GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #11

[auburnmomof2]

The illegitimate child theory (while questionable) isn't half bad! If that's the case, then I wonder if they only recently (2013-2015) learned of MrD being their father (possibly when their mother passed)? Or, maybe they always knew and had some (limited) type relationship? It's an interesting possibility, and I wonder if the thought has been investigated by SS?

I was thinking that the mother may have told him shortly before her death. If this was the case he was likely raised by a single mother and saw her work hard and struggle to make ends meet. This crime was very hate filled and I could see him feeling like he was getting back at them for his and his mother's struggles. This is just a random theory I've had but it seems to fit the hatred of the crime. I've wondered if that could have played a role in them moving to the Atlanta area from up north. I know that it would make sense for them to move if there were infidelity issues. I could be way off on this theory but I've thought about it a lot and something gives me the feeling that I could be on to something. I think the killer has a criminal or military background and that it was planned out precisely beforehand

 

[Bootsctr]

Foxfire really did hit the nail on the head with what the profiler says about the killer. I can definitely see a child born out of wedlock being very bitter and angry and growing up hating the D's too. Maybe the child was even given a job by Mr. D at some point, but that didn't work out and he ended firing that person.

Also, a half-sibling to the D's children, if the children were aware of the half-sibling, might explain their behavior after the murders when they didn't hang around for Mrs. D to be found. Might explain why the son pointed the investigation in the direction of a cult because it was still important for appearances that the half-sibling not be made public information.

I definitely think SS should explore this avenue of a possible child out of wedlock. If this person exists and maybe did join a branch of the military this would set off all kind of alarm bells in my mind.

Otherwise, SS should not expect a tip to be called in to solve this case, according to the profiler. If the profiler is correct, this person worked for RD and was probably fired. To Mr. D this was no big deal, but to the killer it meant they needed to kill him for being fired or maybe even embarressed in front of ther employees. I would think former employees might remember such an incident. No easy task to find out who worked for RD all those years either. I'm sure he fired more than one employee.

I'm off to read the original thread as I need a refresher course on the D's case. IIRC, there were several different chain restaurants that Mr. D was involved.

 

[Lawdog99]

OHHH, will read, thanks for the link............I read a book probably similar to this about good ole Dodge county and its corruption....It does happen!! people from these areas TELL US how they stick together, will help their own in the county...it was told in the tara grinstead case by citizens of this town how it is...., i've experienced it as an outsider in a small town near Dodge county where we owned property.....they stick together!!LE and citizens watch out for their own!!

You all have certainly hit the nail on the head about small town politics. You have the in crowd that sticks together and most of the time it is to line their own pockets. This group normally controls elections, buying and selling of property, road and street paving projects, and the unspoken transactions...... But you do have those people who just try to work hard to make a living, living check to check and no matter what they feel or think, they have no power to do anything about it. Those are the law abiding good people in those small towns...

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

on point............I concur and have continually posted about this and their actions.......yes she was there the week before easter and returned likely on the day after easter or even easter sunday due to school starting back on Monda, i checked the school calendars, she and kids attended church on easter sunday with their parents accord to pastor Keys I think is his name.......she is remarried now............

13 days later they are dead........

I think he was shot, but not sure where the shooting occurred. I wondered early on if he may have fired a shot at the killer but there would be gsr on his hands. I think SS knows way more than we realize. I've also wondered if the derby had something to do with it. Possibly large wagers. Not likely but just a thought. I personally don't think the family was very close. The children's actions afterwards doesn't seem like children who are determined to find out who killed their parents. I think there are some deep rooted family secrets that play a major role in the murders. Do we know much about the daughter's visit prior to the murders?

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Yes that is true Lawdog!! Hey where ya been!? It's scary and frustrating cuz like you say, the good people cna't stand up to that hardly and so leaves a bad imprint on the brain when uyou see that kind of corruption. SO SAD

You all have certainly hit the nail on the head about small town politics. You have the in crowd that sticks together and most of the time it is to line their own pockets. This group normally controls elections, buying and selling of property, road and street paving projects, and the unspoken transactions...... But you do have those people who just try to work hard to make a living, living check to check and no matter what they feel or think, they have no power to do anything about it. Those are the law abiding good people in those small towns...

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

ok, yes I wish FF was here! He nailed it on the para militrary thing.....but Im with Hockyguy tho.....and as far as hitman go.........they are military types........

Let me just say.....If the person that killed this elderly couple were so experienced and took their time to do it right and had planned it out on paper

WHY THE HELL did they forget that a body would surface, they HAD to know 2 cinder blocks was NOT going to keep her down

She surfaced, they did everything right but that.......now I know no one is perfect.......but the kids got their inheritance sooner than if she'd not surfaced, tho they would have still gotten their inheritance eventually

But aybe these para military planner hitmen...........wanted her to surface so soon........made it look like they didnt but they would HAVE TO KNOW she would blow up with gases and surface
They planned it out all so well but forgot that most important detail....SMH

Beheaded him, had people looking under the docks for her AND UP and down the interstate with billboards

Maybe it was just a hired hit.........but it LOOKS like a a plaramilitary planned killing but THIS WAS NOT LUCK that the derby party was going on and the daughter was there 2 weeks prior IMO AND that the next door neighbor was in Asia

AND WHICH neighbor witnessed this thing.....auburnmom made a good point that he could have been shirtless.........but im with hockeyguy and i've blown up all threads with my questions on why they knew it was a man yet at a glance thru a forest of trees, YOU CANNOT KNOW THAT

IMO, no pissed off grandchild is going to be experienced enough to do this without leaving a trace of evidence just like a druggee looking for cash..........well they forgot to take the expensive watch and any jewelry and cash on hand that was left behind in the house, that's becuase they were going to get it after the estate was settled!


Every thing that happened in this case confused this investigation so badly....and people have so many theories out there.......but follow the money and the evidence

The kids got their inheritance quicker when that body surfaced but we know she was killed by experienced killer according to the experts due to leaving no evidence or mess behind, it just slowed LE down and confused the whole thing so not to be on their trail too soon or in this case, at all.

I dont know, nothing else seems to make sense...so that is the confusion.....people that are killers or who hire a hitman NEVER think they'll be caught so they aren't RISKING anything!

Im sure SS is still watching EVERYONE

 

[fred&edna]

Random thoughts and questions stirred-up from old posts, old news reports, etc...

"We've got fingerprints, we've got hairs, we've got fibers, we've got all matter of forensic evidence that we've collected from the house."...

https://www.thoughtco.com/the-lake-oconee-murders-971121

Are fingerprints kept on file for all military personnel ? If so, then fingerprints from the murders don't match, OR the killers weren't actually in the military, OR maybe only the "planner" had a military background and wasn't present (or wore gloves) for the killings. *ETA: Also, if one or more of the killers has a criminal background (as has been suggested by many)... then their fingerprints should be on file, too... or maybe they haven't been caught??

Use of the DA's office puzzles me:

"I've now received their phone records for six months period prior to their murder, and likewise an equal number of records of anybody associated with them," Sills said. The Gwinnett County district attorney's office is using special software to help analyze the data. The sheriff hopes the records will uncover clues.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/investigators-hope-new-evidence-may-lead-arrest-sl/137066754

Why would the DA's office have this special software rather than a more tech-related agency (like the FBI)?? (Maybe it's unimportant, but still strikes me as a bit strange. I mean, in reality, what does the DA's office actually do with regards to phone records?)

I have more, but... I'll wait.

 

[fred&edna]

on point............I concur and have continually posted about this and their actions.......yes she was there the week before easter and returned likely on the day after easter or even easter sunday due to school starting back on Monda, i checked the school calendars, she and kids attended church on easter sunday with their parents accord to pastor Keys I think is his name.......she is remarried now............

13 days later they are dead........

BBM

I just noticed her last name changed! Maybe prompted by empty-nest (I have no idea if this is the case) OR something else??

Hmmmmm

 

[auburnmomof2]

Thinking about the timeline....Mrs D was dressed for the day, Mr D wasn't. I think she was taken by car then dumped by boat in the lake. Just because of the risk of being seen by boat at their house. I'm wondering if she could've gotten taken the night before he was killed. Did they sleep in the same room? A lot of older couples sleep in separate rooms. Interesting about the daughter getting remarried. Makes me wonder if her portion of the inheritance plays a part somehow. All of this is just my random thoughts on this puzzling case

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I guess wehn I say Military I mean the style of killing, not litterally......whatever forensices they have are the Dermonds and family and maybe a few friends and MAYBE a stranger, maybe not........doesnt appear tehy were inside.......so in that case, nothing but the family dna and forensics and the couple who found them BUT Whatever other forensics/dna they pulled, apparently isn't in the database........doesnt mean they haven't murdered or committed any misdemeaners, just means they haven't any fingerprints in the national database or haven't been caught yet........right?

GOOD question about the DA's office in gwinnett, other than, is that the county of Sandy Springs or wiat, no i think their previous home was fulton county GA
maybe he has a friend there too, like the jacksonville case? He goes to the counties he think might be connected?? IDK....

Random thoughts and questions stirred-up from old posts, old news reports, etc...

"We've got fingerprints, we've got hairs, we've got fibers, we've got all matter of forensic evidence that we've collected from the house."...

https://www.thoughtco.com/the-lake-oconee-murders-971121

Are fingerprints kept on file for all military personnel ? If so, then fingerprints from the murders don't match, OR the killers weren't actually in the military, OR maybe only the "planner" had a military background and wasn't present (or wore gloves) for the killings. *ETA: Also, if one or more of the killers has a criminal background (as has been suggested by many)... then their fingerprints should be on file, too... or maybe they haven't been caught??

Use of the DA's office puzzles me:

"I've now received their phone records for six months period prior to their murder, and likewise an equal number of records of anybody associated with them," Sills said. The Gwinnett County district attorney's office is using special software to help analyze the data. The sheriff hopes the records will uncover clues.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/investigators-hope-new-evidence-may-lead-arrest-sl/137066754

Why would the DA's office have this special software rather than a more tech-related agency (like the FBI)?? (Maybe it's unimportant, but still strikes me as a bit strange. I mean, in reality, what does the DA's office actually do with regards to phone records?)

I have more, but... I'll wait.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Id have to look back but I THINK she was at the 2017 KY Derby with this man...........I still wonder, did she call home after the 2014 KY Derby? Shes a big equine person......clearly does the derby parties.......and yet, she didnt even call to see how the parents party went that weekend and talk about the winner seing how she's into that kind of thing........... or did she call and didnt think anything of them not returning her call for 3 days? DId the sons call? Just seems odd but it may be normal for them, apparently...........

BBM

I just noticed her last name changed! Maybe prompted by empty-nest (I have no idea if this is the case) OR something else??

Hmmmmm

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

I think it Dr Maurice Godwins' post above.....something like it was long or drawn out..........and ive wondered too how long the killers hung aruond the house to do all they did...........since the neighbros were in asia and the kids lived out of state, dead end street, no one could see what was going on and all their friends were at the derby party, risky if someone had tried to go see about them that night, but you know what.....NO ONE knew they were murdered and WHO would EVER suspect that, especially not BOTH of them at the same time, so if one was sick or hurt the other would take care and they'd all find out later, the next day when they called to check and they DID call and go no answers, people dont just drop what they are doing to go see about someone who missed a part esp if just acquaintences..................

Auburnmom IIRC, Mr D would lounge around in his robe and pj/boxers or whatever if they didnt have an appt or any where to be that day, so probalby arose later than Mrs D...IIRC, she was an early riser.......I figure they got her first and he heard a noise possibly and came out to see........

Maybe not too risky by car but I have a place on sinclar, let me tell, if you dont I mean.....it gets DARK at night, you cant see anything or tell what is waht except boat lights going by, walking, people on the dock, you might see movement if you are outside but if not, you dont know WHAT goes on outside at night....Ive had people pull uup in a boat to my dock walk to my door and I never even saw them until they knocked and I was in the Sunroom facing the lake

But I agree, could have been by boat or car, especially if they had a tag or ID to enter GW, if not, they did not come by car risking getting ID's at the gate upon entry

IMHO!

Thinking about the timeline....Mrs D was dressed for the day, Mr D wasn't. I think she was taken by car then dumped by boat in the lake. Just because of the risk of being seen by boat at their house. I'm wondering if she could've gotten taken the night before he was killed. Did they sleep in the same room? A lot of older couples sleep in separate rooms. Interesting about the daughter getting remarried. Makes me wonder if her portion of the inheritance plays a part somehow. All of this is just my random thoughts on this puzzling case

 

[Bootsctr]

Use of the DA's office puzzles me:

"I've now received their phone records for six months period prior to their murder, and likewise an equal number of records of anybody associated with them," Sills said. The Gwinnett County district attorney's office is using special software to help analyze the data. The sheriff hopes the records will uncover clues.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/investigators-hope-new-evidence-may-lead-arrest-sl/137066754

Why would the DA's office have this special software rather than a more tech-related agency (like the FBI)?? (Maybe it's unimportant, but still strikes me as a bit strange. I mean, in reality, what does the DA's office actually do with regards to phone records?)

I have more, but... I'll wait.

The DA's office having the special software puzzles me too! I would have expected the GBI or another agency to have the software.

Also from your link:

“We re-interviewed some family members last week again for the second time (Looking for) some revelation, something we might have missed out on,” Sills said.

By December 2014 I would have expected the family to be completely cleared. Obviously there were unanswered questions by the family.

I have too many questions! Do we know for sure that the person spotted on the Dermond's property is white? Why was he shirtless? Like someone stated it could have been covered in blood and he removed it.

My thoughts differ from the profiler:

1. I think the person who did this only wanted Mrs. D's body to remain submerged long enough for him to get away. I think he wanted there to be a nationwide search for her. I think this excited him.

2. I think he liked the attention the case got for Mr. D's head being taken.

3. Also, if this person was so forensically aware then why did they leave the lampshade tilted? Also they did leave prints and fibers so they made mistakes forensically.

 

[Bootsctr]

I also agree that whomever did this was aware about the Derby Party and the neighbor being out of the country (first time I have heard that though). But if they knew the D's would be attending the Derby Party, why not wait until they left for the party to enter the home? To me this rules out extortion and robbery. I don't know.

How did they know the people at the party would not leave the party to check on why the Dermonds never showed up? Was that part of the thrill they got from murdering this couple, half expecting someone to show up while he was cutting off Mr. D's head?

I always think about a guard perhaps having a beef with Mr. D and they would know (I presume) who was gone from Lake Oconee for travel abroad and who was in town.... ??? They would know about the Derby Party too!

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

because they were looking to kill them........robbers go when they know no one is home, that rules out saturday or friday evening, the family would likely be home, kids home from school, had they not known who lived there but just a secluded house BUT..., had it been thursday or friday morning....yet another story...they could have gone in and got what they wanted.......but remember, rolex and cash was laying around in the open.....AND they were there on saturday when the banks are closed or only open til noon, this also rules out extortion IMO, youd think it would be a weekday if they were there to rob them, ATM's only let you get $300 at the time, not enough worth cutting heads and hauling someone off IMO

I just really dont think it was someone angry with him, it had to be an expert, so he either knew an expert killer or someone hired one to kill them.....

Seriously, how many people are going to leave the party to drive over and check on them? Well you can't KNOW this for certain, but no one did apparently.....if they were locked up in the house and no noe could get in, who's to know? cna't see if the cars are gone.......but the friends who found them called and never even went over until tuesday and they are only 2 miles away or less according to reports........in my mind....no one is going to have ANY IDEA....that someone is being murdered...........the killers just dont answer the door or phone and if the D's are dead or gagged and tied up, who's going to know something is wrong.....

Also, somehow the killers must've known about the neighbors being gone, that they had no plans to catch a ride with someone to the derby party and that all their friends would be preoccupied with the party.....WHO WOULD know this information? the Dermonds? The daughter? Another neighbor?

Or else it was all just random.............

whatever is going on, its got us all playing theory tag......probalby not even looking in the right direction due to all the confusion in this case

IDK, just my opinions

I also agree that whomever did this was aware about the Derby Party and the neighbor being out of the country (first time I have heard that though). But if they knew the D's would be attending the Derby Party, why not wait until they left for the party to enter the home? To me this rules out extortion and robbery. I don't know.

How did they know the people at the party would not leave the party to check on why the Dermonds never showed up? Was that part of the thrill they got from murdering this couple, half expecting someone to show up while he was cutting off Mr. D's head?

I always think about a guard perhaps having a beef with Mr. D and they would know (I presume) who was gone from Lake Oconee for travel abroad and who was in town.... ??? They would know about the Derby Party too!

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

When I think of guards, I think a walmart cashier LOL....do they carry guns at the booth to GW? Or do they just wave people thru? But if he was just pissed and cut his head off, he forgot to take all the good and trash the house too

No, I dont believe it was anyone pissed off, JMO

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

typo above.....take all the goods and trash the house

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

maybe the D's tipped teh lampshade, ive only heard of the tipped lampshade in the youtube video, can't remember her name........never saw that in writing, is that true?

I think you are right about #1....These experts KNEW she would rise in 10 days due to the release of gases...........and the family didnt have to get a court order death certificate on her either

#2 could be true OR, it was ALSO MEANT to confuse the investigation.....the experts say this was carefully planned and executed............they knew each step of what they were doing

How do we know those prints are from the killers, SS SAID they have prints and dusted the house thoroughly til it was painted in fingerprint dust practically.....what does that tell us??

fingerprints were hard to find? that the ones the kept getting were family? IDK.....did they get any of the killer? No one knows yet, he just said they got all sorts of dna and fingerprints....did he say this for a reason? to make the community think he was on to smoething? Or did SS say this without clarity of WHOSE prints and dna he retrieved...he did say he'd lie or whatever it took to solve this case.....

and ...DId SS say recently if he knew he had unknown fingerprints or fibers? Ive not heard yet, would be interesting to know more about this

The DA's office having the special software puzzles me too! I would have expected the GBI or another agency to have the software.

Also from your link:



By December 2014 I would have expected the family to be completely cleared. Obviously there were unanswered questions by the family.

I have too many questions! Do we know for sure that the person spotted on the Dermond's property is white? Why was he shirtless? Like someone stated it could have been covered in blood and he removed it.

My thoughts differ from the profiler:

1. I think the person who did this only wanted Mrs. D's body to remain submerged long enough for him to get away. I think he wanted there to be a nationwide search for her. I think this excited him.

2. I think he liked the attention the case got for Mr. D's head being taken.

3. Also, if this person was so forensically aware then why did they leave the lampshade tilted? Also they did leave prints and fibers so they made mistakes forensically.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

has he questioned anyone in 2 1/2 years now since dec 2014? and the last people he questioned was the family?

maybe the D's tipped teh lampshade, ive only heard of the tipped lampshade in the youtube video, can't remember her name........never saw that in writing, is that true?

I think you are right about #1....These experts KNEW she would rise in 10 days due to the release of gases...........and the family didnt have to get a court order death certificate on her either

#2 could be true OR, it was ALSO MEANT to confuse the investigation.....the experts say this was carefully planned and executed............they knew each step of what they were doing

How do we know those prints are from the killers, SS SAID they have prints and dusted the house thoroughly til it was painted in fingerprint dust practically.....what does that tell us??

fingerprints were hard to find? that the ones the kept getting were family? IDK.....did they get any of the killer? No one knows yet, he just said they got all sorts of dna and fingerprints....did he say this for a reason? to make the community think he was on to smoething? Or did SS say this without clarity of WHOSE prints and dna he retrieved...he did say he'd lie or whatever it took to solve this case.....

and ...DId SS say recently if he knew he had unknown fingerprints or fibers? Ive not heard yet, would be interesting to know more about this

 

[fred&edna]

I also agree that whomever did this was aware about the Derby Party and the neighbor being out of the country (first time I have heard that though). But if they knew the D's would be attending the Derby Party, why not wait until they left for the party to enter the home? To me this rules out extortion and robbery. I don't know.

How did they know the people at the party would not leave the party to check on why the Dermonds never showed up? Was that part of the thrill they got from murdering this couple, half expecting someone to show up while he was cutting off Mr. D's head?

I always think about a guard perhaps having a beef with Mr. D and they would know (I presume) who was gone from Lake Oconee for travel abroad and who was in town.... ??? They would know about the Derby Party too!

'Just a quick thought about the tilted lampshade...

I've always believed the shade was titled by Mrs Dermond in order to better see the crossword puzzle. IIRC She was scheduled to have cataract surgery the following week and Mr Dermond had picked up her pre-surgery prescription eye drops and they were on the kitchen counter.

IMO.... It's possible Mrs Dermond always sat in a particular chair to do the crossword puzzle, read, etc AND, at least one of the killers knew this - in their mind the lampshade wasn't askew - it was in it's "typical" place. Thus, they didn't even think to "right it" back to it's proper position (as it was already in it's usual place).


ETA: I just realized I linked to the wrong post Can y'all pretend this was Boots' post #213, please.