GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 6

[atthelake]

Sills has always said Mr D was killed somewhere else and that he was not beheaded on the property.
Ok lack of blood is a clue, but if he was dead then his heart wasn't beating anyway.
I wonder if gun shot residue on Mr.D's clothing coupled with the fact that none was found at the scene on any surfaces were part of the assertion.

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I've followed case since beginning...I don't recall him saying that he was not beheaded "on property". Just not where he was found in garage.

Do you or anyone have a link for such? ...as many, including myself, were thinking on property but not garage.

TIA

 

[bessie]

Skin tissue on a rock, brick, any rough surface, brushed against the garage opening while placing Mr. Dermond there. "IF" a knife was used, it's possible the perp cut themself and some blood was left behind.

IF the killer used the water hose, might have left something on the spigot or maybe they did find a murder weapon, and something from the perp was left behind on that.

Do the smaller boats like on the lake have anchors? If so, are they heavy? Smooth, or have any rough areas? Would a body be able to be held down with boat anchors? Well I mean obviously Mrs. Dermond didn't stay underwater, but I'm just wondering if she was weighted down, what was used?? In past cases I've heard of weighting down with rocks, cement blocks, can't remember what else, and it might work in some cases where the body is never found, but I've read many cases here where it didn't work.

Those are some good possibilities. Fingernails are often the source of tissue from a suspect, but not the only one. This killer wasn't averse to dismembering a victim. If Mr of Mrs. D scratched him, why didn't he remove the hands. That's assuming the tissue samples belong to the killer.

The article refers to "hundreds of fingerprints and hair and tissue samples". If the tissue samples belong to the perp, then do the fingerprints and hair samples, too? How do we know? And if so, doesn't that contradict the other facts we know about the crime? In other words, if the killer was as careful to cover his tracks as it seems, would he leave behind fingerprints?

Ach! Each question leads to ten more. Here's hoping for answers very soon!

 

[gngr~snap]

Greene County Sheriff Office.
There is/was a missing 76 yr old man yesterday posted at about 2:30pm. They could have been looking for him.
***** the one year anniversary of him going missing. .. duh.
THEY weren't looking for him.
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[atthelake]

A little off topic for a bit. About the tax deductible reward money. I guess if you take the deduction, you don't expect to get it back. And since most rewards aren't paid out, where does that money go?

Excellent question

 

[gngr~snap]

I've followed case since beginning...I don't recall him saying that he was not beheaded "on property". Just not where he was found in garage.

Do you or anyone have a link for such? ...as many, including myself, were thinking on property but not garage.

TIA

All I can find now.

"The Russell Dermond homicide crime scene (or at least the secondary crime scene, if the homicide and/or decapitation occurred elsewhere)...."


http://www.twcc.com/articles/2014/0...ile-psychiatrist-says-suspect-is-mentally-ill

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[gngr~snap]

ok. Final answer. Atlanta had some FUNKY WEATHER. I bet the choppers could see the skies and were gettin photos.
http://instagram.com/p/o4jtV0FSER/
http://www.hlntv.com/interactive/2014/06/06/atlanta-sky-storm-rainbow-lightning-pink-red-photos

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[atthelake]

All I can find now.

"The Russell Dermond homicide crime scene (or at least the secondary crime scene, if the homicide and/or decapitation occurred elsewhere)...."


http://www.twcc.com/articles/2014/0...ile-psychiatrist-says-suspect-is-mentally-ill

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Umm I will now brush my teeth to get the bad taste outta my mouth after reading that....and rinse my eyes out. I've been SUCCESSFULLY avoiding Nancy and HLN and the ilks of others as such.... until I just read this....

 

[gngr~snap]

Umm I will now brush my teeth to get the bad taste outta my mouth after reading that....and rinse my eyes out. I've been SUCCESSFULLY avoiding Nancy and HLN and the ilks of others as such.... until I just read this....

John an FBI profiler said this.
"John Douglas, one of the key FBI pioneers in the art and science of criminal profiling paints a very different picture about offenders who are mentally ill on his Mindhunters website compared to the Piedmont doctor"
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[Backwoods]

I'm glad you brought up the ME tomcat! I watched the video a kindly Websleuther posted the other day of the reporter interview with the gentleman (bless his heart). He sounded like he was in over his head a bit. Said he had never worked a beheading case before. Shouldn't a specialist be brought in, or at least someone who has dealt with a beheading before to double check things?

I think the man you saw interviewed was the Putnam County Coroner, and I don't believe he is a medical examiner. The autopsies of both Dermonds were done by a medical examiner at the GBI, I'm pretty sure.

 

[Backwoods]

spine, sorry, yeah not much but thats what the original article said

clearly I'm not a beheader but it did say clean cut and maybe a second to the bone

tomkat, I don't think that information was ever in MSM. (If I'm wrong, someone please correct me and post a link.)

The only time I remember hearing any report of what the beheading cut was like was from a new WS poster who gave info much as you've related and said it was from "unnamed sources" -- hence, only rumor, for us. IMO.

 

[al66pine]

A little off topic for a bit. About the tax deductible reward money. I guess if you take the deduction, you don't expect to get it back. And since most rewards aren't paid out, where does that money go?

Short answer
Contributions remain in same a/c, to be used for purposes specifically authorized by state statute or county ordinance for that a/c, imo, jmo, moo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Long answer
IIRC, sheriff's letter soliciting reward money asked the public to remit $$$ to a certain bank and account (presumably to sheriff a/c or county a/c).

If those contributions are not disbursed as a reward, would GA state statute, Putnam County ordinance, or other legal stricture re budget or appropriations require that those monies remain in that sheriff ac or county account?
Likely yes, imho, unless the law authorizes a 'refund' of such contributions, if a reward is not made.

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2nd issue, re deductibility.
IIRC sheriff's letter also stated that an accountant advised sheriff that these contributions would be tax deductible to the donor.

Per IRS website info, certain contributions may qualify as a charitable deduction (for federal income tax purposes).
"You may deduct charitable contributions of money or property made to qualified organizations if you itemize your deductions...."
"Qualified Organizations
"You may deduct a charitable contribution made to, or for the use of, any of the following organizations that otherwise are qualified under section 170(c) of the Internal Revenue Code:

1. A state or United States possession (or political subdivision thereof), or the United States or the District of Columbia, if made exclusively for public purposes;..."

http://www.irs.gov/Charities-&-Non-...tions/Charitable-Contribution-Deductions. BBM


Putnam County is a political subdivision of the state of GA.

Are such contributions made 'exclusively for public purposes'? IDK if a reward for providing info leading to an arrest and/or conviction is 'exclusively for public purposes.'

 

[Backwoods]

NOT about Lake Oconee or even Sinclair -- and probably pretty much off-topic for this thread -- but I thought this article was very interesting, especially since we have had so much talk about Georgia lakes in general on this thread:

Newly discovered maps reveal Ga. lake's history

Recently discovered maps are unlocking some of the mysteries of Lake Lanier.

The hand-drawn charts were created more than 60 years ago. They give a glimpse into long-gone communities submerged under the water's surface. ...

read more at: http://www.macon.com/2014/06/06/3135786/newly-discovered-maps-reveal-ga.html#wgt=rcntnews


Pretty fascinating, to me -- and sad, too, somehow, thinking about the lives lived on that land before the lake. All the landscape once so familiar to many vanished away...

Sure brought to mind a Stuart Woods book I really enjoyed a few years back. Some of you lake-dwellers who aren't already jumpy enough right now might like to try it for a thriller/chiller (touch of supernatural) summer read -- it's called Under The Lake.

 

[gngr~snap]

A happy reunion story from Lake Oconee. The babies got stuck in the sticks/mud /water. Lake Oconee has some good hearted folks!

Rescuers Save Newborn Fawns at Lake Oconee:


http://youtu.be/bo2cCUN759s
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[Advocate1]

Sounds like Sills is throwing out a few different words either to change his prior stories or to anger thr perps. IMO

Now the perps are hoodlums. Sills previous remarks of the perp most likely living in the GW neighborhood and now being called a hoodlum should point the person out in a minute. I doubt there is any one that fit this description in that neighborhood. Maybe an older son, still living at home, spoiled little rich boy, - in this case, many people know about him, have they spoken up?

Another statement Sills made is he has forensic of fingerprints, hair, fibers, and other things they can't talk about. My question to him is, but do any of these items belong to the murderer? The D's daughter and granddaughter had been there the week before for Easter so their DNA would be all mixed in the house too. I just question that if Sills has all this info from the perp, with the FBI abilities to analyze every thread down to the manufacturer, then their investigation ought to being getting them close to the perp.

Also, to be subpoenaing documents, LE is on at least one person's trail. JMO

The "hoodlums" remark by Sheriff Sills also caught my eye.

I have a ton of catching up to do on the thread now after catching up in the media.

I still can't shake my initial thoughts on this case.
I wanna see what everyone has been thinking this past week and what's changed opinions. For some reason I go back to a statement made by one of the sons. I may reading too much into the statement but it's always stood out to me. I feel the family knows a lot more then it appears and there was a "background period" to this crime.


In what seemed a plea to his father’s killer and his mother’s potential abductor, the son added, “Just tell us where she is. They didn’t deserve this. ... It’s not fair. ... They never hurt anybody.”

http://www.macon.com/2014/05/09/3089222/autopsy-sheds-little-light-on.html

 

[Advocate1]

I don't know if this has been linked or not but it needs to be on the new thread anyway. I was stunned that Sills confirmed two of my theories that I have had from the very beginning. LOL!

1. Killer used two different weapons.
2. Cutting Russ' head off was done for a diversionary tactic.

Posted: 7:15 p.m. Wednesday, June 4, 2014

Putnam County Sheriff Howard Sills told Winne that he has evidence indicating the killer used two different weapons during last month’s slayings. Sills says physical evidence points to a strong likelihood that the Dermonds died in different ways and that the killer, or killers, used a different kind of weapon to kill 88-year-old Russell Dermond than to kill 87-year-old Shirley Dermond.

“I don’t believe they were killed with the same weapon, no,” said Sills. “I won’t elaborate on what the murder weapons were.”

“This is a very difficult case, but that doesn’t mean we don’t have forensic evidence. We’re running down leads today,” said Sills. “We’ve got fingerprints, we’ve got hairs, we’ve got fibers, we’ve got all matter of forensic evidence that we’ve collected from the house.”

Sills said they’ve also collected several other items of significance to the case that he can’t talk about.

"What's in my heart is finding out who killed these people,” said Sills

Sills says he believes whoever killed the Dermonds left Russell Dermond’s headless body where it would be found, but never planned for Shirley Dermond’s remains to float to the surface of the lake and be discovered.

“I think it was a matter just to distract us, to concentrate our attention towards the whereabouts of Mrs. Dermond; whether we suspected her to be a suspect or we suspected that she had been abducted,” said Sills.


http://www.wsbtv.com/news/news/exclusive-sheriff-says-reynolds-plantation-couple-/ngDzD/

I think Sheriff is referring to Shirley's body and method of disposal and how he believes it was done in a way to distract the initial investigation.

Sheriff has already said he believes Russell was decapitated in an attempt to hide evidence. I also believe Sheriff may of let it slip that he believes Russell was shot.

Sills said that he believes Dermond was decapitated in an attempt to hide evidence.

"If I shot you in the head and the bullet is in your head, that's evidence," Sill said. "We can retrieve a bullet from a head and most times the lab can tell us within two to three manufactures who made that weapon."

http://www.11alive.com/story/news/l...onee-russell-dermond-shirley-dermond/9394325/

 

[Advocate1]

This is interesting, wonder how Sills would know that two different weapons were used, but also why would he disclose this ? I stand by my (humble) opinion that this is a mob/cartel hit and the killers will never be caught. Some of these other theories thrown out here are interesting to consider /read, but way beyond credible.

Mob/cartel hit doesn't make sense if they decapitated Mr D to hide evidence.
Hit man don't take a gun to kill someone that could trace back to them.
I think if it was a hit both bodies would of been in the house with gunshot wounds to the head.

It doesn't appear the killings were planned to me.
There is too much afterthought and effort after the crime to cover their (the killers) tracks IMO for this to be a planned double homicide.

 

[gngr~snap]

I think Sheriff is referring to Shirley's body and method of disposal and how he believes it was done in a way to distract the initial investigation.

Sheriff has already said he believes Russell was decapitated in an attempt to hide evidence. I also believe Sheriff may of let it slip that he believes Russell was shot.

Sills said that he believes Dermond was decapitated in an attempt to hide evidence.

"If I shot you in the head and the bullet is in your head, that's evidence," Sill said. "We can retrieve a bullet from a head and most times the lab can tell us within two to three manufactures who made that weapon."

http://www.11alive.com/story/news/l...onee-russell-dermond-shirley-dermond/9394325/

He isn't even telling the whole story! Ballistics go a "road a hoe further" - a hoe is a tool not a slang for a lady here. The metals used... etc. IMO a bullet is a gold mine. That is based on my research.

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[Advocate1]

Actually a lot of people are now questioning why the family is not contributing money for a reward. It's all over SMS.

Now I wonder if Sills set it up that way?

I think he has a little bit but nothing to make an arrest and actually nothing to point to anybody in particular.

I still wonder why he was so silent for those 8 days an is now once again giving daily bits and pieces of the investigation?

I don't know his style but he sure is different!

I hope he finds this killer. This is a really bad one!

I am wondering why the family has not contributed to the reward. What do you mean maybe the Sheriff "set it up that way" about the family donating to the reward?
The Sheriff has made it clear he feels the reward may be very helpful to the case and asked the public to donate to it.
Why wouldn't the family contributed to the reward?

 

[Advocate1]

I wonder if Mr. D gambled at all? Did they bet on the horses at the derby?

 

[Bethanthony]

It never occurred to me that the murder weapon could be something as simple as a brick. Something so compact and small...hard to get a good hold on without bashing one's own finger, I'd imagine.

All this time, I've been thinking about the beheading to remove bullets. It never entered my mind that maybe the murderer bashed his finger a bit in the process and once he calmed down, realized he was bleeding...right into an area where RD was already bleeding. Can't tell who's blood is who's...

Now that makes more sense to me...an unforeseen incident like that might call for an on-the-spot decision to remove RD's head.

It might also account for trace evidence of someone else's minute tissue sample...