GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 3

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This case is so odd. Makes me :crazy: The decapitation of Mr. D is the bug-a-boo for me. I have been whirling ideas around for days and can't really settle on any one in particular but have whittled it down a bit, I think.
At least for today
:D

The beheading tends to make one think of an old-fashioned mob hit. To me that does not fit. One reason is that Mrs. D would have not been harmed. Women and children were always excluded from any type of retribution. It was a man’s world and it stayed within the men, but is no longer the 1980’s. Current mob styles are no longer the same. Mexican and Columbian drug cartels operate much differently. Violence in not kept to just the active players, but is used as “big thumb” to keep every ones mouth shut; intimidation tactics of entire neighborhoods is common.

The use of blunt force trauma seems a bit out of character here as well, especially for any professional murder ordered by organized cartel/crime. A gunshot to the head would be swifter and with more assured results and if this was some type of retribution for past behavior, both bodies would have been left in plain sight.

Of course you could be looking at this was done as a warning to someone else, by someone new at the whole intimidation by violence, and not necessarily connected to the Dermond family at all.

So then I go to why was this even done. What was the purpose?

Theory A -- Mrs. D was removed from the property along with Mr. D’s head; originally meant to be a killing/abduction with a ransom demand for the safe return of Mrs. D. Possibly, for some reason they were not able to subdue Mrs. D. and she ended up getting killed. The ransom idea was totally dropped. If that was the case, then any planning that was done to access the property, kill Mr. D and take his head as the message” pay up or same happens to her” and remove Mrs. D actually may have went well up to the point of being able to go forward with a ransom demand. Now the ‘plan’ needed to change in mid stream, hence her body being dumped in the lake, (and probably the head) making the two parts of the crime appear to be conflicting as if they were from different thought processes, especially why there was no theft from the house.
A ransom demand plan could very well mean that someone has insider knowledge (or thought they did) of finances and is under the impression that it would be easy money and readily forthcoming. It would not necessarily need to be anybody real close to the elder Dermond’s.

If this was the case, then the timing or active parts of the crime; finding and accessing the property, not being seen, being able to leave un-noticed, not leaving a huge messy crime scene were well organized, but the entire thought process was flawed because Mrs. D’s abilities were not taken into account and the entire plan ended up failing.

If it wasn't ransom then I go on to

Theory B – Someone who was known to the Dermond’s was expecting (whether real or imagined) something from them; money, property, backing of a loan, endorsement of some type, assistance of some form or another, even possibly personal recognition or an apology of some type that they did not receive. Rage, all pent up was the driving factor and simply hitting them over the head did not satisfy that rage, hence the decapitation of Mr. D.

Since the home was not ransacked, nor does it appear that anything was taken, then it may have been more to do with a personal conflict that did not have any direct connections to a $ value. The question is was this pre-planned? If it was not, then in my opinion they were very lucky to have been able to execute something that has left very little in the way of evidence that identifies them. (as far as we have been told)

Although I can see both A and B working, I have to wonder why now. What made whomever they are do this now. So then that made think about what else may be going on in the area which brings me to

Theory C—This was pre-planned and had nothing to do with the Dermond’s on any type of personal level. They and their home, with the dock placement location and being on a cul-de-sac just played well for an unseen crime. The ‘beheading’ and an ‘possible abduction’ were done on purpose to insure it would draw major media attention and have everyone in the area focused on nothing else.
Basically cause and effect:
To deflect attention away from someone else or something else.
To gain a reaction or a chain of actions that will eventually benefit another person or group.
To simply do something to show everybody how smart they are in a sick twisted way.

This is just all pretty much basic though process, and not in any order of which I think is the most likely, it just how I arrived at what I did. You have to start somewhere and see if what you do know fits in what could be. Of course since I have no idea what LE actually knows it is difficult to get beyond just basic theory.
:twocents:
 
A walk back in time to 1981 when America was abruptly and suddenly awakened to the Silent Epidemic of missing/murdered persons in the USA... There is over 100,000 missing/murdered cold cases in the US today..

'To be edited>..to show the parallels in the Adam Walsh investigation and the Dermond abduction/murder/decapitation, as well as the type of creature likely responsible for this horrific crime, imo'..


Bringing Adam Home - The Tragic Story That Changed America
http://www.cleveland.com/books/index.ssf/2011/02/bringing_adam_home_offers_stro.html


Adam Walsh Movie -
Adam (1983) Find my child. - YouTube

Thank you foxfire, I live in Fl and remember this case like it was yesterday. Another sad case and there are many out there in this world. So scary

You're Welcome, loveboxerkisses... Thanx to John & Rev Walsh, we all remember...and thanx to the Walsh's determination and Miami Beach Homicide Detective SGT Joe Matthews, Adam's murder/rape/decapitation was eventually solved..

A few years ago I had the honor of meeting (AMW), MBPD Homicide Detective Joe Matthews, at a CUE national missing person's conference in NC. He shared the following story with me and other attendees;

* Detective Matthews was invited in by the HPD Chief to assist the Hollywood PD detectives in the Adam Walsh investigation. The HPD Detectives resented the outside intrusion(egos).. He was held at arms length and wasn't allowed full access to the evidence and other info, and was eventually fired..

After over 27 years cold, John Walsh used his influence to persuade the HPD to release the investigative file to Detective Joe Matthews for review. While at the FDLE(FL's GBI), evidence room, Det Matthews, found some undeveloped rolls of camera film. Seems, the film was forgotten photos of the results of luminal tests conducted on Ottis Toole's car early in the investigation. When arrested OT admitted to abducting, raping, and decapitating Adam Walsh, then throwing his head into the rear floorboard, and later disposing of it in a canal. OT, later recanted his confession.. OT's car was sold at auction by HPD, and then promptly sold for scrap metal by the new owner.

In a walnut shell; long after prison inmate Otis Toole's death from natural causes, when the 27 year old film of the luminal tests was finally developed. A shroud of Adam's face appeared on the floorboard of Ottis Toole's car... When the photo was shown to Rev Walsh, she said, "that's my beautiful son; Adam"! The Adam Walsh investigation was now, no longer Cold....

Bringing Adam Home> "Never, Ever, Give Up Seeking Justice"!
Adam Walsh Case Solved!!! - YouTube
 
I don't think its a mistake.

Huh... There is a listing in the White pages as well. Oh my...
I got goose bumps. Guess we will see when and if a suspect is ever arrested.

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk
 
preview for the HLN at 3

said authorities are no closer to finding the perp, but pondering WHY this happenedl

will seeee!

the speculation is making me nuts !
 
Maybe we should start a separate thread for her?
I know I am not alone in thinking it's all a little too ironic.
Not that anything will come of it. It's been ruled accidental drowning. Which I could believe but for the fact that her cell phone and purse were found on her dock and she drowned in 7 ft of water.
I know someone can drown in 2 inches of water, but people who live on the lake and own a dock typically can swim.
If she'd fallen and her phone was in the water with her I could believe accident.

She turned 50 exactly 1 month to the day before she died. She didn't renew her real estate license that expired in April.

I could believe she took her own life, but drowning doesn't make sense.
She was 50 and survived by her grandmother! Wow!
Is that the woman that live lived door to the Dermond's?

It is worth a look but I'm not sure it's linked.
Could be!
moo

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

Is there a thread for her?
It's really disturbing how many people "accidentally drown " that are fully dressed and healthy individuals. I am always suspicious of these types of deaths.
 
This case is so odd. Makes me :crazy: The decapitation of Mr. D is the bug-a-boo for me. I have been whirling ideas around for days and can't really settle on any one in particular but have whittled it down a bit, I think.
At least for today
:D

The beheading tends to make one think of an old-fashioned mob hit. To me that does not fit. One reason is that Mrs. D would have not been harmed. Women and children were always excluded from any type of retribution. It was a man’s world and it stayed within the men, but is no longer the 1980’s. Current mob styles are no longer the same. Mexican and Columbian drug cartels operate much differently. Violence in not kept to just the active players, but is used as “big thumb” to keep every ones mouth shut; intimidation tactics of entire neighborhoods is common.

The use of blunt force trauma seems a bit out of character here as well, especially for any professional murder ordered by organized cartel/crime. A gunshot to the head would be swifter and with more assured results and if this was some type of retribution for past behavior, both bodies would have been left in plain sight.

Of course you could be looking at this was done as a warning to someone else, by someone new at the whole intimidation by violence, and not necessarily connected to the Dermond family at all.

So then I go to why was this even done. What was the purpose?

Theory A -- Mrs. D was removed from the property along with Mr. D’s head; originally meant to be a killing/abduction with a ransom demand for the safe return of Mrs. D. Possibly, for some reason they were not able to subdue Mrs. D. and she ended up getting killed. The ransom idea was totally dropped. If that was the case, then any planning that was done to access the property, kill Mr. D and take his head as the message” pay up or same happens to her” and remove Mrs. D actually may have went well up to the point of being able to go forward with a ransom demand. Now the ‘plan’ needed to change in mid stream, hence her body being dumped in the lake, (and probably the head) making the two parts of the crime appear to be conflicting as if they were from different thought processes, especially why there was no theft from the house.
A ransom demand plan could very well mean that someone has insider knowledge (or thought they did) of finances and is under the impression that it would be easy money and readily forthcoming. It would not necessarily need to be anybody real close to the elder Dermond’s.

If this was the case, then the timing or active parts of the crime; finding and accessing the property, not being seen, being able to leave un-noticed, not leaving a huge messy crime scene were well organized, but the entire thought process was flawed because Mrs. D’s abilities were not taken into account and the entire plan ended up failing.

If it wasn't ransom then I go on to

Theory B – Someone who was known to the Dermond’s was expecting (whether real or imagined) something from them; money, property, backing of a loan, endorsement of some type, assistance of some form or another, even possibly personal recognition or an apology of some type that they did not receive. Rage, all pent up was the driving factor and simply hitting them over the head did not satisfy that rage, hence the decapitation of Mr. D.

Since the home was not ransacked, nor does it appear that anything was taken, then it may have been more to do with a personal conflict that did not have any direct connections to a $ value. The question is was this pre-planned? If it was not, then in my opinion they were very lucky to have been able to execute something that has left very little in the way of evidence that identifies them. (as far as we have been told)

Although I can see both A and B working, I have to wonder why now. What made whomever they are do this now. So then that made think about what else may be going on in the area which brings me to

Theory C—This was pre-planned and had nothing to do with the Dermond’s on any type of personal level. They and their home, with the dock placement location and being on a cul-de-sac just played well for an unseen crime. The ‘beheading’ and an ‘possible abduction’ were done on purpose to insure it would draw major media attention and have everyone in the area focused on nothing else.
Basically cause and effect:
To deflect attention away from someone else or something else.
To gain a reaction or a chain of actions that will eventually benefit another person or group.
To simply do something to show everybody how smart they are in a sick twisted way.

This is just all pretty much basic though process, and not in any order of which I think is the most likely, it just how I arrived at what I did. You have to start somewhere and see if what you do know fits in what could be. Of course since I have no idea what LE actually knows it is difficult to get beyond just basic theory. :twocents:

Yeah that would help! MY brain hurts LOL

I personally still dont think it was random tho
 
Is there a thread for her?
It's really disturbing how many people "accidentally drown " that are fully dressed and healthy individuals. I am always suspicious of these types of deaths.

Not that I know of.

Very coincidental. A death at her residence by the dock and drowning in broad daylight fully clothed. Purse and cell on dock.
Was she the listing agent for the house next door?

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk
 
Not that I know of.

Very coincidental. A death at her residence by the dock and drowning in broad daylight fully clothed. Purse and cell on dock.
Was she the listing agent for the house next door?

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

Caldwell Banker has a man listed as the listing agent.
 
Ok! I am officially creeped out!
I did a reverse address search just see the age of the neighbors that used to live there at 143. The home is HUGE 6000 + 900 extra sq feet.
Was this home used as a vacation/ rental home?
I heard no one lives there.

Major coincidence with that home IMO.
AND I DO MEAN COINCIDENCE.
The man who is listed at the address ***his first name is the same as Shirley and Russell's last name. DERMOND.
Small world?
OR IS IT POSSIBLE THIS WAS INDEED A CASE OF MISTAKEN IDENTITY AND THE WRONG HOUSE /PEOPLE WERE TARGETED?
all caps for emphasis I don't mean to yell.

moo
Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk


Mistaken identity has been in my thoughts since the beginning. Wrong people were targeted and killed.
 
She's quite attractive. Such a shame!

Ok I'm not getting the connection to this story. Are you saying she was a real estate agent to a house for sale next door to the victims here?
 
HLN Guest, Applied Forensics...Joseph Scott Morgan

^^Has had to separate head from torso during forensic examinations:

Decapitation is not an easy task

Decap takes skill, killer must come prepared

Decap is very rare and involves a lot of rage
 
I was hoping HLN had some new news. Guess not.
 
So on HLN

the former mortician is saying:

beheading is not an easy task, very rare, perps came prepared and it was anger
 
HLN: hard time believing it's random, beheading takes purpose, action, prepared, sending message or angry and can discount ANYTHING else
 
HLN Guest, Joseph S Morgan:

Decap takes purpose & action

Either very very angry or sending a message
 
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