GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #11

[fred&edna]

O/T

'Just read about Jessica Boyton (Griffin, GA). Maybe it's just as well that SS didn't really utilize the GBI in the Dermonds' case. Or maybe the GBI is fine as long as LE officers aren't in question. :notgood:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...wife-shot-in-head-Griffin-14-April-2016/page4

https://crimewatchdaily.com/2017/04...-daily-investigates-the-jessica-boynton-case/

 

[Deleted member 162919]

This is just my opinion about SS and his controlled leaks to the press. SS seems to only speak to locals who I assume are friends of his. He has not done an interview with anyone outside of Georgia because they would ask the tough questions that he doesn't want to answer . The podcast spent more time describing SS and his career than they did talking about the crime. Mark Winnie has basically asked the same questions each year and never presses for new information. 1 article was basically a biography of SS 's career in law enforcement. Typical politician is all he is. Barely anything has been said by his detectives since day 1 . SS is controlling the news through his friend in the press because he knows who was involved and doesn't want anyone to spill the beans because he does need a witness to get a conviction as he has said many times. The one thing he has stated over and over is that a call from someone who knows about this crime is what will solve this. I know I ramble on about things but this makes sense. He's basically saying I know who was there but since they can contest the dna or finger prints being found in the house I need a witness. Who could this be?

 

[rotary_dial]

This is O/T, I know the GBI is not involved in this case. It shows how the GBI and small town Georgia sometimes operates:
http://savannahnow.com/features/justicebetrayed/

If you've got some spare time and love reading about interesting cases, I highly recommend it. Contains a suspicious death, small town politics, sexual harassment, drug use, nepotism, LE coverups, threats, wiretapping of a GBI agent, and plenty more lol.


Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[SavageMarkIII]

Its encouraging in one way and discouraging in others. It seems the only way this case will become solved is if someone calls in like they did in Tara's case many years later. Neither of the two suspects in that case were ever on the police radar. Imo, these killers aren't going to be anyone the investigators have known about during the investigation.

BBM

Local Authorities may have known at a minimum Bo Duke's name. I don't think we know for sure yet, what the local authorities and the GBI did or did not know. I don't know if we will ever know all of the truth in Tara's case. But there are indications that people reported the stories, regarding Tara Grinstead, Bo Duke was telling people to the Ocilla Police/local authorities. 2 officers may have gone to the pecan orchard in 2005/2006. Hopefully, the truth will come, but I am not holding my breath.

 

[auburnmomof2]

My random opinion....I think there is an illegitimate child that Mr D had from an affair. I think Mrs. D insisted on keeping it hidden due to social and financial repercussions. I think the child, now grown, didn't know who his/her father was until not long before the murders. I think the person hated them both but hated her more. I think they killed Mr D and tortured Mrs. D by having her watch the decapitation. I think the killer was so angry about how different their life could've been if Mr D would've stood up to Mrs D and been in this person's life. This crime was filled with extreme hate. I also think what the neighbor didn't see was a shirt on the man in the yard. That would explain how they knew it was a white man. I have a friend who had a child from an affair and his wife would get furious when he tried to have a relationship with his child so that's where I came up with this random theory. I also remember looking on the family's fb pages early on and seeing picnic pictures on a lake from an Atlanta relative. Those pictures disappeared. I wish now I had screenshotted them. This is completely my random thoughts on this case.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I believe GBI or LE had interviewed both BO and Ryan in the Grinstead case so they were basically on the radar but they didnt think they had any involvement........fooled them all

As far as teh PH comment....he only agreed with SS on everyhting he said, SS wants a phone call from someone in the know yet he's withheld info the public could have used early in the investigation.......like WHITE male..........like the NETTING and Im assuming it's fish netting and not hoisery or bird netting or silt fence or construction orange netting..................

I asked PH questions he could not answer so he doesnt not know this case the way some do and has only recently came on board

Im sure SS has done a lot but I dont agree with some of what he's done but Im no investigator you can't expect someone to call in tips though if you dont give information to the public

Its encouraging in one way and discouraging in others. It seems the only way this case will become solved is if someone calls in like they did in Tara's case many years later. Neither of the two suspects in that case were ever on the police radar. Imo, these killers aren't going to be anyone the investigators have known about during the investigation.

If and when it is solved the name/s of the suspect/s will have never been mentioned nor were known to LE. IMO That has happened in several cold cases which were eventually solved. In several of the cases the suspect/s turned out to be someone LE had never even questioned or knew about.

But Marietta defense attorney Philip Holloway, a former prosecutor and host of a podcast, “Sworn,” which examined the Dermond mystery, said the sheriff has left no stone unturned.

“This is the most thorough investigation I’ve ever seen,” Holloway said. “I don’t think there’s anything else he can do.”

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I thinnk the discovery or lack thereof of Mrs D was discussed much and in many ways....if you dont want to get caught... I suppose, delaying the investigation might help.....It makes me sick to think the family could be involved adn they may not be....BUT they did NOT hang around IIRC and they did not attend the vigil given by the church either....they waited to hold MR D"s funeral until they found out if she was dead or alive...........i dont know if I would have waited .....where did they think she was? How did they knw they would even find her? did they KNOW she was dead? Suspect she was dead? How long were they willing to wait before they held their father's funeral? If she hadnt been found, you're right that would have delayed their inheritance but eventyally she would have been ruled deceased....just have to go to court.....but LIke yall said, (it appeared) as if they didnt want MRS D to be found but she was.......what hit man comes down from NY or wherever and kills an elderly couple because they are trying to extort money on a day the banks are only open half day if at all, steals no valuables after a botched extortion for cash or bank box valuables and doesnt know the body will surface if not weighted properly....that's a lot of work to do it all wrong.....STILL so many questions!

These are other questions

Very true. Sills said Mrs. D's body was never expected to be found. So, who does that? Someone with a grudge against the entire Dermond clan??? Or someone within the family who knew they would never receive any of the inheritance and wanted to make sure that no one else received any money either.

The sons seemed to have moved on and are quite successful still. IIRC they did not hang around for Mrs. D to be found.

I don't think this was someone high on drugs or crazy. Too neat. Few clues. Professional - ? a professional would have made sure Mrs. D's body was never found if that was the intent. It had to be laid out. They prepared to take Mr. D's head either as a means of recovering the evidence if shot or as a message to the Dermond clan. I think they brought the decapitation tools with them. Who does that??? And then resumes life as normal?

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Very good Hockeyguy!! He said once he would lie if that's what it took to solve this case.....Is he lying about what he thinks? Who he thinks did it? Well CLEARLY he's not going to spill the beans on that, it would be defamation!! Until there is an indictment he can't say WHO he thinks did it specifically............I asked PH questions he couldn't answer... how does that make him an expert in this case when he just came on board.......so you are right, he's very safe in who interviews him or atleast controls the interview before hand Im sure....the last article said the casters were asked not to tell all basically...WHY? why did THEY get to hear and why do you give information to certain individuals but not others? WHy entrust anyone to privy information that you dont want spread..........

I do hope that this will be like Tara's case only much sooner that someone calls with knowledge of the murders........They've likely interviewed the murderer just like GBI and LE did in the tara case, Bo and Ryan...If Ryan thought he did it becuase someone TOLD him he did (since he may have blacked out and didnt remember the nigth before) woldnt he be very nervous in talking with LE and GBI? How did he go undetected by the experts?

Is it the same in this case???

as an after thought.... if Mr D's left foot was dragged thru the blood in the garage, was there any footprints? i doubt it but we've not heard.....

Would still like to know if I'm barking up the wrong tree about the netting, was it fish netting? Bird netting? Some other type? Guessing it was fish netting since he's looking for a hunter and fisherman type, handy with knives and possibly guns and boating

This is just my opinion about SS and his controlled leaks to the press. SS seems to only speak to locals who I assume are friends of his. He has not done an interview with anyone outside of Georgia because they would ask the tough questions that he doesn't want to answer . The podcast spent more time describing SS and his career than they did talking about the crime. Mark Winnie has basically asked the same questions each year and never presses for new information. 1 article was basically a biography of SS 's career in law enforcement. Typical politician is all he is. Barely anything has been said by his detectives since day 1 . SS is controlling the news through his friend in the press because he knows who was involved and doesn't want anyone to spill the beans because he does need a witness to get a conviction as he has said many times. The one thing he has stated over and over is that a call from someone who knows about this crime is what will solve this. I know I ramble on about things but this makes sense. He's basically saying I know who was there but since they can contest the dna or finger prints being found in the house I need a witness. Who could this be?

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I do believe he was interviewed as it was told by the podcast and LE did not think he had anything to do with it

BBM

Local Authorities may have known at a minimum Bo Duke's name. I don't think we know for sure yet, what the local authorities and the GBI did or did not know. I don't know if we will ever know all of the truth in Tara's case. But there are indications that people reported the stories, regarding Tara Grinstead, Bo Duke was telling people to the Ocilla Police/local authorities. 2 officers may have gone to the pecan orchard in 2005/2006. Hopefully, the truth will come, but I am not holding my breath.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

OHHH, will read, thanks for the link............I read a book probably similar to this about good ole Dodge county and its corruption....It does happen!! people from these areas TELL US how they stick together, will help their own in the county...it was told in the tara grinstead case by citizens of this town how it is...., i've experienced it as an outsider in a small town near Dodge county where we owned property.....they stick together!!LE and citizens watch out for their own!!

This is O/T, I know the GBI is not involved in this case. It shows how the GBI and small town Georgia sometimes operates:
http://savannahnow.com/features/justicebetrayed/

If you've got some spare time and love reading about interesting cases, I highly recommend it. Contains a suspicious death, small town politics, sexual harassment, drug use, nepotism, LE coverups, threats, wiretapping of a GBI agent, and plenty more lol.


Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Things were reported by Ocilla LE to the GBI that they sat on..........I dont recall what that information was exactly but it was int he podcast, I wish the cast was in book form, hard to relisten to it all LOL but it was also told they did interview Ryan for sure

BBM

Local Authorities may have known at a minimum Bo Duke's name. I don't think we know for sure yet, what the local authorities and the GBI did or did not know. I don't know if we will ever know all of the truth in Tara's case. But there are indications that people reported the stories, regarding Tara Grinstead, Bo Duke was telling people to the Ocilla Police/local authorities. 2 officers may have gone to the pecan orchard in 2005/2006. Hopefully, the truth will come, but I am not holding my breath.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

WOW! about the fb pics!! maybe they just put it all on private or friends only instead of public view.......INTERESTING to say the least! Im sure some of the children are reading this site so were compelled to hide info for WHATever reasons

So many theories out there, very well coudl be what you say..........Im just following the information I find and questioning it

but you have a GOOD point about the shirtless male!!! Hmm, was he washing the blood from his shirt outside at the spigot......wish we knew exactly where he was seen on the lawn! Im still curious why Mr D had gunshot residue around his collar, tho minimal...LE says that doesnt mean he was shot............but.it was there so where did it come from and Mr D had apparently just risen from bed, still in pj's and robe so he hadn't been out at the shooting range.....think?

My random opinion....I think there is an illegitimate child that Mr D had from an affair. I think Mrs. D insisted on keeping it hidden due to social and financial repercussions. I think the child, now grown, didn't know who his/her father was until not long before the murders. I think the person hated them both but hated her more. I think they killed Mr D and tortured Mrs. D by having her watch the decapitation. I think the killer was so angry about how different their life could've been if Mr D would've stood up to Mrs D and been in this person's life. This crime was filled with extreme hate. I also think what the neighbor didn't see was a shirt on the man in the yard. That would explain how they knew it was a white man. I have a friend who had a child from an affair and his wife would get furious when he tried to have a relationship with his child so that's where I came up with this random theory. I also remember looking on the family's fb pages early on and seeing picnic pictures on a lake from an Atlanta relative. Those pictures disappeared. I wish now I had screenshotted them. This is completely my random thoughts on this case.

 

[auburnmomof2]

I think he was shot, but not sure where the shooting occurred. I wondered early on if he may have fired a shot at the killer but there would be gsr on his hands. I think SS knows way more than we realize. I've also wondered if the derby had something to do with it. Possibly large wagers. Not likely but just a thought. I personally don't think the family was very close. The children's actions afterwards doesn't seem like children who are determined to find out who killed their parents. I think there are some deep rooted family secrets that play a major role in the murders. Do we know much about the daughter's visit prior to the murders?

 

[Deleted member 162919]

SS found evidence he just needs someone to match the evidence he has, As for the person in the front yard the neighbor SS says didn't get a good look at he's lying. If the neighbor could tell it was a white male then SS is leaving out other details about the person on the front lawn. Point A leads to point B and this mystery person definitely leads to the killers . SS has been feeding us junk for 3 years trying to keep this case from going cold in the press for fear his county will lose faith in his abilities to protect them which he has failed at multiple times in the past. A hit from up North could be possible but the dermonds haven't lived there in almost 30 years and when they did leave there they weren't that well off at least not like they were when they were killed. Every officer I have talked to in New England and 1 NY detective says this was personal and probably family or a business associate. Someone from up North would not know the area well enough to pull something like this off so clean.

 

[Bootsctr]

O/T

'Just read about Jessica Boyton (Griffin, GA). Maybe it's just as well that SS didn't really utilize the GBI in the Dermonds' case. Or maybe the GBI is fine as long as LE officers aren't in question. :notgood:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...wife-shot-in-head-Griffin-14-April-2016/page4

https://crimewatchdaily.com/2017/04...-daily-investigates-the-jessica-boynton-case/

Thank you for bring this case to our attention! Jessica is a very brave young woman! I am rooting for her. She is a survivor!

Sadly, her case is a perfect illustration of LE protecting one of their own! Not saying this is what is going on in the D's case, but never say never I say.

 

[Bootsctr]

I think he was shot, but not sure where the shooting occurred. I wondered early on if he may have fired a shot at the killer but there would be gsr on his hands. I think SS knows way more than we realize. I've also wondered if the derby had something to do with it. Possibly large wagers. Not likely but just a thought. I personally don't think the family was very close. The children's actions afterwards doesn't seem like children who are determined to find out who killed their parents. I think there are some deep rooted family secrets that play a major role in the murders. Do we know much about the daughter's visit prior to the murders?

I remember they came at Easter. Google pointed me back to WS's for the daughter's Easter visit. Easter Sunday fell on April 20, 2014. Original post says there is a video at the link that stated the daughter and grandchildren attended Easter Sunday with the Dermonds. The video is no longer showing up for me.

The Rev. Key said the couple had attended the church for about seven years, as recently as Easter Sunday.

http://www.13wmaz.com/news/local/hancock/victims-son-putnam-murder-makes-no-sense/299105932

 

[Bootsctr]

I believe the gentleman in the podcast (not the FBI profiler and not PH) stated he thought the killer would be in his 40s/40ish. That could be the age of an illegitimate child.

Aha! Found it.

PH: "What kind of person does this?"

Dr. Maurice Godwin @ 5:22 of the closing statement podcast: "The crime itself is very unusual. You know after reading everything I could, I think one of the main motives was retribution. I mean anytime that you're in business making that kind of money...

:gaah: I'm switching browsers.

 

[Bootsctr]

Dr. Maurice Godwin @ 5:22 of the closing statement podcast:

"The crime itself is very unusual. You know after reading everything I could, I think one of the main motives was retribution.

I mean anytime that you're in business making that kind of money there's always a chance that you have crossed someone, but you don't ever know it.

It's definitely someone with a criminal history.

You will likely find them in the burglary files. There's no doubt about that.

Likely that the motive was retribution and that I do not believe that the head was taken for shock value.

I don't believe that the head was taken for a trophy or anything like that.

It was personal and the head was taken to show that they meant business there and I think it was the ultimate revenge or the ultimate retribution and I think that is exactly what it was.

This is what I call a cognitive object individual.

Their cognitive awareness during the crime that anything by leaving evidence they are very forensically aware, but the object part is how they see the victim.

Rather than seeing a victim as a vehicle to vent their rage and anger on, they saw the victim as an object, just a lifeless thing, sort of like a mannequin, and so when you see something or a person like that as an object then you don't have any kind of repercussions, psychological guilt, or anything like that when you do something like removing the head.

They have sociopath tendencies of no remorse, no empathy, no conscience.

They have no empathy!

They cannot empathize that like for example other people cry, or other people hurt and have feelings. They don't have any relationship to that, but this person here saw these people as nothing but objects, a lifeless mannequin and that is all they did and in removing the head and doing what they did to his wife was just like going to get a hamburger.

When you step into someone's house, and especially a house that big and stuff and you have never really done that before, you are apt to make mistakes, but if you being in people's house illegally, breaking and entering and stuff like that and you have done it on a regular basis and stuff you are comfortable, like you are at home, so you are very more forensically aware.

These people were very forensically aware.

These are the type of people who see people as objects, objects to control, objects to treat like a lifeless thing, a mannequin. That is exactly how they saw these people here.

These are the type of people that will not talk about this, so it is going to be through investigative work that you are going to have to link them.

It is not going to be that somebody said something to somebody else and talked causing a tip.

You are looking at somebody that is in their late 30s/early 40s based on the type of crime it was, the age of the victims, and the sophistication, the elaborate planning that they did of this.

This was drawn out.

They drew this out on paper and they planned this out and they pulled it off just like a military exercise.

These people did exactly what they meant to do.

They were planning to cut his head off before they ever stepped foot on his property. There is no doubt about it.

The age, I mean, just considering doing this to a real elderly couple, a man is 88-years-old and stuff, this was really personal.

Somebody had hate.

Something went wrong in this guy's background that he didn't realize that was as bad as it was.

This was not a random thing.

Somebody had a personal revenge and they sought retribution against this person."

https://www.you tube.com/watch?v=txG9ny9HkZQ

http://www.drmauricegodwin.com/defaultmain.html

:thinking: Scary!

 

[fred&edna]

I think he was shot, but not sure where the shooting occurred. I wondered early on if he may have fired a shot at the killer but there would be gsr on his hands. I think SS knows way more than we realize. I've also wondered if the derby had something to do with it. Possibly large wagers. Not likely but just a thought. I personally don't think the family was very close. The children's actions afterwards doesn't seem like children who are determined to find out who killed their parents. I think there are some deep rooted family secrets that play a major role in the murders. Do we know much about the daughter's visit prior to the murders?

The illegitimate child theory (while questionable) isn't half bad! If that's the case, then I wonder if they only recently (2013-2015) learned of MrD being their father (possibly when their mother passed)? Or, maybe they always knew and had some (limited) type relationship? It's an interesting possibility, and I wonder if the thought has been investigated by SS?

 

[fred&edna]

They drew this out on paper and they planned this out and they pulled it off just like a military exercise.

RSBM

Your first post (regarding the Easter visit) made me think of revisiting/reviewing earlier threads on this case as there may be comments, news reports, theories, etc that we've forgotten. Interestingly, I came across a comment by Foxfire that matches one of Godwin's comments (BBM above)

"...Imo, the Dermond murders were not an impulsive crime, but well planned and executed, and the perp/s responsible were professional/paramilitary; 'no stranger/s to the game'..."

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...m-County-2-May-2014-9&p=11229504#post11229504

Maybe everyone else remembers "military/paramilitary" being used to describe the killers, but I certainly didn't... and, obviously it stands out to me, now.

Also, note in that same quote by Foxfire, he states, "Seems that if Mr D was decapitated to remove ballistic forensic evidence, there would have likely been gun shot residue present on his neck". And, what did we recently learn from the podcast... GSR was found on/near MrD's shirt collar.