GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 3

[tomkat]

Is there a thread for her?
It's really disturbing how many people "accidentally drown " that are fully dressed and healthy individuals. I am always suspicious of these types of deaths.

on the same lake, 2 days after the discovery of RDermond Body, working with the same RE agency that had Dermonds next door neighbor house listed

weeeirrd

 

[Cardinal47]

This case is so odd. Makes me :crazy: The decapitation of Mr. D is the bug-a-boo for me. I have been whirling ideas around for days and can't really settle on any one in particular but have whittled it down a bit, I think.
At least for today


The beheading tends to make one think of an old-fashioned mob hit. To me that does not fit. One reason is that Mrs. D would have not been harmed. Women and children were always excluded from any type of retribution. It was a man’s world and it stayed within the men, but is no longer the 1980’s. Current mob styles are no longer the same. Mexican and Columbian drug cartels operate much differently. Violence in not kept to just the active players, but is used as “big thumb” to keep every ones mouth shut; intimidation tactics of entire neighborhoods is common.

The use of blunt force trauma seems a bit out of character here as well, especially for any professional murder ordered by organized cartel/crime. A gunshot to the head would be swifter and with more assured results and if this was some type of retribution for past behavior, both bodies would have been left in plain sight.

Of course you could be looking at this was done as a warning to someone else, by someone new at the whole intimidation by violence, and not necessarily connected to the Dermond family at all.

So then I go to why was this even done. What was the purpose?

Theory A -- Mrs. D was removed from the property along with Mr. D’s head; originally meant to be a killing/abduction with a ransom demand for the safe return of Mrs. D. Possibly, for some reason they were not able to subdue Mrs. D. and she ended up getting killed. The ransom idea was totally dropped. If that was the case, then any planning that was done to access the property, kill Mr. D and take his head as the message” pay up or same happens to her” and remove Mrs. D actually may have went well up to the point of being able to go forward with a ransom demand. Now the ‘plan’ needed to change in mid stream, hence her body being dumped in the lake, (and probably the head) making the two parts of the crime appear to be conflicting as if they were from different thought processes, especially why there was no theft from the house.
A ransom demand plan could very well mean that someone has insider knowledge (or thought they did) of finances and is under the impression that it would be easy money and readily forthcoming. It would not necessarily need to be anybody real close to the elder Dermond’s.

If this was the case, then the timing or active parts of the crime; finding and accessing the property, not being seen, being able to leave un-noticed, not leaving a huge messy crime scene were well organized, but the entire thought process was flawed because Mrs. D’s abilities were not taken into account and the entire plan ended up failing.

If it wasn't ransom then I go on to

Theory B – Someone who was known to the Dermond’s was expecting (whether real or imagined) something from them; money, property, backing of a loan, endorsement of some type, assistance of some form or another, even possibly personal recognition or an apology of some type that they did not receive. Rage, all pent up was the driving factor and simply hitting them over the head did not satisfy that rage, hence the decapitation of Mr. D.

Since the home was not ransacked, nor does it appear that anything was taken, then it may have been more to do with a personal conflict that did not have any direct connections to a $ value. The question is was this pre-planned? If it was not, then in my opinion they were very lucky to have been able to execute something that has left very little in the way of evidence that identifies them. (as far as we have been told)

Although I can see both A and B working, I have to wonder why now. What made whomever they are do this now. So then that made think about what else may be going on in the area which brings me to

Theory C—This was pre-planned and had nothing to do with the Dermond’s on any type of personal level. They and their home, with the dock placement location and being on a cul-de-sac just played well for an unseen crime. The ‘beheading’ and an ‘possible abduction’ were done on purpose to insure it would draw major media attention and have everyone in the area focused on nothing else.
Basically cause and effect:
To deflect attention away from someone else or something else.
To gain a reaction or a chain of actions that will eventually benefit another person or group.
To simply do something to show everybody how smart they are in a sick twisted way.

This is just all pretty much basic though process, and not in any order of which I think is the most likely, it just how I arrived at what I did. You have to start somewhere and see if what you do know fits in what could be. Of course since I have no idea what LE actually knows it is difficult to get beyond just basic theory.
:twocents:

Don 't over think it! Remember Occams Razor!

This could be as simple as a pissed off psycho type paperboy!

 

[Nuvolari]

I thought maybe, just maybe, the talking head would have asked the pastor if he noticed the D's were not at church on the 4th and if he did, was it unusual for them to miss the services? Did anyone notice? Anyone that attended the Kentucky Derby Party?

Otherwise, here's a link to a very specific description of where the corpse was found in the lake:

http://www.macon.com/2014/05/17/3103064/motive-in-lake-oconee-killings.html

This seems a credible source. Why would someone describe the location as "near the dam"? Can this information be refuted?

LE described the corpse location as near the main channel of the Oconee river. If the main channel is essentially the same as the county line, how far might the corpse have drifted in say, twelve days? Distance from main channel at house to discovery point is about 5.6 miles. At a drift rate of 1.7 feet per minute, you'd think it's very possible.

 

[epiphany]

Don 't over think it! Remember Occams Razor!

This could be as simple as a pissed off psycho type paperboy!

Except for the Decapitation...

 

[jggordo]

Not that I know of.

Very coincidental. A death at her residence by the dock and drowning in broad daylight fully clothed. Purse and cell on dock.
Was she the listing agent for the house next door?

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

The listing agent is the agent that listed the contract to sell the property but not necessarily the agent(s) that show the property. There usually is a lock box that other agents can show the property. In the event that another agent actually sells the property the fee is split between the listing agent and selling agent in most cases.

Also in looking at the property records the reason for change in 2012 says DA. does that mean divorce agreement? Was there a divorce from that property? Also the name as "trustee". Trustee for who?

JMO's

http://qpublic7.qpublic.net/qpmap4/m...s+parcel_sales

 

[tomkat]

okay if we dont' overthink it then we're right back to the drug cartel or mob

it's the first thing that comes to everyones mind and it's been stated by professionals that

It's a more sosphisticated person to enter the home and kill than pick up off the streets

and beheading is basically premeditate if the perp has to come prepared as the experts say

 

[Dr.Watson]

(snipped for space)

Otherwise, here's a link to a very specific description of where the corpse was found in the lake:

http://www.macon.com/2014/05/17/3103064/motive-in-lake-oconee-killings.html

This seems a credible source. Why would someone describe the location as "near the dam"? Can this information be refuted?

LE described the corpse location as near the main channel of the Oconee river. If the main channel is essentially the same as the county line, how far might the corpse have drifted in say, twelve days? Distance from main channel at house to discovery point is about 5.6 miles. At a drift rate of 1.7 feet per minute, you'd think it's very possible.

I have to respectfully disagree...There's too many twists and turns in Lake Oconee from their house to where her body was found, also it's a man-made lake FULL of areas with stumps, roots, old dead trees, etc. That's why Sills said her body was "placed there" - it would be a miracle for her to drift along the bottom of the lake from their house to where she was found. Remember that the deceased will sink and remain at the bottom of the lake until decomposition produces enough gases to cause it to float to the surface.

 

[tomkat]

The listing agent is the agent that listed the contract to sell the property but not necessarily the agent(s) that show the property. There usually is a lock box that other agents can show the property. In the event that another agent actually sells the property the fee is split between the listing agent and selling agent in most cases.

Also in looking at the property records the reason for change in 2012 says DA. does that mean divorce agreement? Was there a divorce from that property? Also the name as "trustee". Trustee for who?

JMO's

the LISTING agent/company markets the home initially

any one at any RE co in their area can show it or sell it

Interesting that this VS worked for the same COLDWELL bankers Co that had it listed

 

[Carolinapeach]

The listing agent is the agent that listed the contract to sell the property but not necessarily the agent(s) that show the property. There usually is a lock box that other agents can show the property. In the event that another agent actually sells the property the fee is split between the listing agent and selling agent in most cases.

Also in looking at the property records the reason for change in 2012 says DA. does that mean divorce agreement? Was there a divorce from that property? Also the name as "trustee". Trustee for who?

JMO's

Deed of Assent

 

[Cardinal47]

Except for the Decapitation...

Austin Sigg.

 

[epiphany]

Austin Sigg.

Sigg's School History & Fascination with CSI:

At Warren Tech, he was involved in a student organization called HOSA, or Health Occupation Students of America, where he competed in state-wide competitions, placing as a finalist in forensic science and biotechnology categories.

...he was studying mortuary science at Arapahoe Community College.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...man-who-kidnapped-and-killed-jessica-ridgeway

 

[Suthrnqt]

What a very nice compliment, loveboxerkisses. Thank you for the acknowledgement and kind words, I appreciated it greatly.

I see that you are new to WS so first let me welcome you :seeya:and you are going to find we have many posters who are very knowledgeable people who you will enjoy reading their posts as well.

It is very heartbreaking that this is the end of two beautiful lives who were living out they rest of their lives together just like they had done for 62 years.

We are living in scary times now with so many elderly being targeted when it comes to violent heinous crimes such as these. There was a point in time we never locked our doors and we always kept our firearms locked away inaccessible to us. For so long we too had the false sense of security but we have come to realize things like this can happen anywhere and everywhere even in supposedly very safe neighborhoods.

In fact it seems to me that murderers have now learn the places to target are places where little violent crime happens. LE does tell us that the criminals are getting smarter and smarter and it seems to be the case now.

This would be like murdering someone in Mayberry RFD where we had the false impression it could never happen in places like that but it can and it has and it will happen again.

Thanks again for all the sweet words. You are going to really like it here, I promise.

BBB

I live a little south of Mount Airy, NC, the town that Mayberry was based on. And all I can say is, don't be bringing that evil on us ocean, don't be doing it. jk
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
:blushing:

 

[Cardinal47]

Sigg's School History & Fascination with CSI:

At Warren Tech, he was involved in a student organization called HOSA, or Health Occupation Students of America, where he competed in state-wide competitions, placing as a finalist in forensic science and biotechnology categories.

...he was studying mortuary science at Arapahoe Community College.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...man-who-kidnapped-and-killed-jessica-ridgeway

I wonder if somebody like Sigg might reside in the community.

Also the offspring of any butcher shops owners.

Just saying.

 

[Carolinapeach]

Are there restaurants on the lake? A lot of boaters take their boats when going out to eat at someplace with a dock.

I can only think of two on that end of the lake.

 

[shefner]

There are so many great thoughts and ideas going on here. I keep changing my mind about what happened. Anyone else?

I make up my own theory. I love it. Then I read someone else's theory. Oh geez...I love that one too.
Simply perplexing.

 

[tomkat]

I can only think of two on that end of the lake.

one closed last year, but there are stores and gas too, dukes dawgs near 441 and Jacksons, off the water at the campground, easily walk over

ok thanks! I wasn't sure if she was showing it or if her own residence

 

[Carolinapeach]

one closed last year, but there are stores and gas too, dukes dawgs near 441 and Jacksons, off the water at the campground, easily walk over

ok thanks! I wasn't sure if she was showing it or if her own residence

Same two I was thinking of. Wish we had more!

 

[jggordo]

Deed of Assent

Thank you Carolina peach. So as I understand it there is a trustee for the other benefactors of the sale of the property? And has been in that position for nearly two years?

With property values being in the millions in many cases I wonder if there is not something hinky with the properties/families or benefactors in that lake area?

JMO's

 

[tomkat]

There are so many great thoughts and ideas going on here. I keep changing my mind about what happened. Anyone else?

I make up my own theory. I love it. Then I read someone else's theory. Oh geez...I love that one too.
Simply perplexing.

THeories, yes I do too, only one other tho, but then there are certain facts that remain unchanged NO MATTER what theory it is

IDK know how it's all related or to whom but I do think some things on here make me bounce back and forth, I especially agree with the "DID IT ON THE BOAT THEORY"

BUT STILL, WHO

still can't get past it being sophisticated criminal, beheading, experts saying targeted, perp angry, premeditated due to perp coming prepared, not an easy task, TARGETED

if there was more than one PERP, then one could have been more knowledgeable of the lake, not necessarily all involved, just speculating

 

[Foxfire]

Is their a gas dock at a marina on the Lake? Also the gas stations/convenience stores in the area's security cameras should be scrutinized on the critical dates, imo..