GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 6

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tomkat said:
right, not cables to lift the boat like most, D's is more like a "portable" lift, maybe hydraulics like you mentioned, they're purchased and installed, they aren't constructed like many docks are with cable at the ceiling to LIFT the boat
Click to expand...

I guess I'll need to take time to back up my MOO...think of it this way. In Georgia FRESH WATER lakes they use air lifters mostly for boats. It's a pump that displaces water with air to lift the boats from underneath. These with cables some are showing as examples...where all is above the water.... is more common where I lived in Florida with SALT WATER. Perhaps a regional thing? Due to galvanic/corrosion or ??? Don't know why the difference.

Again...others chime in or durn...I'm gonna have to spend time to google/investigate...and it's too late for that now tonight :giggle:
 
atthelake said:
I guess I'll need to take time to back up my MOO...think of it this way. In Georgia FRESH WATER lakes they use air lifters mostly for boats. It's a pump that displaces water with air to life the boats from underneat. These with cables some are showing as examples...where all is above the water.... is more common where I lived in Florida with SALT WATER. Perhaps a regional thing? Due to galvanic/corrosion or ??? Don't know why the difference.

Again...others chime in or durn...I'm gonna have to spend time to google/investigate...and it's too late for that now tonight :giggle:
Click to expand...

Do we know what kind of boat they had? Was it a big one, pontoon, etc? ty
 
Foxfire said:
Yep, atthelake, if the Forsyth Sheriff's Deputy had not been alert, the death toll yesterday would have been very high, imo. I ran into the daughter of Forsyth Co Sheriff Tallant(1950s) at the grocery store a few minutes ago. She grew up in the old Forsyth Co., jail and knows many of the courthouse workers and is related to a few of them.

Once they were evacuated, she said her aunt asked the Judge where he was going? The Judge said, "I am going straight to the Hospital and shake that deputy's hand and thank him for a job well done"!
Click to expand...

Follow-up O/T of shooting here in Atlanta area.... Forsyth County Courthouse Shooting - YouTube
www.youtube.com/watch?v=13n6TcgIrI8 is a video during the rampage from IMHO a construction worker across the street when it happened. I had not seen before...but looked up info on this for folks I was with when we drove by and I took that picture earlier today (past midnight lol so yesterday).
attachment.php


WARNING: NSFW language (= not suitable for work...bad language at the end...but that off color language at the very end by the construction worker... well... you'll see... you'll get a reaction to his comments for sure!) Us southerners know how to encapsulate the entire drama in 4 words!!! :blushing:
 
Hickory Born said:
Two observations, they probably don't mean anything. The steps do not have a railing. Looks to me like there is an empty large flower pot on one of the steps.

From the prospective of this aging gardener with a hip replacement. I don't like the looks of that, and we all know how slippery it is to walk on pinestraw going down hill...and I am in my late 60s, not 80s.

I am thinking they don't even go down to the dock at all.
Click to expand...

Your observations just popped something into my head -- just a possible scenario: Plan is to kidnap the Dermonds -- say, for ransom -- by boat, leaving from their own dock. Perps/s walking them down, at gunpoint maybe, or just kind of shoving them along. Russell --maybe he is struggling or trying to run away, maybe not -- slips and hits his head. Shirley witnesses it, of course.
 
Backwoods said:
Your observations just popped something into my head -- just a possible scenario: Plan is to kidnap the Dermonds -- say, for ransom -- by boat, leaving from their own dock. Perps/s walking them down, at gunpoint maybe, or just kind of shoving them along. Russell --maybe he is struggling or trying to run away, maybe not -- slips and hits his head. Shirley witnesses it, of course.
Click to expand...

quoting myself just to take it a bit further: Russell is unconscious and perp/s know/s the plan has been botched. Not thinking far ahead enough yet to know what they will end up doing with Shirley, but he/they know/s it won't work to take a seriously injured man along. Shirley is distraught, of course, so she's told, "Look, just keep quiet and get in the boat -- I'll/we'll take him back up to the garage and when we get a little ways away, we'll calll 911." But of course, that's not what actually happens -- once out of Shirley's sight, Russell is "dispatched" -- no chance of him waking up and describing the abductors....

BUT -- in this scenario, what did they do with his head? Stow it away in a bag or something and bring it along, out of Shirley's sight?

Just thinking out loud.
 
tomkat said:
Did that change under Obama? IDK, just remembering hearing something that it would or did change in regards to SW?
Click to expand...
Obama signed the Katie Sepich Act which provides grants to assist states in setting up a DNA arrestee collection program.

Litig8ter said:
I think in 2013 SCOTUS had an opinion that okayes DNA sample collection if you are arrested for a felony.

I'm pretty sure if you want to seize a toothbrush during an authorized search, you have to convince a Judge you have probable cause to believe the toothbrush has evidence of a crime, not just that it would be nice to have for DNA testing. Where it gets gray is if you are authorized to seize a gun because you convince the Judge that it was used in the crime, can you then try to extract DNA from it? Not sure. I know you can do ballistics tests on it once it is seized.
Click to expand...
Maryland v. King However, as of now, DNA is not collected from arrestees in Georgia without a court order or search warrant. See my post #497 for an explanation and links.
 
Hickory Born said:
Two observations, they probably don't mean anything. The steps do not have a railing. Looks to me like there is an empty large flower pot on one of the steps.

From the prospective of this aging gardener with a hip replacement. I don't like the looks of that, and we all know how slippery it is to walk on pinestraw going down hill...and I am in my late 60s, not 80s.

I am thinking they don't even go down to the dock at all.
Click to expand...

I need to clarify my last sentence above. "They" was meaning Mr/Mrs D on a normal basis.

Yes, I think" they" the killer/s took her body down those steps to a boat.
 
tomkat said:
Ok, so the Malaysia Flight 370. There is now a whistle blower REWARD ($5million!) offerered to anyone who can come forward and give information that can lead to key information in the missing jetliner case??

Reminds me of this

How do we feel about the Malaysia flight 370? Any chance it'll be found or anyone will know anythign?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/06/06/missing-plane-search-reward/10050933/
Click to expand...

Morning TK! :seeya: Horrible tragedy! I have no clue if they will turn up anything, but that is a mighty big reward. I read it as they are seeking to raise $5 million and then $3 million of that will go to the whistleblower. I'm sure that is enough money to bring some people out of the woods so to say. Will have to see if the information matches up with any viable evidence. I'm interested.
 
Treelights said:
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/exclusive-sheriff-says-reynolds-plantation-couple-/ngDzD/

"Deputies say someone killed and beheaded 88-year-old Russell Dermond on May 2 at his home in Great Waters Reynolds Plantation."

I missed this the first time I read it. The link states May 2nd Russell was killed.
Previously, it was either May 2nd or May 3rd.
I guess they have narrowed down the time line even further.
IMOO.
Click to expand...

That did jump out to me when I read it and I am certain the torso of Russ may have been the very thing used to narrow down the timeline.

However this part of the comment jumped out at me even more. It isn't something I have read before, I don't think.

Oh and btw, Mark Winne seems to already know they have other evidence that he is not releasing before Mark even asks him that question. He is one of the most respected Investigative Reporters in this area and is very trusted by those in LE.

Anyway here is the comment.

Deputies say someone killed and beheaded 88-year-old Russell Dermond on May 2 at his home in Great Waters Reynolds Plantation.Fishermen discovered the body of 87-year-old Shirley Dermond two weeks later in Lake Oconee.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/exclusive-sheriff-says-reynolds-plantation-couple-/ngDzD/


If this is true, this seems to indicate he did kill Russ in the garage and decapitated Russ' head before leaving the torso behind. Imo, this can only mean that Russ had been dead for hours before he decapitated him and that is why they found no blood spatter during the decapitation and if he had done it immediately after the murder there would have been some type of blood spew, imo.

Once a person dies all the blood will all pool to the area of the body that is laying closest to the ground. The ME should have been able to see a lot of bluing/blackish lividity showing how the body position was after death and if that position moved. And whether he had lain face up, face down or on his left or right side when he was murdered. Lividity begins to form gradually once the heart stops beating and is no longer pumping blood.

So if all the lividity is an area that is consistent with how he was found it would show them he most likely died where he lay when found and then much later after the blood would begin to congeal inside of the body his head was then removed. But if they have found lividity grouping in other areas of his torso that is conflicting then they will know he was at one time in a different position after he died and then finally left in the position as he was found.

I think the delay in the removal of the head was because he was in the middle of murdering Shirley at another location and getting her body ready to be disposed of in the deep water via his boat, imo.

Imo, he came back by the garage to remove the head right before he was ready to go out on the water to dispose of Shirley's body.


IMO
 
oceanblueeyes said:
That did jump out to me when I read it and I am certain the torso of Russ may have been the very thing used to narrow down the timeline.

However this part of the comment jumped out at me even more. It isn't something I have read before, I don't think.

Oh and btw, Mark Winne seems to already know they have other evidence that he is not releasing before Mark even asks him that question. He is one of the most respected Investigative Reporters in this area and is very trusted by those in LE.

Anyway here is the comment.

Deputies say someone killed and beheaded 88-year-old Russell Dermond on May 2 at his home in Great Waters Reynolds Plantation.Fishermen discovered the body of 87-year-old Shirley Dermond two weeks later in Lake Oconee.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/exclusive-sheriff-says-reynolds-plantation-couple-/ngDzD/


If this is true, this seems to indicate he did kill Russ in the garage and decapitated Russ' head before leaving the torso behind. Imo, this can only mean that Russ had been dead for hours before he decapitated him and that is why they found no blood spatter during the decapitation and if he had done it immediately after the murder there would have been some type of blood spew, imo.

Once a person dies all the blood will all pool to the area of the body that is laying closest to the ground. The ME should have been able to see a lot of bluing/blackish lividity showing how the body position was after death and if that position moved. And whether he lain face up, face down or on his left or right side when he was murdered. Lividity begins to form gradually once the heart stops beating and is no longer pumping blood.

So if all the lividity is an area that is consistent with how he was found it would show them he most likely died where he lay when found and then much later after the blood would begin to congeal inside of the body his head was then removed. But if they have found lividity grouping in other areas of his torso that is conflicting then they will know he was at one time in a different position after he died and then finally left in the position as he was found.

I think the delay in the removal of the head was because he was in the middle of murdering Shirley at another location and getting her body ready to be disposed of in the deep water via his boat, imo.

Imo, he came back by the garage to remove the head right before he was ready to go out on the water to dispose of Shirley's body.


IMO
Click to expand...

:goodpost:
 
gngr~snap said:
The Dermond's boat lift.
Two different places. The Dermond's dock still has crime scene tape across the water. It is so fast I'm not sure I can grab it.

urygy6un.jpg


All posts are my opinion only. Sent via Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Hope this pic shows up.

My latest thoughts (seems I have different ones every day). Will some men please chime-in on this. How would you get a dead body weighting 158 lbs down to the river by yourself?

Would you drag them down the sidewalk and steps? Would you thrown them over your shoulder and be able to walk down the sidewalk and steps?

Would you either drag or shoulder carry them down through the pinestraw?

Would your boat be at the dock or over near the sea wall?

I don't think one person could have done this alone without leaving a bunch of evidence.
 
bessie said:
Obama signed the Katie Sepich Act which provides grants to assist states in setting up a DNA arrestee collection program.

Maryland v. King However, as of now, DNA is not collected from arrestees in Georgia without a court order or search warrant. See my post #497 for an explanation and links.
Click to expand...

<BBM for Focus>

Bessie, imo, we are all aware that DNA, specifically familial DNA Laws have been a very effective investigative tool in missing/murdered persons cases.
From my research, a very high number of violent felonies and other crimes are committed by a very small percentage of the population. The recidivism rates of these violent felons are astronomical, imo.

As the US Supreme Court ruled in the Maryland vs King case, the taking of an arrestees DNA is synonymous to taking an arrestees fingerprints & mugshot at booking.

The 04/2008 Meredith Emerson DNA law was passed in GA with only one Legislator dissenting. This virtual unanimous decision was due to this horrific
crime which was committed by a recidivist predator and the inability to collect his DNA until conviction. Guess, once the spotlight of the MS Media went away. The importance of updated DNA Laws in GA were placed on the back burner..

Hopefully, the heinous abduction/murders/decapitation of the Dermonds will place DNA Laws back on the front burner during the next GA Legislature session.. :twocents:
 
Hickory Born said:
Hope this pic shows up.

My latest thoughts (seems I have different ones every day). Will some men please chime-in on this. How would you get a dead body weighting 158 lbs down to the river by yourself?

Would you drag them down the sidewalk and steps? Would you thrown them over your shoulder and be able to walk down the sidewalk and steps?

Would you either drag or shoulder carry them down through the pinestraw?

Would your boat be at the dock or over near the sea wall?

I don't think one person could have done this alone without leaving a bunch of evidence.
Click to expand...

What is pine straw? Is it something you purchase. What purpose does it serve? My only issue is I don't see any pine trees. I have pine needles all over my land and if it can be used for something useful I would like to know. Thanks.
 
oceanblueeyes said:
That did jump out to me when I read it and I am certain the torso of Russ may have been the very thing used to narrow down the timeline.

However this part of the comment jumped out at me even more. It isn't something I have read before, I don't think.

Oh and btw, Mark Winne seems to already know they have other evidence that he is not releasing before Mark even asks him that question. He is one of the most respected Investigative Reporters in this area and is very trusted by those in LE.

Anyway here is the comment.

Deputies say someone killed and beheaded 88-year-old Russell Dermond on May 2 at his home in Great Waters Reynolds Plantation.Fishermen discovered the body of 87-year-old Shirley Dermond two weeks later in Lake Oconee.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/exclusive-sheriff-says-reynolds-plantation-couple-/ngDzD/


If this is true, this seems to indicate he did kill Russ in the garage and decapitated Russ' head before leaving the torso behind. Imo, this can only mean that Russ had been dead for hours before he decapitated him and that is why they found no blood spatter during the decapitation and if he had done it immediately after the murder there would have been some type of blood spew, imo.

Once a person dies all the blood will all pool to the area of the body that is laying closest to the ground. The ME should have been able to see a lot of bluing/blackish lividity showing how the body position was after death and if that position moved. And whether he had lain face up, face down or on his left or right side when he was murdered. Lividity begins to form gradually once the heart stops beating and is no longer pumping blood.

So if all the lividity is an area that is consistent with how he was found it would show them he most likely died where he lay when found and then much later after the blood would begin to congeal inside of the body his head was then removed. But if they have found lividity grouping in other areas of his torso that is conflicting then they will know he was at one time in a different position after he died and then finally left in the position as he was found.

I think the delay in the removal of the head was because he was in the middle of murdering Shirley at another location and getting her body ready to be disposed of in the deep water via his boat, imo.

Imo, he came back by the garage to remove the head right before he was ready to go out on the water to dispose of Shirley's body.


IMO
Click to expand...

I am wondering if whatever the person was there for to see Shirley and Russell or only Russell, would be in the garage.....and that is why the front door was unlocked, to let this person in, and then maybe Russell and this person went into the garage for whatever reason, like was Russell in the process of selling something that was in the garage? Or did Russell want to show this person something in the garage, or did this person ask Russell that he wanted to see something in Russell's garage, knowing where this all was going to take place. And if it is One person, then this does make sense about going after Shirley then coming back to the garage to remove the head before he disposed of Shirley's body.
IMOO.

ETA:
I want to ask does HOME mean the garage as well?
 
Hickory Born said:
Hope this pic shows up.

My latest thoughts (seems I have different ones every day). Will some men please chime-in on this. How would you get a dead body weighting 158 lbs down to the river by yourself?

Would you drag them down the sidewalk and steps? Would you thrown them over your shoulder and be able to walk down the sidewalk and steps?

Would you either drag or shoulder carry them down through the pinestraw?

Would your boat be at the dock or over near the sea wall?

I don't think one person could have done this alone without leaving a bunch of evidence.
Click to expand...

Morning Hickory! :seeya:

I have continuously said all along that when more details are revealed my opinion will change and it has about some things. My opinions are always fluid and never etched in stone.

I believe she weighed 148 pounds though.

I am not a man of course but I have read countless stories where very small petite women have been able to drag a body out of a home and drag them much further than a short 50-60 feet when doing it. Those bodies were large men who were much larger than their female murderer yet they were perfectly capable of getting rid of the body so they could dispose of it in some manner.

If Shirley was rolled up in a tarp she would be very easy to drag on the grass.

I only weigh around 120 but for fun I have laid a tarp out on the grass and pulled two and three of our grandchildren around to give them a ride.:D It was quite easy actually and I pulled them way more than 50 feet all around our backyard. It would also depend on the strength of the suspect and the adrenaline flowing at the time. For all we know he may have rolled her up in a tarp and threw her over his shoulder.

So now that I do not believe Russ's body was ever moved or if so it was only slightly in the garage and that was the most weight he had to consider dealing with....the moving of Shirley's body to his boat wasn't all that hard.

I think he would park his boat in an area around the boat ramp that tucked his boat in where it would be least detected. Maybe parallel to the sea wall.

IMO
 
Treelights said:
I am wondering if whatever the person was there for to see Shirley and Russell or only Russell, would be in the garage.....and that is why the front door was unlocked, to let this person in, and then maybe Russell and this person went into the garage for whatever reason, like was Russell in the process of selling something that was in the garage? Or did Russell want to show this person something in the garage, or did this person ask Russell that he wanted to see something in Russell's garage, knowing where this all was going to take place. And if it is One person, then this does make sense about going after Shirley then coming back to the garage to remove the head before he disposed of Shirley's body.
IMOO.



ETA:
I want to ask does HOME mean the garage as well?
Click to expand...

BBM

I certainly believe it includes the garage area since that is a part of their home. It wasn't an unattached garage.

I think everyone includes their garage as part of their home if it is build with the home.

JMO
 
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