GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 3

[Hickory Born]

The perfect crime scene. The vacant house next door!

Anybody happen to have pictures? I am wondering how close the homes are to each other.

The house is NOT vacant. I think it is time to stop sleuthing this neighbor!

 

[Nuvolari]

I have to respectfully disagree...There's too many twists and turns in Lake Oconee from their house to where her body was found, also it's a man-made lake FULL of areas with stumps, roots, old dead trees, etc. That's why Sills said her body was "placed there" - it would be a miracle for her to drift along the bottom of the lake from their house to where she was found. Remember that the deceased will sink and remain at the bottom of the lake until decomposition produces enough gases to cause it to float to the surface.

So, if the science is typical, a corpse would begin to rise within 4 to 5 days, beginning when the corpse density became less than 1.0 and then decreasing more with time. It would then begin to drift as soon as it was clear of any obstructions, finally rising up out of the water enough to be seen. True? 7 or 8 days would elapse before it was discovered, after it had risen. Could it have been missed if it drifted downsteam?

If the corpse was placed, as LE says, deliberately, and the crime took place at the house, would the killer have carried SD from the house to the D's dock, put the corpse in a boat, moved the boat (paddles or motor?) out of the cove and into the main channel, proceeded downstream almost 6 miles, arrived at the point of placement, placed the corpse possibly using a weight or maybe not, departed the point of placement and went somewhere from there. What possible motive could there be for taking such a great risk?

If the corpse volume increased by 1.6 cubic feet, it would have lifted a 100 pound weight off the bottom. Boat anchors are typically less than 20 pounds.

Did LE say the corpse was "placed (there)" or "placed in the vicinity"?

 

[tomkat]

Nothing in that lake is going to feed off a human body.


Crappie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

More than crappie in the lake

but even in the natalie holloway case, of course different location, different fish, but the speculation was that she would probably never be found due to that

And not the BODY in tact like pirhanas would eat but the decomposition possibly

also was there less likely to have forensics or clues to trace back to the perps, if body was placed in water as opposed to land

 

[tomkat]

Hopefully some home owners along the route had security cameras mounted on their docks trained on their boats,that might have picked something up.
My neighbors can read a license plate 100 ft away on a moonless night.
His is activated by motion, but I guess a lake moves all the time.

Even if all they got was a boat, they might be able to expand the investigation.
moo

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hmmm, ocassionally we see idiots in boats on the water at night WITHOUT NAVIGATION LIGHTS

Hmmm, will wonder about THAT in the future

dumb, drunk or up to nooo goood

 

[Carolinapeach]

Per WSB:
It appears the sheriff's department was attempting today to eliminate a deputy's boot print found at the Dermond's house. Showed film of the boot tread impressions being moved outside the sheriff's department. WSB says this was not confirmed by LE.

My summary, not verbatim.

 

[tomkat]

The house is NOT vacant. I think it is time to stop sleuthing this neighbor!

Someone stated that

 

[Hickory Born]

So, if the science is typical, a corpse would begin to rise within 4 to 5 days, beginning when the corpse density became less than 1.0 and then decreasing more with time. It would then begin to drift as soon as it was clear of any obstructions, finally rising up out of the water enough to be seen. True? 7 or 8 days would elapse before it was discovered, after it had risen. Could it have been missed if it drifted downsteam?

If the corpse was placed, as LE says, deliberately, and the crime took place at the house, would the killer have carried SD from the house to the D's dock, put the corpse in a boat, moved the boat (paddles or motor?) out of the cove and into the main channel, proceeded downstream almost 6 miles, arrived at the point of placement, placed the corpse possibly using a weight or maybe not, departed the point of placement and went somewhere from there. What possible motive could there be for taking such a great risk?

If the corpse volume increased by 1.6 cubic feet, it would have lifted a 100 pound weight off the bottom. Boat anchors are typically less than 20 pounds.

Did LE say the corpse was "placed (there)" or "placed in the vicinity"?[/

If this particular spot is suppose to be prime for fishing, why didn't someone notice the body when it first came to the surface? Do you think it took 2 weeks for it to surface?

 

[Nuvolari]

Per the detailed location, for reference only. As for scale, the straight line distance from the home to the Long Shoals boat ramp is 2.3 miles.

 

[tomkat]

True, but coupled together, if anyone went to church with them that also attended the party and knew they were to attend, seems someone would have called, not blaming anyone, just thinking on screen, lol,

but it wouldn't have solved anything and it was too late (i guess) anyway sadly

I can see why no one would call because they missed church on Sunday. If either of them lived alone I bet they e could have. They looked after each other and I am sure no one suspected they had both been harmed.

It is too bad that the party goers didn't call to check on them and follow up sooner. Perhps even a welfare check since she did RSVP and didn't call to tell anyone they decided not to attend.



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[tomkat]

Per the detailed location, for reference only. As for scale, the straight line distance from the home to the Long Shoals boat ramp is 2.3 miles.

as a point of reference, and she was found CLOSER to the dam than her home

thanks!

 

[tomkat]

So, if the science is typical, a corpse would begin to rise within 4 to 5 days, beginning when the corpse density became less than 1.0 and then decreasing more with time. It would then begin to drift as soon as it was clear of any obstructions, finally rising up out of the water enough to be seen. True? 7 or 8 days would elapse before it was discovered, after it had risen. Could it have been missed if it drifted downsteam?

If the corpse was placed, as LE says, deliberately, and the crime took place at the house, would the killer have carried SD from the house to the D's dock, put the corpse in a boat, moved the boat (paddles or motor?) out of the cove and into the main channel, proceeded downstream almost 6 miles, arrived at the point of placement, placed the corpse possibly using a weight or maybe not, departed the point of placement and went somewhere from there. What possible motive could there be for taking such a great risk?

If the corpse volume increased by 1.6 cubic feet, it would have lifted a 100 pound weight off the bottom. Boat anchors are typically less than 20 pounds.

Did LE say the corpse was "placed (there)" or "placed in the vicinity"?[/

If this particular spot is suppose to be prime for fishing, why didn't someone notice the body when it first came to the surface? Do you think it took 2 weeks for it to surface?

she was hung in the bramble........................?????? It's dark as dung out there at night, note the uninhabited areas all over down NEAR the dam, I mean within miles, not AT THE DAMDAM haha

 

[tomkat]

I've been thinking about these questions from everyone about where the murders might have taken place, and where Mr. D was decapitated... Now that we're almost sure they didn't come in or leave by car, the only thing that makes sense to me is that all of this took place on a boat. My theory is that someone they knew came by, and asked them to go for a boat ride, maybe to watch the sunset? A few years ago, we would often be playing out on the water all day at our lake house on Jackson, but the only time my elderly dad would ever go out for a boat ride with us was at sunset/happy hour. The water would be calmer, the lake peaceful, stars starting to come out...you get the picture - we wouldn't stay out long, but it would always be almost dark by the time we got back to our dock...

This is how I think the person they knew got them into the boat, then maybe they pretended to break down or something, staying on the lake until after it's dark enough, then hitting both on the head and killing them there in the boat. There are MANY secluded areas on Lake Oconee, uninhabited coves and shoreline where it's just woods with no one around - it would be easy to find a spot where they could appear to break down, spend a while pretending to try to start the boat until it was completely dark, then eliminate the couple. I think they then drove to the spot where they dropped Shirley's body hoping it would become entangled in the tree stumps and never be found, then drove Mr. D's body back to the house. Somewhere along the way they detached the head and I think deposited it in a different location from Mrs. D. The mess would all be confined to the boat which could be washed out or maybe they even sunk the boat later in a third location... I think Mr. D's body was wrapped up in something (like some plastic) and the comments about the body being moved or drug "just a few feet" into the garage, were the result of the body being laid on the ground and then drug off the sheet into it's final resting place inside the garage. I think Mr. D's body was returned to the home for either A.) shock value and to throw off LE, or B.) to send a specific message to someone or possibly a message to the "community."

It seems to me that Sills is pretty sure the decapitation happened somewhere else - at around the 4:05 mark in this video he says the following: "Within an hour of responding to this call our cadaver dogs had searched the immediate vicinity, and wooded area around the home. Not the entire greenspace there but the ENTIRE area immediately adjacent to that, we've done all that." (BBM)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7utUlmCnZOk&feature=player_embedded

"After the body was found, deputies in a boat dragged the 13-foot-deep water near the couple’s house. Investigators also called in the cadaver dog, to no avail." (BBM)

http://www.macon.com/2014/05/08/3087453/decapitation-unlikely-cause-of.html#storylink=cpy

If the murder and decapitation had happened in the yard or on the dock, it seems to me the cadaver dogs would have hit on something in those areas, there would be traces of blood in those areas besides just the spot where they found his body. That's why I think it all happened in a boat. I think this was premeditated and very carefully planned out by someone known to the Dermond's.

JMO

THIS..........is PERFECT

 

[tomkat]

So, if the science is typical, a corpse would begin to rise within 4 to 5 days, beginning when the corpse density became less than 1.0 and then decreasing more with time. It would then begin to drift as soon as it was clear of any obstructions, finally rising up out of the water enough to be seen. True? 7 or 8 days would elapse before it was discovered, after it had risen. Could it have been missed if it drifted downsteam?

If the corpse was placed, as LE says, deliberately, and the crime took place at the house, would the killer have carried SD from the house to the D's dock, put the corpse in a boat, moved the boat (paddles or motor?) out of the cove and into the main channel, proceeded downstream almost 6 miles, arrived at the point of placement, placed the corpse possibly using a weight or maybe not, departed the point of placement and went somewhere from there. What possible motive could there be for taking such a great risk?

If the corpse volume increased by 1.6 cubic feet, it would have lifted a 100 pound weight off the bottom. Boat anchors are typically less than 20 pounds.

Did LE say the corpse was "placed (there)" or "placed in the vicinity"?[/

If this particular spot is suppose to be prime for fishing, why didn't someone notice the body when it first came to the surface? Do you think it took 2 weeks for it to surface?

hung up in the bramble underwater................

 

[Nuvolari]

as a point of reference, and she was found CLOSER to the dam than her home

thanks!

Per the detailed description, the corpse was found 3.4 miles from the dam. Was the description wrong?

 

[Foxfire]

Horrible crime no matter who is killed but
IMHOO someone kidnapping, raping and decapitating a child is a little bit different than an adult.

No, it is not CHERIE.T, it's just the opposite end of the spectrum, imo. Especially, if the adults were mine or your 87 year old grandparents...JMO

CHERIE.T, The reason for my post was to show that Adam Walsh's case went cold for 27 years due to the Hollywood Police Detectives refusal to utilize all available investigative resources(egos)> Very Experienced, Miami Beach Homicide Detective SGT Joe Matthews, was left out of the loupe and eventually fired...

Putnam County Sheriff Howard Sills' selfish refusal to utilize all available investigative resources in the Dermond investigation; The GBI's very experienced special agents and other resources due to his over-inflated ego, imo...

 

[tlcya]

hung up in the bramble underwater................

or pardon my yuck, the body was weighed down and via time, decomp gases and sloughing of tissue the means by which it was weighted were no longer effective and it then floated up

 

[Carolinapeach]

she was hung in the bramble........................??????

They described the area as stump filled on WSB. Showed a shot of the lake with dead trees sticking up out of the water. I could see maybe three of four tall trees in the water from their shot. Now I feel sick when I think of the description "placed."

 

[tomkat]

so I GUESS NOW ANYTHINGS possible!!!!
http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/national/elephant-spotted-florida-beach/nfzFS/

 

[tomkat]

Per the detailed description, the corpse was found 3.4 miles from the dam. Was the description wrong?

OH NO NO, sorry, just noting that it WAS closer to the dam than their house, some thought it meant litterally at the dam in the articles online

THANK YOU

 

[tomkat]

or pardon my yuck, the body was weighed down and via time, decomp gases and sloughing of tissue the means by which it was weighted were no longer effective and it then floated up

ezackery !