GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 4

[mck16]

Oh sorry, I wish I knew where I found that. I will keep looking. (I hope it wasn't an older article posted with a recent date--thus the confusion.) The article recapped the case and talked about how her mom misses her terribly, especially on holidays such as Christmas. It also said her mom and stepdad are no longer together. The arrests that come to mind are for other things--not for Celina's murder (maybe the young man who lived with them?). I'll keep looking!

That's okay Granna. I also followed that case here and it broke my heart that they were not able to make an arrest. You would think it would be so easy. Guess not!! I was just happy that maybe they had arrested someone. Thanks.

 

[Cbm]

. The daughter in this duo, a young woman, later died after falling as she tried to escape from the courthouse jail.

Ahhhh kharma!!!!!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I agree with your last paragraph. Also,in a previous post you mentioned it could have been a 'confrontation'(i apologize i was at a loss for the right word to use,confrontation is an awkward benign noun given the gruesome nature of this crime)that escalated into a execution style vendetta. Now,as to what the 'grievance' was that is the million dollar question.

I was happy to read your procedure went well. I know your happy to have it over and be resting comfortably at home.:rose:

BBM

Thank you. I go back the first part of June to have more procedures done, but for now, I get a reprieve from being prodded with needles and wires.

I really don't think it escalated into an execution style vendetta though. I truly think there were heated words exchanged by the perp and whomever he murdered first. We really don't know if Shirley was killed first and then Russ or if it was the other way around. But I do think both victims were murdered in a very short time period of each other.

I still believe whatever this confrontation was made the killer go ballistic into a total blind rage which caused the first victim to be murdered. I still also feel they could have picked up something close by them at the time when they became enraged to the point of murder and that is the weapon they used. The second victim, imo, was killed to eliminate a witness.

Imo the decapitation and disposal of Russ' head and Shirley's body was to hide evidence that would show how they both died, and what weapon was used, I think he knew if those things were known he felt it could connect him to the murders themselves.

IMO

 

[Granna6]

Ahhhh kharma!!!!!

Yes, and it catapulted me out of that it-can't-happen-in-our-family mentality. We felt fortunate they didn't shoot my dad, although it nearly scared him to death. The crime was pre-planned, as they had a weapon and get-away vehicle able to contain lots of valuables.

As for the Dermonds, I know how easily accessible lake homes are. We have friends who had a lake house much like the Dermonds'. Boaters drove their boats into the cove, nearly all the way up to the dock just to gawk. While staying overnight there, I often thought how vulnerable the house was.

Perhaps in the Dermonds' case, the couple was not as frail as the perps were led to believe: maybe plans were somehow hindered and they had to go to Plan B?

 

[Plumeria5]

Good coverage on HLN. From one view the house looked closer to the water than I imagined. For some reason I just got an eerie feeling when I saw the close-up of the little outdoor sofa that was sitting on the dock. I can picture them sitting out there on a warm evening enjoying the view. Could that have been where the initial attack happened? Easy to wash away evidence there.

 

[Canaille]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5F3lvkQQvI

10min vid, interview w sheriff today or yesterday.

At 3:05, he says [mostly my paraphrasing] whether this was done "as a result of self preservation or pure meanness" it takes a certain level of depravity to kill 80+ y/o ppl, like this etc .

What is he saying ---"as a result of self preservation."
--- "pure meanness"
Thx in adv. :seeya:

Did he say ball bat?

 

[Renea]

I do not believe killer is someone that owns property in Great Waters. A murder in the neighborhood would bring down property values and sales.

 

[Cardinal47]

I didn't know them although they look familiar. I am sure they had many friends but they lived quietly and weren't high profile. Their home is very average for the neighborhood, It had never been on a tour of homes. The little inlet is quite secluded to be so close to the main lake.

One of the favorite pastimes of lake home dwellers is taking the boat out and looking at all the other properties from the lake...the usually more beautiful side. I have seen pictures and when the Dermond home is lit up at night with all the lights on upstairs and downstairs you can see everything.

So now I am wondering could that be the attraction? Could somebody have seen their movement around that huge home? Watched them and targeted them for some as of yet unknown reason.

 

[2Hope4]

Can't buy into the blind rage theory. In those cases, from what we've seen in prior instances, it's a bloody crime scene. Blood splatter on walls, ceilings, etc., from the frantic attack. And though Shirley is said to have died from blunt force trauma, the home doesn't show that. So where was the crime scene? Why would Shirley have been away from home with the perp? It's said their vehicles were in the garage...so did the Dermonds go to someone else's home? Go to a meeting somewhere with the perps? Why wasn't both bodies dumped in the lake?? The two different areas of leaving the bodies, as well as not knowing how Russell died has me baffled. IMO, it would have to be more than two perps! Otherwise, the perps only made more work for themselves, and more risk of being detected being at the home, or returning the body to the home!

IMO, at this moment anyway, I believe Mr. Dermond was killed very near the garage, and moved into the garage to delay being detected. Otherwise the mail person, or newspaper person, or anyone else in the community might have discovered him sooner laying on the yard, or driveway. Plus being outside would have gathered the attention of wildlife, particularly vultures, which I'm sure the neighborhood would have noticed.

For whatever reason, the perps wanted/needed BOTH Dermonds dead. Who gained from them being dead? What was their gain? Was it silencing them? Was it monetary gain?

Thinking back to a business deal gone wrong, or someone feeling it had gone wrong. IMO, most that move up that business ladder have stepped on or over several to get in the top position. Most don't get to the top by being nice, and generous. This is NOT to say anything bad about either Dermond! Not at all!! I'm only saying in a general sense of business and climbing that ladder. Please let me go ahead of you doesn't work so well. Money talks. But looking out for #1 also works in moving up. Can't drag along number two while climbing the ladder. Too much extra weight.

I did think about the derby party, but then realized we have the 'elite' in our area that also had a huge derby party with the fancy hats, etc. It isn't necessarily the elite that attended, but the social club type people. Those that enjoy rubbing elbows with others. I know two ladies that attended that aren't rich. They do have horses, but not as a huge business now. They are more into self sufficient farming than the horse business. BUT, they both keep their foot in the horse business. They attend horse shows and are often hired to judge the shows. So the need to keep those contacts.

I briefly wondered if the Dermonds could have interest in one of the horses that raced, but now I don't think so. Haven't seen or heard anything to make me really believe either way, just gut feeling. Having worked in horse rescue for decades now, I can say the racing industry is brutal. The horses mean nothing to most of those involved. Horse makes over a $1 million, but becomes lame, blind, etc., it goes to slaughter, or given to a rescue as a tax write off. I am not kidding either. They are given good care while they are making the money, but afterwards, they are discarded. If they don't bring in the money, they are discarded. The horses mean nothing to them. It sickens me, and I refuse to watch the races because I know the brutal training the horses endure as well. NO thanks! Most horses are not owned by just one person either. They have investors. They have a training team. Care takers, etc. MONEY! Sorry, got off topic, just very passionate about my animals.

 

[al66pine]

snipped for focus

. ...Perhaps in the Dermonds' case, the couple was not as frail as the perps were led to believe: maybe plans were somehow hindered and they had to go to Plan B?

Yes, Plan A vs. Plan B concept keeps running thru my mind.

Did the perp(s) plan this when stone cold sober?
Did they cover the various considerations to carry out the plan successfully?
i.e., was it WELL PLANNNED to achieve their mission?
Did PLAN A work out as they anticipated?

OR
Did they start with their carefully considered plan A, which went sideways for some reason(s) (e.g., unexpected visitor rings doorbell and interrupts their conversation w the D's, or UPS delivers package or someone shows up at D's dock), then they went to Plan B and it did not work, then downhill into ad-libbing, then all the way to panicky actions on their part?

OR
Did perp(s) PLAN CONTACT w the D's that day (i.e., they intended to have conversation, maybe a verbal request of the D's) and emotions flared and it all SUDDENLY ESCALATED out of control. They did not have a Plan B.

OR
Did perp(s) have UNPLANNED CONTACT w the D's that day and emotions flared and it all SUDDENLY ESCALATED out of control. Since contact was unplanned, there was not Plan A or Plan B

Idea of
Killing RD, beheading him, removing head, leaving the rest in garage;
Killing SD and transporting her entire body w them---
imo, seems unlikely to be Plan A.
Unless it is a thrill-kill of a psychopath trying to confound LE & public.
(Once again, I'm thinking of Lauren Giddings' 2011 death and the monster Steve McDaniel, who entered guilty plea last month, who, imo, wanted to see if he could commit 'the perfect murder' as he thought, imo, nobody would suspect him)

End of ramble. :seeya:

 

[2Hope4]

And if some type of ransom demands have been made, I don't think we would know about it. Not yet, but maybe later in the investigation. It would do nothing to let that information out since both bodies have been found now.

The home being in immaculate condition. Someone didn't want that home ruined. Someone didn't want the crime scene within the home. WHO? and WHY? If someone random came by, doubtful they would care if the home had blood in every room since they've nothing to gain from the home. Even when we've seen cases of husbands or wives killing their spouses, the care of the home is rarely thought about. Look how Travis Alexander was murdered. There was no concern about his home. No concern about a bloody crime scene within his home. Jodi knew she wouldn't benefit from the home in any way. Nothing for her to lose to kill him in the home.

From the few photos I've seen of the Dermonds, Mr. Dermond didn't appear thin and frail. He appeared heavy. I don't think one person could have killed him, beheaded him, and moved the body. Could one person have killed him? Sure. But moving him would have difficult, IMO, though not impossible. The term 'dead weight' is for a reason. People are MUCH heavier and harder to move when they aren't conscious. I've had many patients that were that way, as well as helped to clean the bodies of the deceased while working in nursing homes. It's difficult, though in the nursing home capacity, you're still paying respect to the deceased, so maybe that makes a difference. In a brutal murder, I doubt you'd care if bruises, or skin tears occurred.

This case just makes me scream!

 

[Cardinal47]

Just thinking about my own neighborhood and I don't think it a bit unusual that neighbors that far apart didn't notice anything amiss.

My neighborhood has large 1/2 acre lots. We are and have good neighbors but honestly they could lay dead all Winter and I would have no idea.

The neighbors across the street I visually see more of but if I didn't see anybody there for say two weeks I would not wonder because they come and go and never tell anybody of their travels. They used to have the next door neighbor take in their mail but she moved so I have no idea what they do now.

Perhaps younger people are more attuned to their friends and neighbors but older folks seem to like and respect each others privacy.

Tired from raising families and the hectic work schedule of a lifetime most just leave one another alone until they surface at their leisure.

Young people would call if somebody missed an RSPV party. Older folks just figure something happened and leave them alone.


Bad news travels fast enough so they don't have to go looking for it!

 

[MizStery]

It seems I am the only one who heard the sheriff say anything about opening the door. I am not sure if I should delete my post and wait for transcript. Could the mods comment.


In the HLN segment....I listened for the answer the sheriff gave (he parsed his words) reguarding if the Dermonds were acquainted with the murder's. He said that they "opened" their door to the killers. Now,this places both Russell and Shirley inside the residence. Now,it would be interesting to know who opened the door. So,at this point can we include a home invasion...that I would assume means perps having came prepared for executing a crime. So,perhaps we can go to motive. But wait...we already 'think we know' no property was taken. Not sure if my assumptions are right?

Now,please correct anything in my post which is inacurate. MOO

 

[2Hope4]

And ALL families have secrets!! Some unknown to even their children! In doing our family tree, I quickly discovered how many secrets abound. Nothing sinister really, but kids were raised by cousins and didn't know their real parents. Or someone else had adopted a child, but it wasn't known by most that the child was adopted. Things of that sort. One of my grandmothers was quick to tell me any and everything she knew about the family and secrets from those that had passed away. My other grandma, no way, no how! She'd told my Mom some things over the years, but wouldn't tell me because she knew I was documenting for the family tree. She wanted no part of me having those secrets. Even down to someone being fired for stealing on the job, who then owned their business and was very successful. Grandma wouldn't even tell me the person had worked at that previous job! Just the way she was.

The Demonds were in their 80's. They had lived a long time, and it's likely things were not known to even their kids. Business deals probably wasn't a conversation over family gatherings. Heck I'm in my 40's and there's definitely things my kids have no clue about! I mentioned fibromyalgia to my son who is in his 20's, and he had no clue what it was! I've had fibro for over 10yrs and haven't hid the fact, yet he didn't know!

 

[mck16]

In the HLN segment....I listened for the answer the sheriff gave (he parsed his words) reguarding if the Dermonds were acquainted with the murder's. He said that they "opened" their door to the killers. Now,this places both Russell and Shirley inside the residence. Now,it would be interesting to know who opened the door. So,at this point can we include a home invasion...that I would assume means perps having came prepared for executing a crime. So,perhaps we can go to motive. But wait...we already 'think we know' no property was taken. Not sure if my assumptions are right?

Now,please correct anything in my post which is inacurate. MOO

I wonder what he is not sharing to make him think they opened their door to the killers.

 

[MizStery]

I wonder what he is not sharing to make him think they opened their door to the killers.

This what is worring me,"Did I Hear him correctly?" i do not have the ability to replay the segment. Does anyone else remember his wording? I DO NOT want to put words in the sheriffs mouth!

Please anyone who listened please comment.

 

[2Hope4]

Wonder how they knew the Dermonds opened the door to the perps??? Was it because the security was turned off in order to open the door??? Would they be able to determine the time that occurred?? Otherwise, how do they know the door wasn't unlocked, and someone walked in? Unless someone came in wearing gloves, there should be fingerprints. BUT, if this person normally wore gloves as part of their job, I guess letting them in with gloves on wouldn't seem abnormal.

I'm still why two methods of disposing of the bodies?? And why no crime scene in the home? How did the perp get the Dermonds to leave the safety of their home to go with them? By force? With a gun? Stun gun? I don't know. But to say they let the perps into the home, how would they know that?? And why then did the Dermonds go with the perp?? Did they hire someone to do their landscaping??? If so, maybe the perp said "You've got a problem with the rhodendrons, they appear to have a blight, or something. Come look, and see what you think!".... Maybe someone doing a termite inspection or spraying?? "There's evidence of termites near the deck. Come see."... I'm only brainstorming... no the quotes aren't from a MSM!

Maybe someone not known to them, but used the same type of ruse to get them out of the house...but why?? When they had the cover of the home?? I'm thinking like someone knocking on the door, "I'm sorry, I just backed into your mail box. I'm willing to replace it." Both go to see the damage?? And then are abducted??

 

[gngr~snap]

And if some type of ransom demands have been made, I don't think we would know about it. Not yet, but maybe later in the investigation. It would do nothing to let that information out since both bodies have been found now.

The home being in immaculate condition. Someone didn't want that home ruined. Someone didn't want the crime scene within the home. WHO? and WHY? If someone random came by, doubtful they would care if the home had blood in every room since they've nothing to gain from the home. Even when we've seen cases of husbands or wives killing their spouses, the care of the home is rarely thought about. Look how Travis Alexander was murdered. There was no concern about his home. No concern about a bloody crime scene within his home. Jodi knew she wouldn't benefit from the home in any way. Nothing for her to lose to kill him in the home.

From the few photos I've seen of the Dermonds, Mr. Dermond didn't appear thin and frail. He appeared heavy. I don't think one person could have killed him, beheaded him, and moved the body. Could one person have killed him? Sure. But moving him would have difficult, IMO, though not impossible. The term 'dead weight' is for a reason. People are MUCH heavier and harder to move when they aren't conscious. I've had many patients that were that way, as well as helped to clean the bodies of the deceased while working in nursing homes. It's difficult, though in the nursing home capacity, you're still paying respect to the deceased, so maybe that makes a difference. In a brutal murder, I doubt you'd care if bruises, or skin tears occurred.

This case just makes me scream!

I first thought keeping the crime scene out of the house, not disturbing anything in it, showed that the perp for whatever reason was concerned about the resale of the residence. If there is a body at the scene, there will be a mess before it's all over.
Then it hit me, CSI can really mess a place up. Not that they have a choice, but it's sad considering how SD kept it immaculate.
Moo


Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

 

[mck16]

This what is worring me,"Did I Hear him correctly?" i do not have the ability to replay the segment. Does anyone else remember his wording? I DO NOT want to put words in the sheriffs mouth!

Please anyone who listened please comment.

I think at some point transcripts are made available. Not sure maybe someone else can confirm.

 

[Cardinal47]

And ALL families have secrets!! Some unknown to even their children! In doing our family tree, I quickly discovered how many secrets abound. Nothing sinister really, but kids were raised by cousins and didn't know their real parents. Or someone else had adopted a child, but it wasn't known by most that the child was adopted. Things of that sort. One of my grandmothers was quick to tell me any and everything she knew about the family and secrets from those that had passed away. My other grandma, no way, no how! She'd told my Mom some things over the years, but wouldn't tell me because she knew I was documenting for the family tree. She wanted no part of me having those secrets. Even down to someone being fired for stealing on the job, who then owned their business and was very successful. Grandma wouldn't even tell me the person had worked at that previous job! Just the way she was.

The Demonds were in their 80's. They had lived a long time, and it's likely things were not known to even their kids. Business deals probably wasn't a conversation over family gatherings. Heck I'm in my 40's and there's definitely things my kids have no clue about! I mentioned fibromyalgia to my son who is in his 20's, and he had no clue what it was! I've had fibro for over 10yrs and haven't hid the fact, yet he didn't know!

The detective in the Abby Hernandez case said "Everybody has a Public life, a Private life and a Secret life".

I now wonder what the Secret life of the Dermonds could have been?