terminated, why does anyone assume SD may have set HIM up? Couldn't it have been the other way around?

I've found no sign that SD was angry or frustrated about anything at all. He was a law graduate, a classmate of Lauren's studying for the bar. He was excited and happy. He GRADUATED after years of hard work and dedication to being closer to his future dreams! The way I understand it, he was so very proud of himself.

So, LG and SD have been neighbors for 3 years without a single negative issue that I'm aware of, and somebody JUST tried to break in on the Thursday prior to the week she was supposed to be moving out and people assume it was McDaniel? After 3 years of NOT A SINGLE ISSUE? Why? Why would he do that?

If McDaniel had a MASTER KEY, he woulnd't have to TRY TO BREAK IN? Maintenance man wouldn't have to break in either, if he had a key,but put yourself inside that apartment and you see a door knob wiggle? You don't think "oh it's the maintenance man...with a key." Heck no.
You think, "omg, somebody is trying to break in."
And that was what McDaniel's mother says he witnessed.

I think maintenance man backed off when McDaniel saw him out there. Who knows, maybe it scared McDaniel, as well, but it's a well known clear fact that witnesses to things such as this are in danger, which is precisely why federal witnesses are protected in extreme life threatening cases. And in many cases, if a witness cannot be killed, they are so totally maligned by innunendo, rumors, and damning evidence that it's unlikely anyone will believe him if he does point a finger in another direction.

Anyway, if a maintenance man was indeed fired from the Barrister Hall Apartments, he seems more like the likely candidate to have a chip on his shoulder and a reason to smear the landlord and her business, which would make this death nothing personal with the Giddings or McDaniel.
(And if he bought a hacksaw, he probably planned the dismemberment AFTER HER DEATH. I think he originally may have planned to rape her so she would report it and nobody would want to live in that complex, which would HURT the landlord's business, but maybe Lauren beat his azz trying to fight him off and he had to kill her to stop her? Then he had to make a new plan.

Perhaps maintenance man assumed that since he was already fired, he could return with that key and do whatever he wanted and nobody would tie anything to him because he didn't work there anymore?

So, his motive would be clear:
termination of his employment, attempt to "pay back" landlord by ruining her business, nothing personal with Giddings or McDaniel.

People have killed other people for the very shoes they are wearing on their feet, so don't try to tell me a man wouldn't kill over being angry that he lost his job to some landlord lady who could have fired him for being a creep. Maybe he was reported for going into apartments and she fired him for THAT. No idea, but getting fired is a deeply personal action that affects people in different ways. Some want revenge.

Students kill teachers for being mean to them.

Children kill their parents for not letting them play video games.

Postal workers who are upset by being fired have "gone postal" and mowed down their boss or co-workers with gunfire, so don't tell me a recently fired mad maintenance man wouldn't attempt to kidnap, rape, or actually kill and dismember a woman in the apartments he was fired from...just to send a big FK YOU to the landlord.

Stranger things have happened.

 

[ThinMan]

Can they change the charge? The warrant only stated "murder", does that mean anything?

And yes, they can change the charge. The arrest warrant accomplishes his arrest and pretrial detention (unless bail is granted). He is being held for murder (now, rather than for burglary earlier), but as you can see the charges can change. The charge for which he will be tried will be the one on which he is indicted by the Grand Jury.

 

[southern_comfort]

I realize this has nothing to do with what's being discussed, but I've been pondering the lack of known social networking sites for SM. I was just thinking that sometimes people who are avid gamers will have their social networking site under an avatar's name. I know a number who do.

Unfortunately I don't know anything about which game(s) were played or avatar names in this case, but maybe someone else does.

 

[tomkat]

It is not going to the dump, it is being submitted for testing. See here:

http://www.13wmaz.com/news/article/138626/175/Giddings-Bathtub-Hauled-Away-to-Crime-Lab

(Note: I'm not quite sure why I can't get this to post as a clickable link - I'm on my iPhone, but it usually works fine)

Exactly my point. It must be going for analyzation. The other side didn't need to be covered, nothing they wanted investigated anyway. Covered as tehy didnt' want to disturb the marks before testing. I think I may have layed it on the other side though and why would LE help remove a tub for remodeling.

 

[cluciano63]

I just have a feeling that the saw wrapper and the DNA are a small part of the forensic evidence and that more will be revealed later on. And am interested in hearing whatever the scuttlebut was/is about Walmart...is there a video of him buying the saw, maybe, or a receipt?

 

[tomkat]

Without knowing the maintenance man and the circumstances under which he may have been terminated, why does anyone assume SD may have set HIM up? Couldn't it have been the other way around?

I've found no sign that SD was angry or frustrated about anything at all. He was a law graduate, a classmate of Lauren's studying for the bar. He was excited and happy. He GRADUATED after years of hard work and dedication to being closer to his future dreams! The way I understand it, he was so very proud of himself.

So, LG and SD have been neighbors for 3 years without a single negative issue that I'm aware of, and somebody JUST tried to break in on the Thursday prior to the week she was supposed to be moving out and people assume it was McDaniel? After 3 years of NOT A SINGLE ISSUE? Why? Why would he do that?

If McDaniel had a MASTER KEY, he woulnd't have to TRY TO BREAK IN? Maintenance man wouldn't have to break in either, if he had a key,but put yourself inside that apartment and you see a door knob wiggle? You don't think "oh it's the maintenance man...with a key." Heck no.
You think, "omg, somebody is trying to break in."
And that was what McDaniel's mother says he witnessed.

I think maintenance man backed off when McDaniel saw him out there. Who knows, maybe it scared McDaniel, as well, but it's a well known clear fact that witnesses to things such as this are in danger, which is precisely why federal witnesses are protected in extreme life threatening cases. And in many cases, if a witness cannot be killed, they are so totally maligned by innunendo, rumors, and damning evidence that it's unlikely anyone will believe him if he does point a finger in another direction.

Anyway, if a maintenance man was indeed fired from the Barrister Hall Apartments, he seems more like the likely candidate to have a chip on his shoulder and a reason to smear the landlord and her business, which would make this death nothing personal with the Giddings or McDaniel.
(And if he bought a hacksaw, he probably planned the dismemberment AFTER HER DEATH. I think he originally may have planned to rape her so she would report it and nobody would want to live in that complex, which would HURT the landlord's business, but maybe Lauren beat his azz trying to fight him off and he had to kill her to stop her? Then he had to make a new plan.

Perhaps maintenance man assumed that since he was already fired, he could return with that key and do whatever he wanted and nobody would tie anything to him because he didn't work there anymore?

So, his motive would be clear:
termination of his employment, attempt to "pay back" landlord by ruining her business, nothing personal with Giddings or McDaniel.

People have killed other people for the very shoes they are wearing on their feet, so don't try to tell me a man wouldn't kill over being angry that he lost his job to some landlord lady who could have fired him for being a creep. Maybe he was reported for going into apartments and she fired him for THAT. No idea, but getting fired is a deeply personal action that affects people in different ways. Some want revenge.

Students kill teachers for being mean to them.

Children kill their parents for not letting them play video games.

Postal workers who are upset by being fired have "gone postal" and mowed down their boss or co-workers with gunfire, so don't tell me a recently fired mad maintenance man wouldn't attempt to kidnap, rape, or actually kill and dismember a woman in the apartments he was fired from...just to send a big FK YOU to the landlord.

Stranger things have happened.

I might have given it some credence earlier in the investigation. Of course anything is possible

 

[tomkat]

And yes, they can change the charge. The arrest warrant accomplishes his arrest and pretrial detention (unless bail is granted). He is being held for murder (now, rather than for burglary earlier), but as you can see the charges can change. The charge for which he will be tried will be the one on which he is indicted by the Grand Jury.

Thank you. I guess what I mean is, can you change the degree of the charge, not the charge itself. In my mind, he had been charged with burglary, those charges later DROPPED, not changed, and was charged with a different crime. But you are saying, once indicted it cannot be changed, in any form if it is it go to trial?? If so, that may have been my confusion. Actually, DO the burglary charges still exist ?

 

[Phoebeb]

I just have a feeling that the saw wrapper and the DNA are a small part of the forensic evidence and that more will be revealed later on. And am interested in hearing whatever the scuttlebut was/is about Walmart...is there a video of him buying the saw, maybe, or a receipt?

What's the Walmart scuttlebut?

 

[SmoothOperator]

Yes charges can be changed, as in upgraded to higher degree or charge.. But it cannot be a charge that in any way contradicts the original charge.. That is how colonel mustard described it I believe.. Saying that yes, they could start withbcharge of felony murder and then as the other evidence came to light that would prove there was premeditation that the charge could be upgraded..

 

[pearl]

Hopefully, someone with apartment complex management experience will answer this question. Can apartment complex master keys be copied? The place where I work has keys which cannot be copied on a regular key making machine. Something about an extra protrusion on the key allows it to be uncopyable. To replace a lost key, you have to either buy a device to make the key from the lock company (heard it costs dearly) or order and buy another key from the lock company. If the master key that was found in SM's apartment is of the type that cannot be copied, I would think this means the owners have an unaccounted for master key.