GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 4

[Hickory Born]

Hi all. Been following this case for a few weeks, but this is my first post. I can't stop thinking about this poor couple and a few things I'm not sure about. I hope I'm not breaking any of the rules.

1. How can LE be sure the house isn't the murder scene? Couldn't Mr. D have been struck in the house without leaving evidence? There's not necessarily blood when punched or hit with an object. Then he could have been dragged into the garage while unconscious or suffocated before the decapitation. Could suffocation or strangulation be determined from an autopsy without the head?

2. If the head is in the lake and weighted, would there ever be enough gasses created to make it rise to the surface? Do the gasses eventually dissipate enough that it would sink again or would it float forever? If it is near where Mrs. D's body was found, could it be tangled in the underwater brush and held there indefinitely?

3. I'm not sure I believe even the neatest people could keep a 3500sqft home immaculate without help. Even if they never used half the rooms in the house, dust still build up, toilets and bathtubs need to be scrubbed and mold grows easily here in the south. And living on a lake, I image there would be lots of bugs, spiderwebs and other pests. Plus the upkeep of the homes exterior, landscaping, heat/ac unit, chimney maintenance. That is A LOT of work for people nearing 90, even if in good health and mind.

4. Did they have any pets? Does the house have a basement? Has it been determined if the garage is attached to the house?

Welcome!
According to the Putnam County GA Tax Assessor website, the house did have a basement which was 75% of total upstairs square footage. Also this website shows the garage attached to the house. The basement was a walk-out on the side of the house facing the lake and looks to have the footprint of the house's main level.

I just looked at the sketch of the house again and might have figured out garages. There is one section marked garage that is your normal 23x23 for a double car garage. Then there is another section marked garage that is about 12x36. I think that might have been storage for the boat and possibly a golf cart.

 

[fred&edna]

I would assume there are quite a few lakefront homes throughout Reynolds Plantation owned by couples over the age of 80 that are as large or larger than the Dermonds... so, why were these two people targeted specifically?? Could there be something about them that was different? Or was it something specific to their home? (obviously, I'm just ramble-thinking... and would that be called rambinking? )

 

[mck16]

I would assume there are quite a few lakefront homes throughout Reynolds Plantation owned by couples over the age of 80 that are as large or larger than the Dermonds... so, why were these two people targeted specifically?? Could there be something about them that was different? Or was it something specific to their home? (obviously, I'm just ramble-thinking... and would that be called rambinking? )

I think it had to do with the secluded location. jmo

 

[Happyshoes]

My first post, too...I read about (+ watch) so many true crime stories but this one is truly baffling. I agree with most that someone came to their house Fri evening; they talked to Mr. D outside and when the conversation got heated, this person hit Mr. D in the head. I'm guessing Mrs. D came out thru the garage when she heard voices being raised, then the perp had to eliminate her, too. He possibly felt bad about hitting a woman, which made him so mad at Mr. D, he swung his axe/machete? to his throat (kind of "look what you made me do?" feeling). Now he feels bad about leaving Mrs. D to be found, maybe even wanted to bury her?...so he takes her (and the head?) to the lake to get rid of them on his way back to his house/campsite. I don't think he was smart enough to know he was entering into another jurisdiction/county line, just went to a spot he thought would keep her down once he had tied her to an underwater stump. I don't think it was planned. Hope I don't sound too juvenile in this post. Love reading everyone's input here and I certainly hope they catch this creep or creeps. Could have been two guys. They didn't care enough for Mr. D to make the effort to carry his body to the lake or make two trips because they might be seen. As for motive, I would think money, even if it was a small amount someone felt they were owed. In my humble opinion. Thanks for letting me vent!

 

[Anniesflowers]

I've been thinking a lot about this sweet couple. I'm wondering if Mr. D's head could have been removed to conceal DNA evidence? Maybe there was some sort of scuffle before the killing, and Mr. D was able to bite the person. Maybe the perp(s) are convicted felons, and their DNA is in the system.

 

[Foxfire]

This article mentions that both of their cars were in the garage.
"Case results in talk, frustration"
http://www.msgr.com/news/local_news/article_58fc8010-db9a-11e3-990e-0019bb2963f4.html

RE: Frustration....

In all cases of homicide, especially horrific high profile homicide cases where dismemberment or decapitation is involved. All available investigative resources must be utilized to not only insure swift justice for the innocent victims and their families, but to reinstill the sense of peace and tranquility within the community.. This can only be accomplished once the perpetrator/s are identified and brought to justice.

It is the not knowing that is the worst for the families of the missing/murdered, who have been inducted into the involuntary fraternity of the new life's normal. In the S & R Dermond, abduction/murder/decapitation, the once serene RP & GW lakeside community has also been inducted into this involuntary fraternity of the new life's normal, imo.

The Dermond family, or the lives of the community will never be the same as it was the day before this horrific crime occurred..

I salute Putnam County Sheriff Howard Sills for initially requesting the unlimited investigative resources of the FBI in the Dermond case. Now that SD's remains have been located, their assistance may be limited, imo. The Special Agents and other resources of the GBI should be requested to bring in fresh minds and eyes to fill in this gap, imo..

 

[Happyshoes]

Can I get a welcome? Unsure whether to keep posting...

 

[Jo in Calif]

Welcome, welcome Happyshoes, so glad you joined us, by all means keep posting.

 

[Foxfire]

Can I get a welcome? Unsure whether to keep posting...

Welcome Happyshoes..

 

[Hickory Born]

I don't think someone tied Mrs. D to a stump...too much trouble and too difficult. First the killer has to get in the water and then pull her in the water. The dead body is going to sink, but the killer has to hold on to it but then he needs to dive under water, find a stump, and then try tying her without dropping her...all this accomplished in murky lake water. Don't think this happened. Much easier to attach a weight to her.

And WELCOME Happy Shoes! Please keep posting.

 

[epiphany]

Can I get a welcome? Unsure whether to keep posting...

:welcome5:

 

[shefner]

I just don't see a workman or someone like that killing them. The motive is the stickler. Since nothing was disturbed and wallets, keys, cars, etc, were still in place, robbery wasn't the motive.

What...what...what was it?! Its driving me nuts.

I see three things:
1. Revenge
2. Personal Anger
3. Personal/Financial gain

 

[oceanblueeyes]

:
Originally Posted by oceanblueeyes View Post



HI OBE!
Respectfully what makes you think the D's are close to their family?
I haven't read anything that alluded to that. LOL NOT that I've read every article. TIA

I haven't seen anything at all that says otherwise. If it was important enough for them to build their home so they would have equal distances between their children's homes then that shows me they are very close. And wanted it to be in a spot where they could either travel the same distance to see their sons in Florida or have them come there or they could travel the same distance to see their daughter in NC or her daughter wouldn't have to travel so far to come see her mom and dad. And her daughter and children iirc had just been for a visit on Easter.

What makes you think they were distant from their children? Iirc in one article I read the people at the GW community said that Shirley often talked about her children.

IMO

 

[epiphany]

LE/FBI must have an idea what type of tool was used in the decapitation.

Did the perp/s bring the tool used for committing this depraved act? In this case, it was planned; IMO they came prepared.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

:welcome: peppery!

Great first post and all great questions.

I think you are right about blunt force trauma not necessarily leaving a bloody mess where it occurred. I also agree that it could have gone down as you describe with the striking blows delivered in the house or just about anywhere and them not leaving a visible crime scene there.

I am not even sure a severed head would float up after being submerged. The human body fills with gases but I haven't seen any sort of decomp research on a submerged head without its body attached. So it may not even need to be weighted down to stay submerged if in the lake.

Look forward to reading more of your thoughts on this one.

I think a blow to the skull or multiple blows that was forceful enough to kill someone would leave a tremendous amount of blood. The head bleeds profusely even if someone may hit their head on a sharp edge of a cabinet and just has a little cut. The scalp is thin and soft.

Someone did put up an article today about another severed head that floated to shore. The brain would still be inside of the skull cavity and it would go through the same decomp process that the body does. Plus the tissue under the facial skin will also bloat and make it rise.

I really don't think this killer even put the head in the water. He seems to like to separate body evidence and put them in separate places. Like McDaniels did he could have disposed of the head in some other way either by burying it or dropping it off in a trash dumpster tied up tightly in garbage bags.

IMO

 

[Happyshoes]

Thanks so much for the hearty welcomes! I was doing ok there with my theory until I got to how Mrs. D got into the water. Was she weighed down? I thought I saw "tied down". I have no clue how you put a body underwater but am so glad she surfaced. I hope they will have more info after this long weekend. This person(s) must be caught! I am so sorry for their family, to lose your elderly loved ones this way has got to be the worst. They looked like the nicest people on the planet! Many thoughts and wishes for all their loved ones.

 

[tlcya]

Can I get a welcome? Unsure whether to keep posting...

silly wabbit, of course you are :welcome: I am so sorry I missed your entry into the discussion but I am thrilled each time someone new dives in to share their thoughts. We don't bite and welcome all

 

[fred&edna]

Maybe the head is still with the killer/s - as it was part of some weird extortion plan??

 

[tlcya]

I just don't see a workman or someone like that killing them. The motive is the stickler. Since nothing was disturbed and wallets, keys, cars, etc, were still in place, robbery wasn't the motive.

What...what...what was it?! Its driving me nuts.

I see three things:
1. Revenge
2. Personal Anger
3. Personal/Financial gain

adding

4; Self Preservation

 

[Bootsctr]

Can I get a welcome? Unsure whether to keep posting...

:greetings::wagon::welcome5::welcome6::welcome4:

So glad to have you here and posting! Always good to have a new poster on board. Looking forward to reading more of your thoughts and theories! :seeya: