GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 3

[Bootsctr]

Did I see someone post that the nearby home that's for sale (#143) IS occupied? I'm wondering if it's owner-occupied or ??

Also, the Bing map at the bottom of the zillow.com page for this address is helpful.

Yes, that house (#143) is occupied by the owner. I don't know if it is being sold by the owner or through a reality company. However, the neighbor was taken to the vigil by a friend of the Dermonds and I suppose her friend too. She was highly upset, as would be expected, but she was also hoping that LE presence would just go away. :scared:

Now the HOA regulations say you can't post For sale signs, etc. in your yard, so how do you advertise that your house is for sale? If you check out the Reynolds Plantation blog (which is a wealth of information) there was an ad for a house for sale by owner on that blog. Gave the # to call and address for any interested buyers. It was not #143, but another house. Interesting to say the least. It seemed RP had turned into a place to rent out houses for weekenders and as an investment - not a retirement community - which I suspect did not sit well with older members of the community who never counted on their community becoming filled with strangers and not people who planned on living out their golden years at RP. :moo:

 

[gngr~snap]

Yes, that house (#143) is occupied by the owner. I don't know if it is being sold by the owner or through a reality company. However, the neighbor was taken to the vigil by a friend of the Dermonds and I suppose her friend too. She was highly upset, as would be expected, but she was also hoping that LE presence would just go away. :scared:

Now the HOA regulations say you can't post For sale signs, etc. in your yard, so how do you advertise that your house is for sale? If you check out the Reynolds Plantation blog (which is a wealth of information) there was an ad for a house for sale by owner on that blog. Gave the # to call and address for any interested buyers. It was not #143, but another house. Interesting to say the least. It seemed RP had turned into a place to rent out houses for weekenders and as an investment - not a retirement community - which I suspect did not sit well with older members of the community who never counted on their community becoming filled with strangers and not people who planned on living out their golden years at RP. :moo:

A 1.5 -2 million + property isn't marketed the same way a $300,000 house is. Especially n a" gated" community. People aren't going to see that the house is for sale by driving through the neighborhood. It's not allowed.
I believe they are marketed the way million $ + high rise condos are. From realtor to realtor and appointments.

Jmo. My house is worth less than $180,000.
No one even pays attention to the few covenants we had when we moved in.
This neighborhood went to pot and looks like p.o. dunk now.

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[gngr~snap]

Thanx for sharing Mrs G Norris.. This is a very good article, imo. John Douglas, is one of my fav profilers/authors and worked some very high profile cases including the Atlanta missing/murdered children. I was an Atlanta Firefighter during this period and it was a very volatile time for the city/community.

With all due respect to JD, times, they are a changin... With the advent of meth and molly, combined with the CSI affect on psychopathic predators, and the probability of multiple offenders. Imo, the Atl Piedmont Hospital Psychiatrist is likely very accurate....
Mrs G Norris, imo, the perps may consist of folks from inside and outside the gates....This would explain their ease entering and exiting the gate-less/gated community unnoticed..


Journey Into The Darkness - John Douglas Penetrates the Minds and Motives of some of the most notorious Serial Killers......
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/jou...6476?ean=9781439199817#product-commentaries-1

"You must enter the fire to extinguish the Flames of Evil"..

I'll go with Douglas' view over
Davis's. Then again Davis has a son that is a convicted murderer so maybe he does know best.
moo

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[gngr~snap]

Link please gngr~snap.. TYIA

http://clatl.com/freshloaf/archives/2007/04/05/atlanta-murder-case-on-48-hours-saturday

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[osu]

First and foremost: :welcome6:

I have no link that Mr. D was killed elsewhre and the moved into the garage. From Sheriff Sills first presser, he infered the body was moved only a few feet. My impression was Mr. D's body was right outside the garage and then moved only a few feet into the garage.

Respectively snipped by me.

Here's the article where it states that Sills believes Mr Dermond was murdered somewhere other than in his garage.

~snipped

Russell Dermond, 88, almost certainly was murdered somewhere other than the garage, Sills said Monday – which he had suggested earlier.
The amount and pattern of blood in the garage suggested the corpse was brought to the house, Sills said.
After receiving results of an autopsy, he said the official cause of Dermond’s death is “cranial cerebral trauma” – which means the victim’s head was not found with the body.

More of article at link: http://www.msgr.com/news/local_news/article_58fc8010-db9a-11e3-990e-0019bb2963f4.html


ETA: After re-reading the article, it seems that the part of the article where Sills said he believes (Mr Dermond was murdered somewhere else and then brought to the garage) has been redacted.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I don't think they were beaten as in fists. Sills said he saw no trauma on Shirley's body. He wouldn't be able to see the skull fractures. The ME would see that when he shaved her head to do the autopsy or when he took head xrays.

They definitely look like they were both bludgeoned to death with something that is consistent with a crowbar. Bludgeoning murders are most often done by someone who had familiarity with the victims. Imo, it shows personal rage and pent up hatred toward the victim.

In every case that I have kept up with a lot of times its the autopsy the police is waiting for so the ME can tell them what kind of weapon he/she thinks was used to make the wounds. From their information they know what type of weapon to be looking for. That is why a detective is on scene at the time of autopsy. So the ME can give them any guidance about the evidence the body revealed to him/her.

I don't believe the weapon belonged to the victims but I know LE has to check it out in case one is missing. I think it belongs to the killer himself.

IMO[/QUODear Ocean- I learned about the crowbar in your
#47 post. I asked for verification but maybe I missed it. From
that post, it sounds as though you have insider lnowledge.
Or maybe I misread your post.

It is in this news video. Its already been linked before by others but I will link it again.

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/source-investigators-find-body-putnam-county/nfyK5/

 

[gngr~snap]

I'll go with Douglas' view over
Davis's. Then again Davis has a son that is a murderer so maybe he does know best.
moo

The son stalked the couple, killed David, burned his house down and remained free for almost 10 years.
Dominick Dunne's (Burning obsession): http://youtu.be/CDJ4gbMZMz8
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[Foxfire]

I believe the killer knew the Dermond's very well. Well enough to know he could lure them out of their house. The beheading was probably part of the plan to make it look like something it wasn't. And whoever did this probably had a lot of rage toward Mr. Dermond especially. I have a feeling there will be an arrest very soon.

You think, like, a long-standing rage? Who in the world? (Not saying there is not such a person, just that we here have had no real clue of who it might be. If there is, I hope LE is figuring it out.)

The beheading being staging, more or less, yes, I could buy that theory.

I've been feeling an arrest is coming, too -- but was thinking maybe it is just wishful thinking.

Solitaryone/Backwoods, sure hope you are both correct. If this case is not solved soon, and an arrest, indictment, and conviction secured. Imo, there will be a severe backlash by the Putnam county community due to the selfish decision by Sheriff Howard Sills to lock out the investigative resources of the GBI; Georgia Bureau of Investigations/Special Agents. JMO

Services the GBI Provides to Assist Local Law Enforcement Agencies in (High Profile)Investigations

http://gbi.georgia.gov/node/250

<Locations>

GBI Augusta, GA - GBI Perry, GA - GBI Athens, GA
https://www.google.com/maps/place/G...A!3m1!1s0x88f3dca7c8485a53:0x920c0f5a66c6b2b9

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Yeah I took it to mean she was placed there too, but then she surfaced, since it was reported that sonar would probably be unsuccessful in finding the head due to all the roots and whatever else under water, thinking it was not intended that anyone find the head, so probably not the body either

BUt then we aren't really sure where the head is

I went back and listened to the PC again and you are right she was first submerged. Sorry for getting it incorrect.

He still thinks she was brought there and most likely was put in the deeper water (50 ft) but she would rise at some point and begin to float and the currents or waves from passing boats probably pushed her body into the tree lines.

I have read about bodies that were submerged and even weighted down that broke loose of the weights and surfaced due to the decomp gas buildup.

 

[gngr~snap]

Solitaryone/Backwoods, sure hope you are both correct. If this case is not solved soon, and an arrest, indictment, and conviction secured. Imo, there will be a severe backlash by the Putnam county community due to the selfish decision by Sheriff Howard Sills to lock out the investigative resources of the GBI; Georgia Bureau of Investigations/Special Agents. JMO

Services the GBI Provides to Assist Local Law Enforcement Agencies in (High Profile)Investigations

http://gbi.georgia.gov/node/250

<Locations>

GBI Augusta, GA - GBI Perry, GA - GBI Athens, GA
https://www.google.com/maps/place/G...A!3m1!1s0x88f3dca7c8485a53:0x920c0f5a66c6b2b9

If the perp/s live in the area and know that 200 people were questioned yesterday I think they might be a little jumpy today.
Then again that would require some degree of humanity...
moo

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[oceanblueeyes]

Lots of contradictory opinion in this article ..

Georgia decapitation murder profile: Psychiatrist says suspect is mentally ill

Douglas says that with a mentally ill suspect you typically see a disorganized crime scene, or a mixed crime scene, which has some disorganized activity in conjunction with some evidence of an organized influence to it. But the person who abducted Shirley Dermond, and killed and decapitated her husband, had such mental acumen at the time of their crime that they managed to enter undetected onto the gated community where the victims lived, as well as exit the property with Shirley Dermond in tow, and leave no discernible evidence behind that would tie them to the crime by police.

http://www.examiner.com/article/geo...ile-psychiatrist-says-suspect-is-mentally-ill

BBM: I wonder though, what if the person they are looking for lives in that very community, so therefore would have had no problem doing so.

Now I know I need more caffeine this morning.

At first glance I though it was Douglas who was saying the suspect is mentally ill. I was thinking "what? really?":floorlaugh:

But then I read the entire article.

I do not agree with the Atlanta psychiatrist on this one and definitely agree with Mr. Douglas.

This is just not the work of a mentally deranged killer. It is way too neat and organized where it takes too much clear cognitive thinking to accomplish it all.

In fact imo it shows this person is extremely intelligent and may even suffer from OCD and if ever caught their home will also be very neat and orderly. They certainly know right from wrong and are trying their best not to get caught.

He is not mentally ill. He is smart and crafty and has been able to keep the police at bay for over two weeks now and they really know nothing about him in all this time.

I do agree with you....... this killer lives right in the middle of where all of this is happening.

IMO

 

[Foxfire]

If the perp/s live in the area and know that 200 people were questioned yesterday I think they might be a little jumpy today.
Then again that would require some degree of humanity...
moo

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True gngr~snap, or require their presence... This investigation is reminiscent of the Jessica Ridgeway(CO), combined with the Green River; SK Gary Ridgeway(WA) investigations, imo;
<Both suspects/killers were identified by dna>
<Austin Sigg IDed in weeks and SK Gary Ridgeway IDed over two decades & many innocent victims later(40)>

Austin Sigg, made the mistake of being at home when the investigators canvassed the neighborhood allowing them to do a dna swab.

While SK Gary Ridgeway was at home with a captive victim when LE visited. GR, convinced investigators that they had the wrong guy, and later took two polygraphs, passing them with ease...
GR said that he had two selves; good Gary & evil Gary..

Evil Gary, likely showed up for the two polygraphs, imo...

 

[gngr~snap]

Now I know I need more caffeine this morning.

At first glance I though it was Douglas who was saying the suspect is mentally ill. I was thinking "what? really?":floorlaugh:

But then I read the entire article.

I do not agree with the Atlanta psychiatrist on this one and definitely agree with Mr. Douglas.

This is just not the work of a mentally deranged killer. It is way too neat and organized where it takes too much clear cognitive thinking to accomplish it all.

In fact imo it shows this person is extremely intelligent and may even suffer from OCD and if ever caught their home will also be very neat and orderly. They certainly know right from wrong and are trying their best not to get caught.

He is not mentally ill. He is smart and crafty and has been able to keep the police at bay for over two weeks now and they really know nothing about him in all this time.

I do agree with you....... this killer lives right in the middle of where all of this is happening.

IMO

OCD! I have been thinking that but, I was afraid to say ocd and decapitated about the same person.
They don't really go together but, in this case maybe they do.
Moo

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[Foxfire]

Now I know I need more caffeine this morning.

At first glance I though it was Douglas who was saying the suspect is mentally ill. I was thinking "what? really?":floorlaugh:

But then I read the entire article.

I do not agree with the Atlanta psychiatrist on this one and definitely agree with Mr. Douglas.

This is just not the work of a mentally deranged killer. It is way too neat and organized where it takes too much clear cognitive thinking to accomplish it all.

In fact imo it shows this person is extremely intelligent and may even suffer from OCD and if ever caught their home will also be very neat and orderly. They certainly know right from wrong and are trying their best not to get caught.

He is not mentally ill. He is smart and crafty and has been able to keep the police at bay for over two weeks now and they really know nothing about him in all this time.

I do agree with you....... this killer lives right in the middle of where all of this is happening.

IMO

Ocean, this is one reason that I feel so strongly that there is a meth/molly connection with multiple offenders.. As in the Holly Bobo abduction/murder(TN-2011), which was a very well planned out and executed abduction. The behavioral profiles of the unknown suspects would have likely been synonymous in both cases, imo. Conflicting behavioral profiles due to possible multiple perps involved.

_____________________

Journey into the Darkness Prologue: &#8216;In the Mind of a Killer&#8217; - John Douglas

This isn&#8217;t the Hollywood version. It isn&#8217;t sanitized or prettied up or rendered into art. This is the way it really happens. If anything, it&#8217;s worse than the way I describe it&#8230;

AS I HAD SO MANY TIMES BEFORE, I PUT MYSELF IN THE MIND OF THE KILLER..

 

[gngr~snap]

Ocean, this is one reason that I feel so strongly that there is a meth/molly connection.. As in the Holly Bobo abduction/murder(TN-2011), which was a very well planned out and executed abduction. The behavioral profiles of the unknown suspects would have likely been synonymous in both cases, imo.

Do you think they got paranoid did some more meth, started tweaking and came back to clean up? Or they left someone behind to clean while they took SD to the lake.
Not really familiar with Molly. Is that like MDMA, xanax or a combination of both?

Honestly I don't even think people who buy Molly really know what's in it.
A girl in my neighborhood got permanent heart damage from it. I think in her valves. She was really sweet met the wrong older boy and pfftt.
Sad.
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[shefner]

True gngr~snap, or require their presence... This investigation is reminiscent of the Jessica Ridgeway(CO), combined with the Green River; SK Gary Ridgeway(WA) investigations, imo;
<Both suspects/killers were identified by dna>
<Austin Sigg IDed in weeks and SK Gary Ridgeway IDed over two decades & many innocent victims later(40)

Austin Sigg, made the mistake of being at home when the investigators canvassed the neighborhood allowing them to do a dna swab.

While SK Gary Ridgeway was at home with a captive victim when LE visited. GR, convinced investigators that they had the wrong guy, and later took two polygraphs, passing them with ease...
GR said that he had two selves; good Gary & evil Gary..

Evil Gary, likely showed up for the two polygraphs, imo...

LE was so smart in the Ridgeway case....very forward thinking in the investigative world. They used the public. As soon as they shared the photo of the cross pendant, Sigg's mother called LE. LE gave so much information to the public and the public responded.
I'm surprised more departments aren't watching and learning from the skills in that case.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

OCD! I have been thinking that but, I was afraid to say ocd and decapitated about the same person.
They don't really go together but, in this case maybe they do.
Moo

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I don't know if I suffer from OCD myself.....all I know I am a neat freak and must have everything neat and organized.

But in a weird way I do think it does go together especially if they found a way to decapitate Russ's head the cleanest most efficient way possible and if the rumor is correct that it was a very clean cut.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Ocean, this is one reason that I feel so strongly that there is a meth/molly connection.. As in the Holly Bobo abduction/murder(TN-2011), which was a very well planned out and executed abduction. The behavioral profiles of the unknown suspects would have likely been synonymous in both cases, imo.

_____________________

Journey into the Darkness Prologue: &#8216;In the Mind of a Killer&#8217; - John Douglas

This isn&#8217;t the Hollywood version. It isn&#8217;t sanitized or prettied up or rendered into art. This is the way it really happens. If anything, it&#8217;s worse than the way I describe it&#8230;

AS I HAD SO MANY TIMES BEFORE, I PUT MYSELF IN THE MIND OF THE KILLER..

You know I admire and respect you highly and all you have consistently done for missing victims but on this I just have a different take.

But the act of the abduction/kidnapping itself by the perps rarely leaves evidence behind no matter who is doing the kidnapping. So many cases are where the victim is gone without a trace of evidence left behind.

While the abduction of Holly left no evidence behind I would guess that the actual crime scene was a house of horrors. May be why they arrested them all once they searched Adams and Autry's properties. At the actual murder site I would think the murder itself was very disorganized.

With this killer I think everywhere he went or took them he made sure no evidence was left behind tying him to the crimes. I even think he may have made sure he murdered them where he knew evidence of the murders wouldn't be found.

It seems that kidnapping a victim is rather easy unfortunately but where the actual murder occurs tends to be sloppy when its meth heads or drug addicts and they will leave a lot of evidence behind.

JMO though and nothing more than that.

I still wub you though and do understand what you are saying. I just don't feel it in this case but I sure have agreed with you on many cases and thought you had them pegged right.

This one just feels different to me for some reason.

Imo, we are looking at someone who is educated, intelligent, and fits in well within the community.

 

[mck16]

A 1.5 -2 million + property isn't marketed the same way a $300,000 house is. Especially n a" gated" community. People aren't going to see that the house is for sale by driving through the neighborhood. It's not allowed.
I believe they are marketed the way million $ + high rise condos are. From realtor to realtor and appointments.

Jmo. My house is worth less than $180,000.
No one even pays attention to the few covenants we had when we moved in.
This neighborhood went to pot and looks like p.o. dunk now.

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I agree with what you posted re how to market the house. I own a condo and lived there for 17 years. We have the same rules that I have seen listed for Great Waters. I do not think they are excessive. Homes are advertised by the realtor on their website, or thru MLS. Maybe once every 3 months the gates are opened for Open Houses, etc. Also where I own the history has been that one realtor pretty much has sold all the properties.

We have a community garage sale every 6 months. Dogs are kept on leashes and you pick up after them. But, this is a law in the city. They also have to be vaccinated and licensed. jmo

 

[Foxfire]

LE was so smart in the Ridgeway case....very forward thinking in the investigative world. They used the public. As soon as they shared the photo of the cross pendant, Sigg's mother called LE. LE gave so much information to the public and the public responded.
I'm surprised more departments aren't watching and learning from the skills in that case.

shefner, maybe they did learn from the Jessica Ridgeway abduction/murder case.. We aren't privy to info of whether they have dna in this case, or if LE took dna swabs while canvassing yesterday. I do remember discussing the investigative strategy of the Jessica Ridgeway case in an earlier SD thread.
Guess, the suspect/s wouldn't know whether investigators actually have dna or not, huh?