GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 3

[Destini]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/05/18/missing-georgia-wife-beheaded-man/9255485/

The video at this link includes a short interview with the fisherman, Dennis Higgs, that I hadn't seen before.

 

[steelman]

This is a great article. It answers a whole lot of questions about what the cops know and what they suspect. Before anybody comes up with any new theories, read this for insight.

http://www.arcamax.com/currentnews/newsheadlines/s-1524806?fs

 

[Rhyolite]

Working Theories

I am a bit confused by the many theories running concurrently on these threads. Could someone take the time and summarize the working theories that exist as well as supporting factual evidence? If something is just an assumption, just lay it out as such.

Maybe if one person cannot do them all, each who has a theory to present could lay it out top to bottom without the rest of us digging back through the threads. Thoughts?

It sure would be helpful in sorting this case out.

Extra bonus points for the first two theories.

 

[Bootsctr]

Maybe the victims were banged against an object like driveway pavers or a garage door frame?

Perhaps a brick. Episode of "Cold Justice" featured an unsolved murder of an elderly woman. No arrests for many years. Murder weapon never found. The ladies returned to the scene of the crime and found a brick which they were able to match up with autopsy photos of Ms. Mattie Williams. Sad case as one of her sons was involved.

"The 2006 death of Mattie Williams in Collinston, Louisiana is investigated. On August 28, 2006, a friend of Mattie's went to her home after receiving no response to repeated attempts to reach her. The friend noticed blood on the outside wall of the house and called the police, who found no trace of Mattie inside. Many of Mattie's church friends and family gathered to search for her. She was found six hours later, stabbed and bludgeoned to death, in a remote wooded area about three miles from her home. Three men, including Mattie's own son, were indicted for the second-degree murder of Mattie. The 3 accused are currently in jail awaiting trial."

 

[Bethanthony]

My guess is the tool in the beheading was a machete. It is really common in Mexico to do most of the landscaping duties with a machete. It isn't unusual in tropical areas to see landscaping teams using them on palms and bamboo.

From the information we have received via the press, the first and only group to have been administered lie- detector tests were the landscapers.

 

[SmoothOperator]

The polygraphs, of maintenance workers with access inside Reynolds Plantation, where the couple lived, turned up nothing new, he said.
http://m.ajc.com/news/news/local/decapitation-mystery-reward-offered-for-missing-ea/nfwqX/

Are these the only polygraphs that've been reported as taking place in this investigation? Just curious as to what degree the polygraphs were being used in this case. In just keeping up via media articles, I guess this is the only persons I've seen been stated as having been polygraphed, maintenance workers with access into Reynold's Plantation.. I wonder how many people that would be that fit that particular criteria?.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

NO, i think someoen would have found her before now if she was placed on a tree limb,

i think she was meant to be tangled in the underwater roots and limbs adn the many fish there woudl take care of it and the head is in there I bet

Also think that because it was stated in an article last, that the head may not be able to be found becuase of the many tree roots and bramble under there

I'm not an avid fisherman but have been around, i think the area would be more for fisherman to leave their lines out all night on a jug, whats that called and i thnk for sure i wouldnt' be draggig a line thru that mess, BUT ONLY SURFACE FISHING, fisherman know they'll get tangled in that if it's as bad as LE said about not being able to find the head due to all the tree roots

that being said, no one would have snagged her if she were under there likely

If they wanted them found they'd have left them both at the house or hung them from a tree there to make a statement

i think the moving of her was to waylay the investigation

but the beheading is what the LE is looking at mostly I think

of course they have to follow thru with everything

JMO, i've slept on it and have a whole new view, errr, rather my beginning views and it's getting clearer to me

but I may be WRONG but that's how i feel !!

That would depend how frequently someone went in this area and even if they had passed by in a boat since she was up in the tree line she may have not been noticed by others. It seems the reason these fishermen spotted her is they were going to fish in this particular area/spot of Lake Oconee.

I can only go by what Sheriff Sills says and he says her body was placed there. Placed there means that is where the murderer intended the victim to stay put. The only way that could possibly happen is to make her stationary by tying some kind of rope to her body and affixing it to the trees. Imo, he would not have said she was placed there if he saw she had just become tangled up in the trees. He is a pretty straight shooter when he says something. He means just what he says. Imo.

If she was not placed there then they wouldn't know if he may have put her in at another location and she drifted to that spot and got caught up in the trees. But he clearly says she was placed where she was found.

The fisherman who found her didn't mention putting lines out. They said they were fishing in the area and noticed what they thought at first was a buoy.

I do fish and most of the time that is where I fish and fisherman fish around the tree lines and water's edge quite frequently. The water tends to be shallower near the bank but can be cooler water since its shaded and often the fish will make their fish beds in these areas close to the bank.

They had this all figured out from the very beginning. They put her in this specific area because they knew all the searchers would be looking in Putnam County for her. It gave them ample opportunity to tie her body up in the tree line without being detected. They did want her to be found eventually or they wouldn't have brought her to that particular place where she stayed for 11 days until found. Imo he knew eventually someone would find her.

I think the profilers are looking at everything in its totality. Each thing they find new gives them more information on the killer. If he tied her to a tree even the knot he tied can reveal things about him depending on the type of knot he used.

I really don't think the police expect to find his head. They know there is a very good likelihood they will never find it.

 

[Foxfire]

Detectives interview lake subdivision residents in Putnam murder investigation

Detectives interviewed more than 200 residents of Putnam County’s Great Waters subdivision Sunday, asking what they might have seen during the time when authorities believe Russell and Shirley Dermond were killed earlier this month.

Read more here: http://www.macon.com/2014/05/18/310...ke-subdivision.html?sp=/99/148/#storylink=cpy​

Thanx for sharing Destini.. A little tip for Sheriff Sills, 'Folks have a right to be scared until this predator/s are apprehended.. Predators are recidivist....

Thought this was very interesting. Bring in 35 detectives from GA Sheriff Agencies who don't have a clue(nepotism), nor do they want one imo, yet refuse to invite in the very experienced and professional GBI special agents;
<sniped for Focus & BBM>

Thirty-five detectives from various middle Georgia sheriff’s offices and 22 FBI agents interviewed the residents at the subdivision’s club house, said Sheriff Howard Sills.

“It was quite an undertaking,” he said.

Along with asking whether the residents were home or if they saw anything suspicious, authorities also sought to put them at ease following the elderly couple’s killing.

“People were very scared right after this happened,” Sills said.

Although the interviews didn’t yield a major development in the case, Sills called them “productive.”

 

[Advocate1]

Primary reason the GBI should be invited in by Sheriff Sills, to assist in the high profile Dermond investigation is that all available investigative resources should be utilized/welcomed. If this case grows cold, this decision could be political suicide, imo.

Putnam County (Sheriffs)Election Primary 05/06/2014
http://www.wrebfm.com/putnam-county-election-results-and-interviews/

He is utilizing the GBI crime labs and has involved the FBI who offered the reward for Shirley. In a crime of this nature with the subtle markings of organized crime I can completely understand the Sheriff bypassing GBI and working with the Feds.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

My guess is the tool in the beheading was a machete. It is really common in Mexico to do most of the landscaping duties with a machete. It isn't unusual in tropical areas to see landscaping teams using them on palms and bamboo.

From the information we have received via the press, the first and only group to have been administered lie- detector tests were the landscapers.

Machetes are also used a lot in the south. We use them to cut low growing brush back. We have three and we keep them very sharp incase we need to use them.

Also surveyors use them all the time when they are having to go through a lot of brush trying to get a site line.

I do think if the cut was clean it was probably done with a very sharp machete.

 

[Canaille]

I just paid a visit to the Daily Mail online article and noticed that the family photos seem to have been removed.

This leads me to question... How much control, if any, does the FBI have of the internet? Do they have an over ride access to sites such as FB, the Daily Mail, or other search engines in order to remove any info or photos that may be detrimental to a case?

Which also makes me wonder if that could be a reason for Sills to go directly to the Fed, if they have such capability.

I just feel that there are similarities in SM between the Heather Elvis case this case where lots of FB posts and photos are missing, leaving gaps.

 

[Scoop7]

Hi all- I'm new here - also from GA. This is a very disturbing case and I can't get it off my mind.

Just thinking about the known killer vs. unknown/hit man.

The D's had the upper hand being in their home. To those walking up unfamiliar with it, one could assume it to be locked, with an alarm, maybe video surveillance, a protective dog or a gun owner. So how would a killer unfamiliar with them or their home get in without forced entry or get them out without a struggle or any alert to police if at a time when they're likely awake? Not saying it isn't possible, but if this was planned and the killer did not want to get caught, seems bold and high-risk for a stranger using a water escape on a Friday evening, imo. I guess it could still be a pro hit, assuming the person took the time to get comfortable with them, the property/area, lake, etc. ahead of time. But seems like too much time investment for a mafia/cartel issue - or maybe I've watched too many movies.

I'm thinking it is someone they've met - or someone very good at acting so they had no reason to be afraid. Gives me the willies thinking this creep is free right now.

Anyway, I was also wondering about garage location and thinking that the killer could have docked unannounced and used an emergency excuse - like running out of gas for boat - something that would make Mr. D go into his garage to get a tool or gas can, etc. The garage would allow a private spot to murder without alerting Mrs. D. She could've known he was out there helping the person, but wasn't worried because they did not seem to pose a threat, and therefore did not think to call police or set off the alarm.

Side note: You guys are great and any time I've been looking for updates on this, I've found the best compilation of information here. Thanks for sharing.



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[momrids6]

My guess is the tool in the beheading was a machete. It is really common in Mexico to do most of the landscaping duties with a machete. It isn't unusual in tropical areas to see landscaping teams using them on palms and bamboo.

From the information we have received via the press, the first and only group to have been administered lie- detector tests were the landscapers.

They are really common here in GA too- the palmetto bushes, tall grasses/weeds and kudzu. Also, can't forget sportsmen's knives- for hunting/ fishing.

 

[Rhyolite]

Are these the only polygraphs that've been reported as taking place in this investigation? Just curious as to what degree the polygraphs were being used in this case. In just keeping up via media articles, I guess this is the only persons I've seen been stated as having been polygraphed, maintenance workers with access into Reynold's Plantation.. I wonder how many people that would be that fit that particular criteria?.

I am curious about that as well. It would seem they should have a pretty good theory before going to that effort. Maybe the security staff got scrutinized, especially if the cameras didn't work. But polygraphing the lawn staff seems a bit far reaching.

 

[Advocate1]

There is nothing accidental or random to this at all. It has all the markings of a mob or possibly drug cartel hit .

Street code everywhere is you don't mess with women, children or the elderly.
It does obviously happen but the chances that it was an organized hit made by a shot caller is pretty slim.

 

[Solitaryone]

I wonder if LE gave polygraphs to the Dermond's family, and everyone else close to them.

 

[Bootsctr]

You’re thinking like I have been thinking - who will benefit from the deaths of Mr. and Mrs. Dermond? was Mr. Dermond a member of any entity that has voting (HOA is one example), was someone looking to eliminate his vote/support/non support? We have a HOA and years ago things got very crazy with anger built up. Thank God the issues resolved themselves with time but, at one time the HOA and neighbors were in a very uncomfortable situation - like I said anger, trying to sway voting, putting for sale by owner signs in yards to scare off buyers, one creepy neighbor provided us with a stake and sign to put in our yard and even said he would install it for us (hint, hint). Could there have been anger and resentment due to a real estate issue? You would not believe the HOA drama unless you’ve been through it. Anger, resentment, plus drugs and/or alcohol equals people who start thinking and doing crazy things. MOO

I have read some of the HOA rules and regulations or bylaws. Definitely could cause some friction between neighbors who were sticklers for the rules and others who tried to get by with not playing by the rules.

Off topic a bit: Monday night 9:00 Central is the season finale of Fear Thy Neighbor. Welcome to the Murder Street. "A well-to-do man takes an argument to a new level when he hires a hit man to kill his neighbor." Sounds interesting. Gonna put that on the DVR to record.

 

[tomkat]

it sent a message to EVERYONE, ANYONE, ALL INVOLVED in MO

They win, whether they lose or won, THEY WIN

and the message is clear

I dont' know how they did it exactly

but clearly they did

According to the article:

While hard evidence, and firm conclusions, remain elusive, former FBI profiler Clint Van Zandt said there is good reason to believe the killers -- at least two or three, he said, a conviction Sills shares -- will be captured.

At least two or three killers? I don't know what to think. Nothing taken from the house -- just doesn't make sense why at least 2 perps would do this. I thought it was interesting too that LE stresses that the killers seemed to be trying to send a message. Is it possible that Mr. D's headless body was left to send a strong message to someone and took Mrs. D with the intention of making someone do what they wanted in the hopes that she would be brought back alive? Hope this makes sense. They wouldn't have to make a ransom demand because they would be communicating this way. Except everyone would know that Mrs. D would be able to identify them if she were returned alive. I don't know. Also, I wonder if Mrs. D was wearing her wedding rings when found; in other words it doesn't seem this was necessarily for money.

 

[Xara]

thanks treelights! I am thinking that retired older folk who have routine's such as daily walks, bridge clubs, etc probably fetch their mail and paper in a somewhat routine fashion. Based on that I am thinking they were killed sometime May 2, prior to getting ready for bed.

I totally agree.

 

[Rhyolite]

I just paid a visit to the Daily Mail online article and noticed that the family photos seem to have been removed.

(nip)

The Daily Mail should be completely ignored as a source of "facts". It is on par with the Enquirer. I know for a fact that during the first Gulf war, some folks in the UK used a reporter on the staff to "leak" propaganda.