GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - #11

[fred&edna]

I continue to waffle back n' forth as to whether the killers arrived by boat, or by car, or could they have approached the home separately - one by boat and the other in a car.

I found this post (Thread 1) by a satellite/home theatre installer who had customers in Reynolds Plantation/Great Waters. While he's not a verified insider... I tend to believe him... unless there are other locals who disagree.

RSBM

"Anyway, you can almost (99.95%) bank on the fact that the perpetrators came in by water. When I would service my customers there, you HAD to check in at the 24 hour manned gate. They would stop you, ask where you were going, check a list to see if someone had your name there and call the resident if you were not on the log (and many times, even then). They then assigned you a one day color-coded pass that you stuck so it could be seen under your windshield."

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...m-County-2-May-2014-1&p=10523375#post10523375

 

[colette]

wouldnt they have killed others in the area then?

Maybe they have killed more people, maybe they moved on to another area and using different methods of murder.

 

[fred&edna]

The first pic (Bing aerial photo) is obviously focused on 143 Carolyn Dr, but it's interesting to see the Dermond house in relation to neighboring homes.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/143-Carolyn-Dr-Eatonton-GA-31024/110311324_zpid/

 

[fred&edna]

Maybe they have killed more people, maybe they moved on to another area and using different methods of murder.

There is the Lois Colley case (Westchester NY)

Some similarities:

83 year old wife of millionaire McDonald's franchise owner

Murdered in her home... blunt force trauma

No forced entry.

Nothing taken from the home except for a small fire extinguisher (LE believes was murder weapon)

Still unsolved


https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/11/...county-socialite-was-murdered-police-say.html

http://www.my9nj.com/chasing-news/56984171-story

 

[watcher9]

There is the Lois Colley case (Westchester NY)

Some similarities:

83 year old wife of millionaire McDonald's franchise owner

Murdered in her home... blunt force trauma

No forced entry.

Nothing taken from the home except for a small fire extinguisher (LE believes was murder weapon)

Still unsolved


https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/11/...county-socialite-was-murdered-police-say.html

http://www.my9nj.com/chasing-news/56984171-story

Here is the WS link to this case.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ialite-beaten-to-death-North-Salem-9-Nov-2015

 

[fred&edna]

Added #9 and #10.

Would an illegitimate child leave the home in such pristine condition, especially if their mother had endured hardship w/o Mr. D's help? Just leaning toward the child would have wanted to destroy the home too. Maybe money was never a problem. They just hated Mr. D for being an absentee father. Great list BTW!!!

BBM This makes sense. I agree!

IMO, #7 on the list is the only selection that seems likely.

 

[wildebeest]

Let's do this:
UPDATED LIST:
1- angry grandchild........would have left a mess, like a druggee and would have taken things from the home and probalby not beheaded nor hauled SD off and dumped in lake

2-mafia hit.....would have come in and shot them both and left them were they fell

3-serial killer.......would have likely seen murders of the same nature before the D's and especially AFTER the D's in the area or atleast in the same state

4-drugee/neighbor kid.........would have left a mess in house and stolen items that were not stolen during this crime, probably taken all the liquor or as much as they could carry

5-extortion....would have come during the week so they could take the D's to the bank, saturday banks are half day or closed in GA....and atm machines only give you $300 per transaction

6- Robbers........would have shot them AND taken their wares and cash and tv's and stereo and computer (and liquor ) and other hockable items

7 -hired hit man--would confuse the investigation and leave no trace and would take head to conceal evidence.

8 - Illegitimate son of Mr. D--would've held on to extreme hatred for a rough life without financial help from a wealthy father. Would've had the attitude that he didn't need or want anything from them at this point in his life but wanted them to pay for their mistakes.......AND WOULDNT HAVE CARED IF THEY LEFT A DISASTER IN THE HOUSE

9 - Mistaken identity. Killer was supposed to kill the neighbors, but incorrect information was listed and they murdered the wrong people. although this information is easily accessed on tax records

10 - He could have loaned someone money without a paper trail for all we know and they killed him to get out of repayment but I dont think this kind of rage would be there.

What can we add or alter?


(looks like #7 would be most likely, what the community has been saying" if so, WHO HIRED THEM)

Repost please

I like # 7. Hired by a family member who wanted the money.

IMHO

 

[Razz]

I like # 7. Hired by a family member who wanted the money.

IMHO

I like #7 too. But I believe it was a message to one or two of the D's children saying, "We want our money now. If you don't get the money, your kids will be next". I think the D's were collateral damage.

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

I'm still trying to figure out why take Mrs D away from the crime scene of the garage, and weight her down in the lake, only to float up and become tethered to tree limbs growing out of the water? Why did the perp (s) not just leave her body in the garage along with Mr D? Was she taken FIRST, away from the home BEFORE the murder of Mr D? What was the point in separating the two Dermonds?

Exactly what was the point? IMO, they took Mrs. D away from the house in order to get her or Mr. D to talk. They wanted an answer from one of them as to something they wanted. Was it coins, cash, records, copies of birth certificates, deeds?????? Did they need a combination to a lock box, vault, safe, or maybe the name of someone that had the item(s) for safekeeping.. I think it was #7 but also a familiar presence was also on scene, which would explain the rage. Mrs. D. afraid not to talk as was Mr. D because they had them both in separate places to see who would talk first...Mrs. D never made it back home and poor Mr. D left in a horrific scene....sending a message to the safekeeper?????? JMO

The killer or killers wanted it to appear to LE that this crime was something it wasn't (an abduction for extortion or ransom).

It didn't matter to the killers if Mrs D's body was ever found for life insurance purposes because wealthy elderly individuals don't pay for life insurance. (They don't need life insurance.)

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

Let's do this:
UPDATED LIST:
1- angry grandchild........would have left a mess, like a druggee and would have taken things from the home and probalby not beheaded nor hauled SD off and dumped in lake

2-mafia hit.....would have come in and shot them both and left them were they fell

3-serial killer.......would have likely seen murders of the same nature before the D's and especially AFTER the D's in the area or atleast in the same state

4-drugee/neighbor kid.........would have left a mess in house and stolen items that were not stolen during this crime, probably taken all the liquor or as much as they could carry

5-extortion....would have come during the week so they could take the D's to the bank, saturday banks are half day or closed in GA....and atm machines only give you $300 per transaction

6- Robbers........would have shot them AND taken their wares and cash and tv's and stereo and computer (and liquor ) and other hockable items

7 -hired hit man--would confuse the investigation and leave no trace and would take head to conceal evidence.

8 - Illegitimate son of Mr. D--would've held on to extreme hatred for a rough life without financial help from a wealthy father. Would've had the attitude that he didn't need or want anything from them at this point in his life but wanted them to pay for their mistakes.......AND WOULDNT HAVE CARED IF THEY LEFT A DISASTER IN THE HOUSE

9 - Mistaken identity. Killer was supposed to kill the neighbors, but incorrect information was listed and they murdered the wrong people. although this information is easily accessed on tax records

10 - He could have loaned someone money without a paper trail for all we know and they killed him to get out of repayment but I dont think this kind of rage would be there.

What can we add or alter?


(looks like #7 would be most likely, what the community has been saying" if so, WHO HIRED THEM)

Repost please

ATM withdrawal transactions can be set for FAR more than $300.

I'm going with #7.

 

[fred&edna]

(I'm not sure it matters but... ) this report states MrD didn't have an ATM card

"They lived a remarkably simple life, Sills said. Russell Dermond only had two credit cards and put everything on those to rack up rewards points. He didn’t even have an ATM card as he never carried cash, the sheriff said."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/georgia-couple-killing-leaves-authorities-baffled-article-1.1828839

 

[fred&edna]

Thoughts (incomplete) as I dash off to work this morning:

Forensically-smart

Disciplined/planner

Familiar with M/M D and their home

Boater

Gun/Knife enthusiast

What did they bring to Dermond home? Gun, cement blocks

Did they bring decap tools or did they use tools found in Dermond home or garage?

What “valuable item/s” did they attempt to extort?

If no military background... what about a perp with law enforcement background?? Or medical background??

 

[Deleted member 162919]

Here's another case that hasn't been mentioned http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-0620-inglewood-decapitation-20150620-story.html

 

[Deleted member 162919]

Here's another case that hasn't been mentioned http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-0620-inglewood-decapitation-20150620-story.html if you look up info on this case there is none that I could find. you'd think this would make national news

 

[watcher9]

Here's another case that hasn't been mentioned http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-0620-inglewood-decapitation-20150620-story.html if you look up info on this case there is none that I could find. you'd think this would make national news

Here is WS link on this case.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...5-blind-found-beheaded-Inglewood-18-June-2015

 

[watcher9]

Let's do this:
UPDATED LIST:
1- angry grandchild........would have left a mess, like a druggee and would have taken things from the home and probalby not beheaded nor hauled SD off and dumped in lake

2-mafia hit.....would have come in and shot them both and left them were they fell

3-serial killer.......would have likely seen murders of the same nature before the D's and especially AFTER the D's in the area or atleast in the same state

4-drugee/neighbor kid.........would have left a mess in house and stolen items that were not stolen during this crime, probably taken all the liquor or as much as they could carry

5-extortion....would have come during the week so they could take the D's to the bank, saturday banks are half day or closed in GA....and atm machines only give you $300 per transaction

6- Robbers........would have shot them AND taken their wares and cash and tv's and stereo and computer (and liquor ) and other hockable items

7 -hired hit man--would confuse the investigation and leave no trace and would take head to conceal evidence.

8 - Illegitimate son of Mr. D--would've held on to extreme hatred for a rough life without financial help from a wealthy father. Would've had the attitude that he didn't need or want anything from them at this point in his life but wanted them to pay for their mistakes.......AND WOULDNT HAVE CARED IF THEY LEFT A DISASTER IN THE HOUSE

9 - Mistaken identity. Killer was supposed to kill the neighbors, but incorrect information was listed and they murdered the wrong people. although this information is easily accessed on tax records

10 - He could have loaned someone money without a paper trail for all we know and they killed him to get out of repayment but I dont think this kind of rage would be there.

What can we add or alter?


(looks like #7 would be most likely, what the community has been saying" if so, WHO HIRED THEM)

Repost please

That's the question. Who hired them? They had no enemies and money apparently wasn't a problem with their children. The children sold their parents' home at a loss just to get rid of it because none would ever want to visit there again after what had happened. And that's what I can't agree with #7 or any of the others either.

Maybe we should add something to the list like shock value - not necessarily a gang initiation - but just the mentality of cruelty that runs through the world nowadays. Maybe it's just a game - pick out a victim/s, plan it out and execute it without getting caught. Not for money - just for thrills!

Take the case from CA listed above.

Take another case, this one from TX - WS link

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...d-decapitated-Angleton-27-April-2016-*Arrest*

 

[fred&edna]

That's the question. Who hired them? They had no enemies and money apparently wasn't a problem with their children. The children sold their parents' home at a loss just to get rid of it because none would ever want to visit there again after what had happened. And that's what I can't agree with #7 or any of the others either.

Maybe we should add something to the list like shock value - not necessarily a gang initiation - but just the mentality of cruelty that runs through the world nowadays. Maybe it's just a game - pick out a victim/s, plan it out and execute it without getting caught. Not for money - just for thrills!

Take the case from CA listed above.

Take another case, this one from TX - WS link

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...d-decapitated-Angleton-27-April-2016-*Arrest*

Do you think the CA and the TX cases are thrill killings, also?

 

[Bootsctr]

The CA case, to me, is eerily similar to the Dermonds. IIRC, Jubal's killer was heavy into drugs. Plus Jubal was living out of his truck under the bridge to save money. Scary dude and I am glad he was caught relatively quickly. I think he was sloppy. He must have left prints or DNA or both.

I had not heard anything about Mr. Hollis' case until you posted the link! Very similar in that Mr. Hollis had to have let his killer into his apartment. Nothing taken. Still unsolved! It seems to be someone very much in control of the situation at hand.

Likewise, SS has said:

"The killers, he believes, were driven by personal animus, perhaps their own, perhaps on behalf of someone else.

“I am convinced that the people who killed the Dermonds knew the Dermonds,” Sills said. “They knew the house to some extent. They’d been there before.”

http://www.myajc.com/news/local-gov...C_internallink_0506015_AJCtoMyAJC_oconeedeath

TY to fred&edna for posting these links earlier in the thread!

Also, I just caught the two articles contradicting themselves as far as the Person Of Interest, AJC says he and WSB says she, so WTH?

The article dated 05/05/2015 seems pretty clear that SS is/was pursing the retribution angle hard:

He says the interview (with the POI/female) yielded the name of an ex-employee with hard feelings for the couple from years ago, but after further investigation, they found out that person is dead.

“That’s the way hundreds of leads in this investigation have gone,” Sills said.

Now, the sheriff says he has the name of another former employee he plans to interview.

Sills says this person of interest is not deterring efforts to find other potential suspects."

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/exclusive-sheriff-has-person-interest-murder-behea/53884408

This leads me to think that the children are aware of someone who had such a hate for the D's and they're too scared to say a name because it would put their own families in jeopardy (spouses and children) of having the same "retribution" that their parents received.

Even if the motive was not robbery, how many people could resist leaving a Rolex and some fine whiskey, and instead taking Mr. D's head and Mrs. D's body?

 

[fred&edna]

Even if the motive was not robbery, how many people could resist leaving a Rolex and some fine whiskey, and instead taking Mr. D's head and Mrs. D's body?

I know, right?! You'd think at least one of the perps wouldn't be able to resist taking an item or two. So, maybe the killers could afford these things on their own... or maybe already owned better? Or the hostility (or "animus" per SS) was far greater than the desire to grab the expensive watches or bourbon.


Also, here's a comment by SS regarding fear associated with this case:

“I’ve never dealt with a case where so many people were reluctant to talk,” he said. “They’re reluctant because they’re afraid they’re going to get their heads cut off. There’s a lot of fear.”

https://patch.com/georgia/cartersvi...t-continues-for-suspect-in-husbands-beheading


'Seems as if the Dermonds (or their family) actually had an enemy but no one will talk about it.

 

[watcher9]

Do you think the CA and the TX cases are thrill killings, also?

I don't know. Maybe thrill is not the right word. Stabbing someone to death is killing, beheading is a whole other level.

On the TX case, there was no motive released yet on why the perp killed and cut off the victim's head. The victim and the perp were not known to each other. No money was taken out of the wallet so there was no robbery. Don't know what he did with the head. If he was just out to kill someone, he could have just stabbed him to death.

I don't know about the CA case because no one has been arrested yet and no suspect.

On the Dermond case, I don't get the reason why towels were used. Were the towels from the home or brought there? Could Mr Dermond have had the towels in his hands when he was accosted? If the body was midway in the garage between the two cars, the blood would have congealed before running out of the garage and they said it wasn't much blood there anyway. Did the towels prop up the neck for easy cutting? A hit-man wouldn't have bothered with any towels. What if the towels was used by the killer to kneel on? I wonder if they were able to get touch DNA off of the towels?