GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 3

[tomkat]

If someone was hired to "hit' and it wasn't done properly, the killer might be dead now too,

A mob hit isn't going to decapitate, and the bodies aren't typically going to be found if an attempt to conceal is made. A thrill killing would typically not attempt to conceal the deed at all. A robbery/homicide would include a robbery. This was planned, but clearly not well and not all the way through, IMO. Seems like lots of improvisation after the deed was done. This was personal, and with a lot of pent up hatred, IMO. Probably years and years of resentment. Only a few types of folks who fit that bill, and they're all generally very, very close to the victim.

JMO.

 

[Treelights]

I hope they confirm(ed) how theirs is delivered. Mine ( I live in S GA ) is a day behind- I get Thursday's paper on Friday

How will USA TODAY be delivered?
Depending on where you live, you will receive USA TODAY by either carrier delivery (to your home or office in the morning) or via the US Postal Service. Although the majority of USA TODAY subscriptions are delivered either by carrier or same-day mail, some areas may be delivered by the US Postal Service on a delay. If you have questions about how your subscription will be delivered, please call us at 1-800-872-0001 (M-F 8:00AM - 7:00PM ET).

http://service.usatoday.com/faq/utfaq.jsp#section3

I found 2 links that describe the newspapers:
http://www.morgancountycitizen.com/lake-murder-shocks-community/
"If you don’t own a television set, computer or radio, you may not know that a friend of the Dermonds found Russell’s decapitated body in the garage of his Great Waters residence in Putnam County on Tuesday, May 6, by a friend who was concerned that the Dermonds had not attended a scheduled party in the exclusive, gated–community on Saturday night and that newspapers had begun piling up on the couple’s driveway."

http://www.msgr.com/news/local_news/article_58fc8010-db9a-11e3-990e-0019bb2963f4.html
"The couple’s mail and newspapers had begun to stack up and they were missed at a Kentucky Derby Day party they had been expected to attend May 3."


The first link mentions papers piling up on the driveway, second link mentions that the mail and newspapers had begun to stack up.

 

[tomkat]

She was wearing regular everyday clothes when they found her body.

has it been reported what he was wearing? for sure this time......

 

[1&2&3]

http://m.msgr.com/mobile/news/article_5a998b5a-dbb5-11e3-9e5d-001a4bcf887a.html

Houston, we have a problem. The Dermonds have nine grandchildren, as stated in the obituary.

I can only count eight.

In response to alpine, this is the post that got me to counting grandchildren too. The nine count came from Mr. D's obituary, and I knew from my reading, that only eight were visible. So, what does a person do?

Following the rules, and not wanting a TOS, I believe the ninth grand was definitely found.

 

[Advocate1]

I honor and respect your opinion Advocate1, but the reason Sheriff Howard Sills hasn't invited in the GBI is due to his ego, imo.. Why else would you squander a very valuable and free investigative resource? A very valuable investigative resource was squandered in the Adam Walsh investigation. That is why it went cold for two and a half decades. Once the neglected resource was given the file to re-investigate. The case was finally resolved..

Imo, this crime has absolutely no signs/markings/indications of organized crime, imo. A professional would have made a clean hit on both victims at the same location.
There was an obvious motive Mrs. D was taken to another location, imo.
There will be a direct or indirect meth connection, imo..

I think the suggestion that GBI was not asked to assist is being played up.

They have used GBI profilers and their crime lab.

http://m.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/channel-2-joins-dnr-survey-lake-near-putnam-co-cou/nfswy/

 

[Treelights]

has it been reported what he was wearing? for sure this time......

I haven't heard about it yet.
Interesting to note that we know what Shirley was wearing (every day clothes),
but we don't know if Russell was clothed or what kind of clothes he was wearing.
IMOO.

 

[momrids6]

Thanks for that info. 4:30pm is late in the day to have to wait for your newspaper!

They may get the Atlanta Journal Constitution or another local paper in the morning.

There is a branch USA Today office in Norcross GA; so they probably receive their USA Today same day mail. Of course, someone can call and check tomorrow.

 

[tomkat]

I haven't heard about it yet.
Interesting to note that we know what Shirley was wearing (every day clothes),
but we don't know if Russell was clothed or what kind of clothes he was wearing.
IMOO.

Yes that would help and stomach contents if at all possible, I know it was days later, not sure how that works during that time frame


thanks!

 

[Backwoods]

I am starting to believe this was a rage murder also. A hit man, mob, cartel would have come better prepared, I'm thinking with a gun. Killing someone by hitting them in the head sounds like anger. Decapitation extreme anger. But taking the head with them sounds like a crazy person.

I'm so afraid Mrs. D was taken to a house somewhere & God knows what happened.

Unlike a lot of folks, I'm thinking this all started Saturday, during the day. I think maybe Mr. D. was killed first -- some incident sparked a rageful reaction. Maybe in the garage, the yard, at the dock, on a boat...? The perp struck him in the head somehow -- using something that the perp feared left material or marks that could tie the death to him. Not sure perp removed the head right away -- maybe, but also perp thought "Now I have to deal with Mrs. D." -- because she knew or would have suspected who Mr. D. was last seen with or could describe the person or whatever. Having just killed someone relatively easily by a blow to the head, the perp chooses another, less personal item to strike a death blow to Mrs. D. (It might have been at this point that he went back to Mr. D. and removed his head to hide evidence.)

I guess perp could have taken Mrs. D. away somewhere, alive, for a while, while he pondered what to do. But I certainly hope she was not held, Destini.

 

[momrids6]

I found 2 links that describe the newspapers:
http://www.morgancountycitizen.com/lake-murder-shocks-community/
"If you don’t own a television set, computer or radio, you may not know that a friend of the Dermonds found Russell’s decapitated body in the garage of his Great Waters residence in Putnam County on Tuesday, May 6, by a friend who was concerned that the Dermonds had not attended a scheduled party in the exclusive, gated–community on Saturday night and that newspapers had begun piling up on the couple’s driveway."

http://www.msgr.com/news/local_news/article_58fc8010-db9a-11e3-990e-0019bb2963f4.html
"The couple’s mail and newspapers had begun to stack up and they were missed at a Kentucky Derby Day party they had been expected to attend May 3."


The first link mentions papers piling up on the driveway, second link mentions that the mail and newspapers had begun to stack up.

The Eatonton Messenger is delivered daily....

http://www.msgr.com/site/services/

 

[Advocate1]

I definitely understand what you are saying, but I don't think this was a planned or targeted crime. I totally believe it was a crime of rage and was set off by something that happened that night between Mr. D and someone he encountered on his property. Someone that should not have been there and Mr. D was trying to run them off. Could have been unsavory individuals and maybe drugs were involved too. Mr. D made them really mad and they retaliated. Not a hit, but a rage murder. jmo

When I think along these lines I think more towards drug trafficking/deliveries via the lake.

The killers wanted to send a message so there has to be a receiving target.
It very well could be the community and neighbors. Only they know if they have a drug problem on the lake.

 

[Backwoods]

has it been reported what he was wearing? for sure this time......

No, it hasn't.

 

[Red Swords]

Hi, I have been watching the discussion here and tryin to keep up. This is my first post..
I worked at GW in 1998 and 1999 in the Golf Pro Shop. I remember that many times there was no one at the gaurd shack. And when they were, as along as they saw your sticker pass, they just waved you in with no questons asked, didnt matter who the passengers were and they checked no ID's. The road that leads up to GW's is a country Rd. On both sides of the entrance to the property is horse pasture with a wooden fence. Very easy for anyone in the dark to walk to the far edge of the pasture and jump the fence. And as you know, the property is heavily wooded in many sections. For what these people pay for membership dues, I wouldnt call this security. Now the RP development is and always was alot harder to get in to. GW's has cabin rentals right inside the property. I hope LE are checking this out, As far as people playing golf who dont live there, they had to either be with a resident that has a member number or be from the RP side. Everyone playing golf has to check in. That was my job back then to check players in. I cant imagine anyone living there doing this to the Dermonds, as the people there were very down to earth. But then again.... who knows..

Also, I thought I understood that Mr D was killed somewhere else other than the property... Does anyone have a link for that? If so, and he was later placed in the garage, why wouldnt the cadaver dogs pick something up? It seems there would have been a trail but they say they found nothing in the yard. Wouldnt you think that a newly beheaded body would leave quite a mess while moving it?

 

[mck16]

has it been reported what he was wearing? for sure this time......

Not to my knowledge. Haven't seen that reported.

 

[tomkat]

And Why was it done on their property and near the property?
I think this might have to do with the real estate or the area that they live.
If it were a hit, they could have killed the Dermonds elsewhere.
Shirley was known to play bridge twice a week. Russell was spotted shopping I believe previously and he walks, too.. so both were out and about in their lives previous to their murders.
It seems like this was very demonstrative, and it was important to the killer(s) that Russell was found beheaded in the garage, and Shirley found less than 5 miles away.
IMOO.

There was an interesting video in the earlier thread, will try to find it, his name was clemente , i believe a former FBI agent and/or psychologist

stated that murders that happen in the home are done by a more sophisticated criminal

ones on the streets, like in macon, are street thugs, driveby shootings

just noting differences I've heard or noticed

 

[Backwoods]

Hi, I have been watching the discussion here and tryin to keep up. This is my first post..
I worked at GW in 1998 and 1999 in the Golf Pro Shop. I remember that many times there was no one at the gaurd shack. And when they were, as along as they saw your sticker pass, they just waved you in with no questons asked, didnt matter who the passengers were and they checked no ID's. The road that leads up to GW's is a country Rd. On both sides of the entrance to the property is horse pasture with a wooden fence. Very easy for anyone in the dark to walk to the far edge of the pasture and jump the fence. And as you know, the property is heavily wooded in many sections. For what these people pay for membership dues, I wouldnt call this security. Now the RP development is and always was alot harder to get in to. GW's has cabin rentals right inside the property. I hope LE are checking this out, As far as people playing golf who dont live there, they had to either be with a resident that has a member number or be from the RP side. Everyone playing golf has to check in. That was my job back then to check players in. I cant imagine anyone living there doing this to the Dermonds, as the people there were very down to earth. But then again.... who knows..

Also, I thought I understood that Mr D was killed somewhere else other than the property... Does anyone have a link for that? If so, and he was later placed in the garage, why wouldnt the cadaver dogs pick something up? It seems there would have been a trail but they say they found nothing in the yard. Wouldnt you think that a newly beheaded body would leave quite a mess while moving it?

:welcome:

Welcome to Websleuths, Red Swords!

The sheriff did make some statements that indicated he doubted that Mr. D. was killed where he was found.

I'm not sure we've really been made completely privy to what the HRD dogs may and may not have done. It was kind of glossed over, I'd say, in MSM. Interesting question, though.

Perhaps he was not moved to the garage (if he was) for a time after the beheading -- and perp may have wrapped body to move.

 

[osu]

Yikes, just thought of a possibility that I don't think we've discussed before: That one or both of the Dermonds might have voluntarily gotten into a boat with someone -- ostensibly for fishing or just a pleasure ride. Someone they knew, of course.

Maybe someone pulled up to the dock in a boat while Mr and Mrs Dermond were outside (working, sitting) in their yard? Maybe the person who recently purchased the Dermond's boat? They offered to show them all of the improvements they'd made to the boat and offered to take them for a short ride on the lake. The Dermond's may have just left the front door of the house unlocked if they felt they would only be away for a just short time.

 

[tomkat]

I posted that video at end of this thread quoting crowbar

to my knowledge the business about Mr. D being in PJs came from an unverified member claiming inside knowledge from an unnamed source (ie. not even close to factual by WS standards).

Add to that that we now know thanks to the horse's mouth (sheriff Sill) that Mrs. D was wearing "everyday" clothing I tend to believe both were clothed in their normal daytime apparel and not dressed for bed or for an evening out.

I take we have still never found any direct quote attributable to the Sheriff or ME about the weapon indeed being a crow or pry type bar? So far all I could find was the reporter (Ms. Artz) who said LE were looking for a crowbar.

So for now, I am thinking much broader to any sort of instrument that could cause blunt force trauma but lead LE to believe it was an instrument of some sort and not someones hands or fists. I do believe LE are looking for some instrument. I just don't tend to believe it is crowbar specific til they themselves say so.

Not my first rodeo with the press, the facts, and how one wrong or mistaken comment from a reporter becomes instant fact for threads and threads.

 

[Flutterflies]

:welcome: Red Swords! :welcome: to Websleuths!

Thanks for sharing your personal work experience at GW.

 

[Backwoods]

Just thinking -- Mr. D.'s autopsy may have given LE some more clues about whether Mr. D. had been moved. (Livor mortis, I think?) I hope not too much time had gone by for that to be helpful.

REALLY hoping that the autopsies were able to help determine whether there was a good little space of time between the two deaths. But I don't know whether being able to estimate any kind of narrowed windows for times of death is likely, circumstances being as they are.