GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 6

[atthelake]

i see them too, i dont recall discussion on this

I've got the originals that blew those margins and I'm not seeing where y'all are talking about. You have the parked white sherrif van there in the upper right...where do you see steps to the second floor? (again, not sure what this shows...just trying to help y'all if you need reposting of photos and a short period of blowing margins with a high quality photo :blushing

Lemme know if you wanna repost...or go to my profile and I think I put the originals in my albums

 

[tomkat]

Stairs were not on the tax records survey which I posted earlier today - (see photos that tlcya resized as thumbnails when I blew margins) .. I'm not saying that tax assessors are always correct! Just the layout on the assessors site that DID INDEED show a landing on the uppper floor but no stairs (outside the master?)

Yet..... in all my theories - that would be a moot point... are you thinking that IF there were stairs, the hoodlum(s) came into the house through the second floor?...but yet Mr. D ended up in garage and Mrs. in the lake.

Sorry, not seeing how this connects to a theory.

tax records usually show blocks and how the property is laid out, not necessarily doorways or stairs, if there is a landing, there is probably stairs, I was looking at a stairway plan similar to what I see at the D"s upper porch for my house, what I'm seeing on the D's back porch is a landing, it's where they attach the stairs, not sure why it'd be there if not for stairs,

F&E was probably thinking perps may have come up the back stairs

 

[tomkat]

I thought he said " we have great footage of the Dermond's dock but not the area in question" to me that sounded like two entirely different locations in the lake. I didn't think that he could have been referring to two different areas of the Dermond's dock. Hmmm. Somebody call him and ask what he meant by that!

referring to the neighbors dock (stated 'their' dock ) who provided the video and the Dermonds Dock/yard (the property in question)

Probably hoping to have captured SOMEONE on that video walking in the D's yard or on their dock or even their boat at the D's dock

The neighbors probably aren't videoing the neighbors dock, but their own

Detectives probably HOPED the scope was wide enought to view more than what they got; the neighbors dock from their own video surveillance camera

My thoughts anyway

 

[atthelake]

You are probably right Vedder. I have read so much, and watched so many videos now that some of it becomes a blur as to exactly what was said.

But don't you think he drug him a few feet and that is how Sills knew he had been moved a few feet? By the drag marks?

:moo::moo::moo:The ORIGINAL article that stated "drug a few feet" is in this article http://www.11alive.com/story/news/local/2014/05/06/putnam-county-possible-abduction/8785443/ and the accompanying video doesn't have the quote in it. Just the article itself uses these words.

IMHO, ALL THE OTHER references (the lakeside paper, the patch papers, the other forums that folks are linking) are all merely requoting the 11 alive original article.

Just for clarification as others stating where is rumor/original/msms coming from on different stuff we discuss.

HTH

 

[tomkat]

View attachment 44201


This them?

Looking at what looks like stairs and FandE pointed out, and then around the right side of the house, that leads to the garage, gotta look at where the front door is

What if the garage was open and perp went in garage snooping or stealing, Mr D, checked it out, argument ensued, RD was going to call the police if they didnt' leave, perps hit him in head,


Mrs D had heard Mr D say something about people outside, in a few minutes, she looked out in the garage, saw the crime in action, ran, being trapped inside, wanting to get outside, no help out at the lakeside and so ran out the front door, then hoping to escape to street or neighbors

they grabbed her and went around back with her

or maybe RD Came out the front door to look or talk to perps in his yard, left front door unlocked, garage was still up, perps and RD ended up in garage,

Either way may have been too early and had not set it alarm yet either

Can't figure out when beheading would have occurred

ok was garage door closed did we determine? when neighbor went over?

Or they may have both approached someone in their yard, unknown and fight

 

[tomkat]

:moo::moo::moo:The ORIGINAL article that stated "drug a few feet" is in this article http://www.11alive.com/story/news/local/2014/05/06/putnam-county-possible-abduction/8785443/ and the accompanying video doesn't have the quote in it. Just the article itself uses these words.

IMHO, ALL THE OTHER references (the lakeside paper, the patch papers, the other forums that folks are linking) are all merely requoting the 11 alive original article.

Just for clarification as others stating where is rumor/original/msms coming from on different stuff we discuss.

HTH

only 20 minutes to 3 hours for livor mortis to set in

wonder what factors speed it up or slow it down? Wasn't cold or really hot during that time, low 80's maybe, pretty decent temp


or by the pooled blood, if he'd lain there and the blood had settled (livor mortis) and then he was found on his opposite side or twisted, the pooled blood would indicate if he'd been moved
come to think of it, if that was the case, that would mean the perps HAD come back or WAITED and possiby beheaded him IN THE GARAGE, maybe used tarps, but would explain why not much blood in garage

MY GOSH if the two time poster was right about voices being heard Saturday, heck, they may have come back saturday after finished early in the A.M. darkness dumping SD and 2 perps were in a frenzy and talking about how or what to do, IDK, maybe what neighbors heard if that was true

Sills siad they had fibers and hairs, no tarp was found in the lake, don't know abuot at the house, but like someone just posted, probably rolled her off the boat from out of the tarp

if they can find that tarp, even if washed, you can match the fibers and hopefully see blood stains with luminol???? IDK

 

[Treelights]

:moo::moo::moo:The ORIGINAL article that stated "drug a few feet" is in this article http://www.11alive.com/story/news/local/2014/05/06/putnam-county-possible-abduction/8785443/ and the accompanying video doesn't have the quote in it. Just the article itself uses these words.

IMHO, ALL THE OTHER references (the lakeside paper, the patch papers, the other forums that folks are linking) are all merely requoting the 11 alive original article.

Just for clarification as others stating where is rumor/original/msms coming from on different stuff we discuss.

HTH

Are you saying they changed the Original article in the link?
I am not reading "drug a few feet" in this article........ IMOO.
This is what I read from your link:
http://www.11alive.com/story/news/local/2014/05/06/putnam-county-possible-abduction/8785443/

"He had been moved a few feet and his head had been removed."

" "The body was moved, and I just don't think an 87-year-old lady can do it," Sills said. "

 

[Nana46]

I am beginning to be ashamed to live in Tennessee,lol....twitter is reporting a guy around Nashville,Tn, murdered a woman, beheaded her and removed more parts of her body and then..............ate some of the body parts.

My God what evil times we are living in.:tantrum:

 

[atthelake]

Hi there Cana!

I think he said his torso was dragged a few feet or maybe he said only a short distance.

I don't really know but in my mind I thought he meant dragged a little ways when it was already inside the garage as if he needed to drag him only a short distance so that his torso may have been hidden behind one of their cars or something like that. Of course we have no clue where the drag marks are located in the garage and only Sills and the investigators know that.

Just guessing though.

IMO

Or dragged a few feet into the garage from right outside the garage...(either originally from the concrete driveway or the vacant lot next door as seen upthread from the county property record)....and closed the door so folks couldn't see if they were to drive up the driveway.

Yep, they remembered to close the garage door..(that is an assumption upon seeing the layout today of the garage)...??but in their haste - they FORGOT to lock the front door or could NOT if they didn't have a key to the door and was deadbolt only?

Hmmmm, after midnight thinking here... the front door was left unlocked. WHY NOT LOCK IT on their way out! Wonder if the backdoor(s) and/or all other exterior doors were locked.

 

[Foxfire]

Although Putnam County and specifically RP/GW is generally a very safe place to live. Lake Oconee is conveniently located within an hours drive of four GA cities with very high violent crime rates, frequent home invasions, and violent gang activity.

After reading this article update about a horrific TN murder, decapitation, and subsequent cannibalizing of the innocent victim. I am reminded that a horrific unspeakable murder can happen to anyone, anywhere, at anytime..

After reading the article and the suspects very graphic FB page, the writing had been on the wall for some time, and the Devil was definitely in the details...Neighbors said that he was a just a regular guy..

http://www.thunder1320.com/news/upd...-parental-guidance-encouraged-before-reading/

A Tennessee man has confessed to killing a woman, dismembering her and then ... Gregory Scott Hale has been charged with murder and abuse of a corpse... He also "admitted to eating part of the victim after murdering her," the warrants said.

FB Page(warning very graphic)> https://www.facebook.com/skottie.hale?fref=browse_search

 

[Treelights]

" You can’t help wondering if it was cult-related or something like that,” Keith Dermond said. “Or maybe even a case of mistaken identity.” "
" Dermond said he believes his parents might have been targeted because of their location inside the exclusive community — on a cul de sac, with no next door neighbor. "

http://chronicle.augusta.com/news/c...n-mystery-security-camera-wasnt-son-tells-ajc

 

[tomkat]

Or dragged a few feet into the garage from right outside the garage...(either originally from the concrete driveway or the vacant lot next door as seen upthread from the county property record)....and closed the door so folks couldn't see if they were to drive up the driveway.

Yep, they remembered to close the garage door..(that is an assumption upon seeing the layout today of the garage)...??but in their haste - they FORGOT to lock the front door or could NOT if they didn't have a key to the door and was deadbolt only?

Hmmmm, after midnight thinking here... the front door was left unlocked. WHY NOT LOCK IT on their way out! Wonder if the backdoor(s) and/or all other exterior doors were locked.

Yeah I don't think it was ever stated if the other doors were locked or not

Thinking they closed they garage while they were in there do their "thing", wouldnt' want someone pulling in the driveway while all THAT was going on, much less the YARD, maybe then exited the front door, hiding inside until they were sure no one else was there

why not go out back tho, SD must've exited that door and they ran after her possibly

Seems too much going on tho for no one to have heard anything like screaming (not been reported if so)

seems they would have just surprised them both, there were no wounds on either, were there?

Either RD exited the front door upon seeing strangers or an acquaintence neighbor or she did, looking for him

We live off the road a bit, dogs bark like crazy, I always go see who is outside if we dont' know them and I'll go be nosy if my spouse has stepped out there, call it cautious now

SO maybe the same occurred sort of like that, except it got ugly

 

[tomkat]

" You can’t help wondering if it was cult-related or something like that,” Keith Dermond said. “Or maybe even a case of mistaken identity.” "
" Dermond said he believes his parents might have been targeted because of their location inside the exclusive community — on a cul de sac, with no next door neighbor. "

http://chronicle.augusta.com/news/c...n-mystery-security-camera-wasnt-son-tells-ajc

Sills (SWEARS) he's ruled out CULT and MAFIA ( or cartel was it) and a professional hit?

but if some of it looks pro yet another thing discounts that, how do you know WHAT OR WHO it was

DOES HE (SON) know something no one else does?

I dont' know who tho, just wondering how it all played out

 

[tomkat]

Although Putnam County and specifically RP/GW is generally a very safe place to live. Lake Oconee is conveniently located within an hours drive of four GA cities with very high violent crime rates, frequent home invasions, and violent gang activity.

After reading this article update about a horrific TN murder, decapitation, and subsequent cannibalizing of the innocent victim. I am reminded that a horrific unspeakable murder can happen to anyone, anywhere, at anytime..

After reading the article and the suspects very graphic FB page, the writing had been on the wall for some time, and the Devil was definitely in the details...Neighbors said that he was a just a regular guy..

http://www.thunder1320.com/news/upd...-parental-guidance-encouraged-before-reading/

A Tennessee man has confessed to killing a woman, dismembering her and then ... Gregory Scott Hale has been charged with murder and abuse of a corpse... He also "admitted to eating part of the victim after murdering her," the warrants said.

FB Page(warning very graphic)> https://www.facebook.com/skottie.hale?fref=browse_search

I think I"ll move to switzerland, aren't they the ones that impede such large and stiff fines, I think their $1000 speeding tickets or such, might make someone obey the law

ANd every citizen is required to carry a gun??

 

[LuckyCat]

Sills (SWEARS) he's ruled out CULT and MAFIA ( or cartel was it) and a professional hit?

but if some of it looks pro yet another thing discounts that, how do you know WHAT OR WHO it was

DOES HE (SON) know something no one else does?

I dont' know who tho, just wondering how it all played out

I truly believe the son was making a flip comment about the cult possibility that was, unfortunately, quoted and re-quoted so many times that it's taken on false significance. That interview with the son was so early on in the investigation that I don't think he knew much of anything more than anyone else. JMHO.

 

[Backwoods]

"When they didn't show friends gave it a couple of days and on Tuesday morning at 10 a.m. they went to the house and discovered Russell Dermond's body in the garage, WMAZ reports. He had been moved a few feet and his head had been removed. Shirley Dermond was nowhere to be found."

http://dunwoody.patch.com/groups/tr...g-in-crime-mystery-that-has-attracted-the-fbi

Sent from my SM-P607T using Tapatalk

What I'm "remembering" from early on is Sills stating that one reason he thought it unlikely that Shirley was a POI in Russell's death was, among other things, that Russell had been moved. I think a reporter asked "how far was he moved" and Sills answered something like "well, at least a few feet" or "at least several feet" -- almost as if it was not at all sure how far the body had been moved.

Looked for the link to the coverage I think I'm remembering but haven't found it yet.

It seems to me like this info morphed in MSM coverage over a little time into "he was moved a few feet" -- very definite kind of thing, but I'm not so sure it is THAT definite.

 

[Backwoods]

There are so many aspects to this case that I just do not know what to think about, but -- I am more and more "liking" the idea I posted the other night about a possible reason for the decapitation: That is, that Russell was injured/wounded -- I do not have a firm belief about by what means -- in the head, perhaps dying or dead already, but the perp/s were not CERTAIN he was dead. Planning to leave his body on site, the perp/s decapitated him to make SURE he was dead.

I tend to think no gun was used, except maybe as a threat. I don't think shots were fired.

 

[Vedder]

You are probably right Vedder. I have read so much, and watched so many videos now that some of it becomes a blur as to exactly what was said.

But don't you think he drug him a few feet and that is how Sills knew he had been moved a few feet? By the drag marks?

Most likely, yes.

 

[Bethanthony]

Hi all,

Sorry for all the early morning posts...with kids home for the summer, it seems like it's the only time I have to think clearly! I've been able to catch up each night reading everyone's comments though.

A couple of things that occur to me after reading all of our comments over the past few days

I keep forgetting that Sills specifically said the Dermonds "opened their door to them", meaning, most likely, it was the front door. Living with the location of their home, given its seclusion and the empty lot on one side and its abutment to the lake, I can't imagine a knock on the back door wouldn't solicit a fearful reaction. But because of the dock evidence and the Winnie video, we have all been talking about the crime beginning and ending in the backyard. I really think it must have begun around the front of the house, as Sills tells us they literally opened their door. He also suggested at one point that he wasn't ruling out the perpetrators using both a boat and a car/van/truck.

We've also talked a great deal about the Winnie video and the hydraulic lift mechanism on the Dermond's dock. After watching the uncut version of that video, I find it significantly odd that it shows not only the police boat still up and in storage, but also the WINCH and cables that lower it into the water. Honestly, that's a strange shot to waste valuable news time showing...it makes me wonder if Sills specifically chose Winnie for the interview because he trusts him, and he can ask him to shoot certain things that are a message to the killer(s), knowing Winnie will do as he is asked, keep quiet, and not reveal those details to mainstream media?

My last thought reading all the posts last night was about SD's body in the lake. When asked if she was weighted down, Sills specifically said he was NOT going to answer questions that could jeopardize their investigation. IMO, that means there are details that exist. If she wasn't weighted down or tied, he would have just said no when asked. As an example, Sills readily provided details of SD's attire when asked. However, when asked about RD, he refused to say. And I know it's rumor, but it is interesting that very early on, someone suggested he was in pajamas. To me, whether or not that is true, there are details that are not being discussed. And where there is a 'no discussion' point made by Sills, there are most certainly interesting details we wish we knew...

 

[Litig8ter]

I truly believe the son was making a flip comment about the cult possibility that was, unfortunately, quoted and re-quoted so many times that it's taken on false significance. That interview with the son was so early on in the investigation that I don't think he knew much of anything more than anyone else. JMHO.

Keep in mind that the "quote" about the cult first appeared in a British tabloid. Is it possible that the tabloid journalist, in hopes of getting something sensational said something to the son like "Sounds so horrible, almost like a cult." and the son replies something like "gosh, that could be"?

Tabloid journalists don't get the highest marks for accuracy, and this may be a situation where we sleuths may need to question the accuracy of this "MSM" tabloid.