GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 3

[tomkat]

crowbar video

video about crowbar someone earlier up inquired about, may be already posted

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/source-investigators-find-body-putnam-county/nfyK5/

 

[Plumeria5]

Just thinking -- Mr. D.'s autopsy may have given LE some more clues about whether Mr. D. had been moved. (Livor mortis, I think?) I hope not too much time had gone by for that to be helpful.

REALLY hoping that the autopsies were able to help determine whether there was a good little space of time between the two deaths. But I don't know whether being able to estimate any kind of narrowed windows for times of death is likely, circumstances being as they are.

I just Googled "livor mortis" photos, probably shouldn't have. Oh my.

 

[Backwoods]

I just Googled "livor mortis" photos, probably shouldn't have. Oh my.

Sorry about that, Plumeria5!

 

[tomkat]

I don't know if it is anything significant, but according to homesnap.com there is an aerial google view with property lines shown. The way I see it on the map, the buildings next door cross the property lines. The home on the market now was on the market for a full year, then removed according to Coldwell-Banker then relisted again this January again.

Am I crazy?

JMO's

http://www.homesnap.com/GA/Eatonton/147-Carolyn-Drive

with COLDwell bankers ? Still and again?? THATS interesting

I'm still thinking about that Real Estate agaent that drowned 2 days after RD was discovered ! She worked for coldwell bankers ! May be nothing but I can't quit thinking about her "accidental drowning" as it was ruled

 

[Plumeria5]

Sorry about that, Plumeria5!

No problem! I thought you were saying rigor mortis and just spelled it wrong. :facepalm:

 

[Red Swords]

I really hope they find the head soon. I believe that its going to really give moire insight to what really happened and hopefully lead to who did this crime.

 

[tomkat]

Yeah I took it to mean she was placed there too, but then she surfaced, since it was reported that sonar would probably be unsuccessful in finding the head due to all the roots and whatever else under water, thinking it was not intended that anyone find the head, so probably not the body either

BUt then we aren't really sure where the head is

That would depend how frequently someone went in this area and even if they had passed by in a boat since she was up in the tree line she may have not been noticed by others. It seems the reason these fishermen spotted her is they were going to fish in this particular area/spot of Lake Oconee.

I can only go by what Sheriff Sills says and he says her body was placed there. Placed there means that is where the murderer intended the victim to stay put. The only way that could possibly happen is to make her stationary by tying some kind of rope to her body and affixing it to the trees. Imo, he would not have said she was placed there if he saw she had just become tangled up in the trees. He is a pretty straight shooter when he says something. He means just what he says. Imo.

If she was not placed there then they wouldn't know if he may have put her in at another location and she drifted to that spot and got caught up in the trees. But he clearly says she was placed where she was found.

The fisherman who found her didn't mention putting lines out. They said they were fishing in the area and noticed what they thought at first was a buoy.

I do fish and most of the time that is where I fish and fisherman fish around the tree lines and water's edge quite frequently. The water tends to be shallower near the bank but can be cooler water since its shaded and often the fish will make their fish beds in these areas close to the bank.

They had this all figured out from the very beginning. They put her in this specific area because they knew all the searchers would be looking in Putnam County for her. It gave them ample opportunity to tie her body up in the tree line without being detected. They did want her to be found eventually or they wouldn't have brought her to that particular place where she stayed for 11 days until found. Imo he knew eventually someone would find her.

I think the profilers are looking at everything in its totality. Each thing they find new gives them more information on the killer. If he tied her to a tree even the knot he tied can reveal things about him depending on the type of knot he used.

I really don't think the police expect to find his head. They know there is a very good likelihood they will never find it.

 

[tomkat]

probaly most correct to say Mr. Dermond was decapitated, his body was headless or his head was severed. But as you say it really matters not as long as we all know what we are discussing the rest is semantics.

head decapitated, I heard that somewhere too

 

[jggordo]

with COLDwell bankers ? Still and again?? THATS interesting

I'm still thinking about that Real Estate agaent that drowned 2 days after RD was discovered ! She worked for coldwell bankers ! May be nothing but I can't quit thinking about her "accidental drowning" as it was ruled

It was initially listed 7-12-12 until 7-11-13. Then removed. And relisted 1-13-14 for 100K less than the original listing. But both times with the same real estate as before.

Wonder what showings she had done prior to her demise.

JMO's

 

[Rhyolite]

Working Theories

I am a bit confused by the many theories running concurrently on these threads. Could someone take the time and summarize the working theories that exist as well as supporting factual evidence? If something is just an assumption, just lay it out as such.

Maybe if one person cannot do them all, each who has a theory to present could lay it out top to bottom without the rest of us digging back through the threads. Thoughts?

It sure would be helpful in sorting this case out.

Extra bonus points for the first two theories.

Buehler? Anyone? Seriously someone must have a cognizant theory?

 

[Catmommy]

Old grudge/pending retribution = head taken to prove identity. Wifie = collateral damage.

 

[Plumeria5]

I hadn't read this before:

"Sills said the investigation has not focused on the Dermonds’ children as much as the couple. But, he added, “I’m not going to tell you we won’t” focus on them later."

http://www.msgr.com/lake_oconee_news/news/crime/article_e0e23f30-dd0a-11e3-adbe-001a4bcf887a.html

 

[Solitaryone]

There's a photo of VS, the real estate agent to the right of the news article here:

Sheriff says search continues for Dermond; no specific clues yet

http://www.msgr.com/lake_oconee_news/news/crime/article_e0e23f30-dd0a-11e3-adbe-001a4bcf887a.html

It's the second photo under Obituaries. Here's the link to VS obituary:

http://www.msgr.com/lake_oconee_news/obituaries/article_7e2b9b32-dd11-11e3-903e-001a4bcf887a.html

 

[gngr~snap]

There's a photo of VS, the real estate agent to the right of the news article here:

Sheriff says search continues for Dermond; no specific clues yet

http://www.msgr.com/lake_oconee_news/news/crime/article_e0e23f30-dd0a-11e3-adbe-001a4bcf887a.html

It's the second photo under Obituaries. Here's the link to VS obituary:

http://www.msgr.com/lake_oconee_news/obituaries/article_7e2b9b32-dd11-11e3-903e-001a4bcf887a.html

Maybe we should start a separate thread for her?
I know I am not alone in thinking it's all a little too ironic.
Not that anything will come of it. It's been ruled accidental drowning. Which I could believe but for the fact that her cell phone and purse were found on her dock and she drowned in 7 ft of water.
I know someone can drown in 2 inches of water, but people who live on the lake and own a dock typically can swim.
If she'd fallen and her phone was in the water with her I could believe accident.

She turned 50 exactly 1 month to the day before she died. She didn't renew her real estate license that expired in April.

I could believe she took her own life, but drowning doesn't make sense.
She was 50 and survived by her grandmother! Wow!
Is that the woman that live lived door to the Dermond's?

It is worth a look but I'm not sure it's linked.
Could be!
moo

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

 

[Bethanthony]

Machetes are also used a lot in the south. We use them to cut low growing brush back. We have three and we keep them very sharp incase we need to use them.

Also surveyors use them all the time when they are having to go through a lot of brush trying to get a site line.

I do think if the cut was clean it was probably done with a very sharp machete.

Yes, I'm in the south too. I had sod laid, and the only tool used, other than a forklift, was a machete. Very common indeed.

 

[Bethanthony]

Duh! Now I get it! My girlfriend is always hollering about the snakes getting near her chickens.
I didn't realize they eat the eggs!
I was like if they aren't poisonous why are you buggin?
I learned something new today.

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

My chickens must be hungry cause they EAT the snakes!!!! Lol. They've done it twice...

 

[Bethanthony]

LE was very forthcoming with the information that SD was dressed in everyday clothes.

It seems interesting that they specifically did NOT say what RD was wearing. And if he were wearing something, it would have led them to narrow the time line more. If he had been in 'everyday clothes', certainly they would have said that. That wouldn't have been info they held back that only the killer would know, because I'm not so sure it would be significant to the killer to remember RD was dressed in say, khakis and a white shirt. Not very memorable.

I wonder if RD had no clothes on. After all, wouldn't that certainly add to the shock value of the body with no head?

 

[Bootsctr]

Here is a detailed timeline up to May 9th from the Eatonton Messenger

http://www.msgr.com/news/local_news/article_d8154a8a-db9a-11e3-b822-0019bb2963f4.html

"Friday May 9: Sills says autopsy results show the cause of death is “craniocerebral trauma” – traumatic injury to the skull that encloses the brain and its nerves."

If they still don't have Mr. Dermond's head, how can they absolutely show the cause of death is craniocerebral trauma? :waitasec: :dunno:

 

[Bootsctr]

Respectfully snipped by me

Hi, I have been watching the discussion here and tryin to keep up. This is my first post..

Also, I thought I understood that Mr D was killed somewhere else other than the property... Does anyone have a link for that? If so, and he was later placed in the garage, why wouldnt the cadaver dogs pick something up? It seems there would have been a trail but they say they found nothing in the yard. Wouldnt you think that a newly beheaded body would leave quite a mess while moving it?

First and foremost: :welcome6:

I have no link that Mr. D was killed elsewhre and the moved into the garage. From Sheriff Sills first presser, he infered the body was moved only a few feet. My impression was Mr. D's body was right outside the garage and then moved only a few feet into the garage. The conclusion was that Mr. D was beheaded post-mortem because of the lack of blood splatter that would occur from beheading a person whose heart was still beating. Sheriff Sills did indicate that there was some blood. From this I infer that the perp killed Mr. D right outside the garage with a good whack on the back of the head - crowbar, slamming his head against pavers, etc. The perp then waited until Mr. D was most certainly dead - no pulse, etc. Mr. D was then moved into the garage where he could be beheaded with no chances of being seen and where tools would be readily accessible to complete the deed. I believe the perp knew he had time. If this was planned to the T, they might have known about the Kentucky Derby party and had all day Friday and Saturday. I don't think when the head was removed it was newly beheaded, but who knows. Perhaps the suspect brought a plastic bag or trash bag with which to carry the head. Where did the perp clean up at? Outside at a faucet? Rinsing off in the lake - highly doubt since that would risk being seen by a fisherman or a number of people.

All of this could have been performed while Mrs. Dermond was in the house working her crossword puzzle and none the wiser. It wasn't until Mrs. Dermond realized that Mr. D was late returning from his morning walk that she began to look for him. All the while the perp was watching and waiting for the appropriate time to kill her by blunt force trauma to the head.

Again, all just speculation and opinion and means absolutely nada, just my :twocents:

 

[Foxfire]

Lots of contradictory opinion in this article ..

Georgia decapitation murder profile: Psychiatrist says suspect is mentally ill

Douglas says that with a mentally ill suspect you typically see a disorganized crime scene, or a mixed crime scene, which has some disorganized activity in conjunction with some evidence of an organized influence to it. But the person who abducted Shirley Dermond, and killed and decapitated her husband, had such mental acumen at the time of their crime that they managed to enter undetected onto the gated community where the victims lived, as well as exit the property with Shirley Dermond in tow, and leave no discernible evidence behind that would tie them to the crime by police.

http://www.examiner.com/article/geo...ile-psychiatrist-says-suspect-is-mentally-ill

BBM: I wonder though, what if the person they are looking for lives in that very community, so therefore would have had no problem doing so.

Thanx for sharing Mrs G Norris.. This is a very good article, imo. John Douglas, is one of my fav profilers/authors and worked some very high profile cases including the Atlanta missing/murdered children. I was an Atlanta Firefighter during this period and it was a very volatile time for the city/community.

With all due respect to JD, times, they are a changin... With the advent of meth and molly, combined with the CSI affect on psychopathic predators, and the probability of multiple offenders. Imo, the Atl Piedmont Hospital Psychiatrist is likely very accurate....
Mrs G Norris, imo, the perps may consist of folks from inside and outside the gates....This would explain their ease entering and exiting the gate-less/gated community unnoticed..


Journey Into The Darkness - John Douglas Penetrates the Minds and Motives of some of the most notorious Serial Killers......
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/jou...6476?ean=9781439199817#product-commentaries-1

"You must enter the fire to extinguish the Flames of Evil"..
______________________________-

Dr Dave Davis MD D.L. F. A., F.A. B. F. P., F. A. B. P. N. Biographical Information
http://www.piedmontpsychiatricclinic.com/davis.html