GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 7

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OTPTarheel said:
Are there restaurants in Greensboro/ Eatonton/ GW where a valet/ Parker could have found registration card in glove box? Mr. D handed over all house/ car keys to the valet, who took a house key or had it copied? I had to explain this to my father- no registration card in car and valet only gets car key. My father had his address and phone number on key chain!!! Wonder if the Ds did?

Could the Ds have left a car to be repaired at a shop and someone made a copy of a car or house key?

Did any RP/ GW residents report cars stolen just before Derby weekend?

Just some thoughts...
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Only valet parking I know is the Ritz Carlton

Don't remember any cars stolen in years, if ever.
 
Abelia said:
Hi, my first post here, so I'm a little nervous. For the sake of argument, assume that SD's body was not moved by a jon boat, but instead by one of the more expensive boats that many residents in GW must own. To what extent would that person later go to clean their boat? Are there detailing shops around Lake Oconne that specialize in boats? Would LE have checked in with them to see who brought boats in shortly after the murders? I know nothing about boats, certainly had no idea that the owners would tow them to a detailing shop. But on May 13th I was stopped at a light in a run-down section of a town (about 1 hr south of Putnam Co.) and saw a very expensive looking boat on a trailer at an auto detailing shop. A man who obviously did not belong in that neighborhood was talking to the owner. NO, I'm not suggesting this was the murderer as towing a boat out of GW for over an hour and back in again would obviously arouse suspicion. Just expressing surprise that people have their boats detailed. If a GW resident was the murderer, would they likely have done the same with their own boat? Of course after first hosing off any obvious blood themselves. And would detailing shops be something LE would have looked at? Okay, sorry for such a wordy first post.
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Hi Abelia,

:welcome6:

I haven't been around here nearly as long as some, but I'm not new either, and I still get a little nervous about posting!

Good thought on the detailing!
 
oceanblueeyes said:
There is always that 'but' isn't there?:floorlaugh:

Thanks for the thought provoking post.

So lets see if I can use OR when applying what I believe happened in this case.:)

First, I will say right up front... so everyone can save this post to remind me how wrong I was IF any of the Dermond children are involved in the murder of their parents in any manner. I have always stood by my opinions especially when it came to some family members in this same situation as the children in this case find themselves in, and I will continue to stand by this family.

I have picked up nothing from Sills that even causes me to be suspicious of the children. I also know that this is a victim friendly site and that includes any and all family members of murder victims especially those who have never been named POI much less suspects. So I am aware that my post reply may get deleted by the MODS. Or maybe not since I have never accused them of any wrongdoing.:D

In fact I have picked up the opposite from him. He has mentioned several times that he contacts them on a daily basis and he also has said they have all been very cooperative and answers any questions quickly that he may have. Sounds like a family with nothing to hide, imo.

The very manner in which these murders were carried out is totally counterproductive of family members murdering someone for their own financial gain. Family members don't have hit men cut heads off either for there is no need. And estates the size of the Dermonds don't happen quickly. Even my own father's estate took four years to finalize and even though he wasn't a poor man by a long shot he did not have the wealth/assets the Dermonds had amassed.

A hit man doesn't need proof of death by taking the head. The dead bodies of the victim(s) is all the proof he needs. There is no better proof than that.

"Someone wanted the estate settled because of a looming transaction." Quote
So your last sentence is something I have long excluded using Occam's Razor to come to the most logical conclusion. Not one thing untoward has been said about any of the Dermond children in 7 weeks......not one thing and I don't expect to hear anything either.

But to address this part of your post using Occam's Razor:

- the beheading?
- why haul SD up the lake? Quote

It is very simple to me why he carried out the murders and aftermath the way he did. I agree with Sills on this one and I am sure all of the 40 FBI agents, and the other 7 sheriffs departments are in agreement as well.

He did this to create a diversion hoping LE would become sidetracked thinking Russ' murder had been done by a hired hit man who had also abducted Shirley. And the hit theory has worked for some of the public at large but Sills has the evidence and he says this was 'no hit.' I agree.

Anytime someone tries to hide body evidence and goes to such risks to do so they know they can be linked back to the victims in some familiar way even if casually. Anyone that does not have any connection to the victims on a familiar basis whatsoever even casually wouldn't care nor have the need to do so because they have no relationship with the victim.

By applying Occam's Razor this part of your post below just doesn't mesh imo:

"SD was hauled away to confuse the investigation but hidden in a way to predict she would eventually be found. Quote

Once a body has been thrown in a very deep lake and held prisoner by the environment there is no assurances ever that the body will be found at all. In fact a lot of bodies who are thrown in water are never recovered. Even bodies of accidental drowning victims have never been recovered and eye witness saw where the accident happened. So what you have posted about this particular subject is not an logical conclusion, imo, but a very complex and an illogical theory which is totally opposite of OR. It is one filled with too many variables and 'what ifs' and 'maybes.'

She WAS hidden away in the very deep water. She was terribly decomposed when found 11 days later and it's totally consistent that she was put there shortly after being abducted/killed, imo.. No one goes to all this trouble and risks of being caught in order to hide someone and then expect them to surface. If that was his intentions he would have left Shirley above ground close by in a wooded area somewhere or even at the home with her husband's torso.

Never once have I ever read in over thirty years where a murderer disposed of a victim in water expecting them to rise. Never, but if you can find me such case where it has happened before, I will certainly take it into consideration. Until then.. respectfully... that is not an Occam Razor conclusion at all but very farfetched.

So none of the things you have listed are complex to me.

Thanks for posting this.

IMO
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<BBM for Focus>

Ocean, maybe this is what Sheriff Sills was referring too when he stated that some portions of this crime indicates a professional, while others indicate an amateur...mixed offender, imo...

Gary Ridgeway; green river serial killer, disposed of victims in water expecting them to rise, and be located...

Websleuths - Gary Ridgeway
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65576&page=2
 
:welcome6: Abelia to posting on this thread. It takes courage to jump in and I appreciate your willingness to make contributions. We have opinions that sometimes differ, but try to respect each other.

This case is at the point where no new information is forthcoming. Many have strong opinions on what they think happened. We all want the truth to come and for the D's to have justice. Welcome.

On the cleaning of a boat, there are many options including hose at home, spray washer at home, drive under DIY car washes, etc. A boat could be detailed - if the owner can afford and say the boat had been in a bad storm, been sitting up for months or years, or the like. All these methods could remove evidence if used with a cleaner with bleach.

The situation you described that you observed could have been something as simple as a detailer that say replaces seat covers or carpet in boats/cars as a side job to the business. My guess is that while detailing is done to boats it is not the norm and may not have been the reason behind the situation you observed. I am just giving my opinion.

Keep on posting now and give your ideas..... are you local to the area/lake?
 
Don't know how to use all the smiley faces, but welcome to Abelia. I know how you feel. Everyone on this site is respectful and I am so glad I found people who like to share their thoughts about this. None of my friends/family care about this, just shrug it off to the usual craziness in this world, but it bothers me to no end. I have often wondered how these people are formed, were they born without a conscience? Anyway, I can see how you would wonder about the boat detailing. Did your hair stand up on the back of your neck? Anything is possible. Everyone here is open-minded. Again, welcome!
 
Starry Night said:
What kind of perps spend more time killing than stealing or robbing?

Break THAT down first.
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ones who the victims of the burglary may recognize and who have way more to lose than your average "hoodlum"

or

ones who are not there to rob but for some greater criminal purpose and have way more to lose than your average hoodlum
 
So this is what we know so far:

Who- don't know
What- murders and dismemberment
Where- don't know
Why- don't know
When- don't know
How- don't know

I sure hope police and FBI have more of these answers!
 
Happyshoes said:
Don't know how to use all the smiley faces, but welcome to Abelia. I know how you feel. Everyone on this site is respectful and I am so glad I found people who like to share their thoughts about this. None of my friends/family care about this, just shrug it off to the usual craziness in this world, but it bothers me to no end. I have often wondered how these people are formed, were they born without a conscience? Anyway, I can see how you would wonder about the boat detailing. Did your hair stand up on the back of your neck? Anything is possible. Everyone here is open-minded. Again, welcome!
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This is link for smilies. http://www.websleuths.com/forums/misc.php?do=getsmilies&editorid=vB_Editor_001 HTH :seeya:
 
It ran across my mind so I'm asking. Do we have anyone here posting that was in attendance at the group meeting held by Sills and LE very early on in the investigation. Anyone that heard what was said (including what rumors were refuted). If so, is there anything subsequent to that meeting that has since changed in the official reports?
 
mck16 said:
I didn't follow the trial, but I went back and read about it before I made my post. Laci could have been wrapped in a blanket or a tarp which made it easier to do what he did.

I think Ms.D would struggle based on what we know about her. She had a zest for life and I think she would fight for it. I just think it more logical to me that she was already dead and her body was put in the boat.

I don't think the perp was thinking about anything sane and certainly not plotting a hit man scenario. But, I am basing that on personal feelings and not any evidence of it. I just hope we do some day find out what really did happen.:please: BTW, I do love reading your theories. jmo
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I too went back and read a bit about Laci because she was mentioned previously. Since Scott never confessed or told how it happened we have no idea if Laci was indeed pushed off of that small boat he owned. She was in it..yes from the hair sample.

There are many 'could haves' to the Peterson murder and how she was put into the water.

I think most of us will agree it would be near impossible to do all that has been suggested from a small tippy boat.
 
Abelia said:
Hi, my first post here, so I'm a little nervous. For the sake of argument, assume that SD's body was not moved by a jon boat, but instead by one of the more expensive boats that many residents in GW must own. To what extent would that person later go to clean their boat? Are there detailing shops around Lake Oconne that specialize in boats? Would LE have checked in with them to see who brought boats in shortly after the murders? I know nothing about boats, certainly had no idea that the owners would tow them to a detailing shop. But on May 13th I was stopped at a light in a run-down section of a town (about 1 hr south of Putnam Co.) and saw a very expensive looking boat on a trailer at an auto detailing shop. A man who obviously did not belong in that neighborhood was talking to the owner. NO, I'm not suggesting this was the murderer as towing a boat out of GW for over an hour and back in again would obviously arouse suspicion. Just expressing surprise that people have their boats detailed. If a GW resident was the murderer, would they likely have done the same with their own boat? Of course after first hosing off any obvious blood themselves. And would detailing shops be something LE would have looked at? Okay, sorry for such a wordy first post.
Click to expand...

:welcome4: :wagon:
 
:welcome: Abelia! Interesting question. I, like you, know not much about boats, but it would stand to reason that people with means detail their cars so why not their boats?
 
Abelia said:
Hi, my first post here, so I'm a little nervous. For the sake of argument, assume that SD's body was not moved by a jon boat, but instead by one of the more expensive boats that many residents in GW must own. To what extent would that person later go to clean their boat? Are there detailing shops around Lake Oconne that specialize in boats? Would LE have checked in with them to see who brought boats in shortly after the murders? I know nothing about boats, certainly had no idea that the owners would tow them to a detailing shop. But on May 13th I was stopped at a light in a run-down section of a town (about 1 hr south of Putnam Co.) and saw a very expensive looking boat on a trailer at an auto detailing shop. A man who obviously did not belong in that neighborhood was talking to the owner. NO, I'm not suggesting this was the murderer as towing a boat out of GW for over an hour and back in again would obviously arouse suspicion. Just expressing surprise that people have their boats detailed. If a GW resident was the murderer, would they likely have done the same with their own boat? Of course after first hosing off any obvious blood themselves. And would detailing shops be something LE would have looked at? Okay, sorry for such a wordy first post.
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Welcome to WS and what a thought provoking first post and what you saw could be the puzzle piece that is missing.

I hope you reported this to the Sheriff.

I mean that would/could make sooo much sense. Strange none of us have thought of that...detailing.

And taking a big, fancy boat loaded with blood stains an hour and a half away would be the way to go. Taking it to a run down place of business folks there would be glad for any work and probably would not ask too many questions.

I think if it happened like that the boat would have already been hosed down and not much would be left. Also thinking tarps could have been spread so there was no blood or fluids and the boat could be cleaned for any evidence at all that might have been left on the boat. Thinking a hair.

And btw where I live people tow boats of all sizes all the time and nobody thinks anything of it. People are trading in boats or selling boats or transporting new boats. We see huge boats on the highway all the time and pay no attention at all.

How observant you are!
 
Nuvolari said:
Reference: http://www.msgr.com/news/local_news/article_780fad32-e12c-11e3-911e-001a4bcf887a.html

And this seemed unusual to me:

"(Unnamed), who said she played newcomers’ bridge with Shirley when she first moved to the Lake Country, had been driving Shirley to Tuesday club gatherings at The Plaza for some time.

She said she wondered about the crime-scene tape when she drove down Carolyn Drive to the Dermonds’ home at the end of the cul-de-sac May 6.

When she couldn’t pull into the driveway, (Unnamed) said she waited “quite awhile” – then, she said, a detective came to ask her about it.

“I explained about bridge, I said, ‘I’ll have to go on or I’ll be late,’” (Unnamed) said last week. “Then I found out about 9 o’clock that Shirley was missing,” she said, shaking her head."

Arrives at a close friend's house, sees crime scene tape, talks to a detective, goes on to the club and plays, returns home and hears the story late that night? Does this say something about the closeness of this relationship and possibly about the typical relationship the Dermonds may have had with neighbors?
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OMG, so worried about the game and not her friend??!!!

I kept trying to point out that the D's were probably friendly with many but not close, wow, this proves it, or atleast about that person

MY GOD I would be trying to find out what the heck happened and why crime tape was all around the house !!!!

I am JUST STUNNED! :facepalm:
 
I was out working in the garden this weekend while drinking beer and swatting mosquito's and I got into a conversation about this particular case with my live-in girlfriend of 6 years. She isn't a member of Websleuths, and she really doesn't know too much about it, but she knows I follow certain crimes and mysteries on here and she thinks it is an interesting hobby as long as there isn't any flirting and hanky panky going on that might actually result in a criminal act being performed on me.

All that said, I was the one that told her about the Dermonds and the crime in general, along with many of the details made public by the sheriff and the media.
My question to her was what her take on it would be. I will refer to her as MT, which are the initials of her first and last name to avoid a bunch of typing.

She thought it would be a good idea to look into the possibility of a copycat killing which was perpetrated by someone with a fascination over a movie or a movie series. MT seems to think that this could be a single individual or a couple or even a boyfriend and girlfriend team. A lot of teenagers and younger people become totally infatuated with something they see happen in a movie to the point it actually becomes part of their being. MT was wondering if there was a movie out there somewhere that mimics EXACTLY the crime that was perpetrated on the Dermonds. She didn't mean some of the details, she means ALL of the details....to a T. She is of the opinion that the person or persons that committed this crime were probably known to the Dermonds to the point of a friendly wave or a "how are ya' doing?". She doesn't think this is about robbery or trying to get a lot of money, although that would have been a nice bonus. The Dermonds were pretty elderly and fragile, so they would make easy targets. MT is of the opinion that this was a crime committed solely to "see if we can get away with it": just like the killer got away with it in their favorite slasher movie or psycho killer series.

I pressed her a little further and she used as an example the couple that gunned down the two cops in Nevada recently, and then went into the Walmart across the street and kept shooting up innocents. MT's theory was that their favorite move was probably Natural Born Killers and that they had probably watched it hundreds of times to the point of knowing every line in the movie. So, when they get ready to go out and act like Mickey and Mallory, they essentially mimicked everything in that movie with the exception that they went to a Walmart instead of a pharmacy, like in the movie. They gun down cops, they desecrate them with a rebel flag, they randomly shoot people unknown to them, and they have a firefight with the cops. Natural Born Killers--part 2


So, if her theory is true, and someone was actually mimicking something they saw in a movie, how could they be caught ?? MT's idea was that first the movie would need to be found. Same plot, same details. bad guy gets away with it. After that movie is located, a concentrated effort would need to be made through the media that anyone that knows of a teenager, young adult, married couple, or a loner who was fascinated with that movie and that crime to the point of letting it engulf their existence, should be singled out for further review. This wouldn't be someone who watched this flick 5 times. this would be someone who watched it 500 times and tried to dress and act just like the people in the movie, or talked like them, etc. Parents, grandparents, school friends, co-workers, one or all may recognize not only the movie in question but the person that is infatuated with it.

Although this theory on the surface seems somewhat crazy, what about this case has made any sense so far ?? Could it actually be so mundane as a person(s) acting out something that they were infatuated with , to commit the perfect crime? The goal was to literally re-create something they have seen and wanted to try?


Anybody out there that has ever watched a horror flick, slasher flick, serial killer movie that may have this exact plot, please post the name of it here. If you have teenagers around the house, ask them if they have ever seen a movie or a movie series with this plot. I don't normally watch the blood and gore type stuff, but I know there is a whole lot of people out there that do. MT's theory was that the killer(s) would have followed the plot in the movie down to the exact details, includings boats, machetes, and beheadings. The purpose behind this of course would be to avoid getting caught and to perplex the cops and terrorize the public.

MT had an interesting take on it, although she doesn't follow Websleuths or read many of the posts in here too often. This idea, or a version of it. may have already been posted in here. Way too many threads in here for me to go back and avoid duplication though.

If anything can be done in here to help generate ideas and possible theories, it seems like it might be a very good idea. I think the cops are running out of both leads and tips. Maybe something like this slasher flick idea will help to jog somebodies memory.
 
Happyshoes said:
I agree with OceanBlueEyes - they didn't want her body found. I find this the most baffling part. Why not just leave her there? That's why I said before that I think just MAYBE he (or they) may have started out thinking they would put them in garbage bags and take them off the property? Just a possibility and thinking out loud. Lord, please do not let these fiends get away!
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I sure hope they don't get away with this, Happy. That would just be so heartbreaking but about 35% of homicides do go unsolved.:( I just hope this case isn't one of them.

Even Sills says he thinks this was an attempted robbery. Quote:
Sills said his educated suspicion is that at least one of the killers at the house knew the Dermonds-- not especially well-- and showed up to steal something the Dermonds did not have or could not get.

It sounds like they may have come for cash since some older people are known to carry a lot of cash on them but the Dermonds did not carry any cash. Also they may have thought they had a safe, and that may be what he is referring to when he said 'steal something the Dermonds did not have.'

It also makes me wonder if they did go through the house but instead of them looking they made Russ and Shirley pullout all the drawers and open closets instead to prove to them they didn't have any money or valuables in the home. That way the killer or killers wouldn't have to touch anything inside the home where their fingerprints would be left behind.

And by then they would know that at least one of them had been recognized by Shirley or Russ or both. They may have even told the one they knew that they knew who he was and where he lived.

IMO
 
stmarysmead said:
The party was most likely Club sponsored. I think if it had been a private party and they said they were coming, and did not show up...I think that they would have been checked on sooner. At a Club event, people make and break reservations all the time. Someone might say...."I thought so-and-so was coming" and then it's forgotten.

Considering their age, this couple had their activities, an active church life, but they may have been private people, content with each other's company. Apparently there was no one that they checked in with every day...not even their children.

It looks to me like several of the homes on that cul-de-sac are for sale. Some are on the main lake and could well be vacant. There is a huge home near them up for sale. If the motive was robbery, these houses seem like less of a risk and one would be less suspicious out in open water...then sitting in a narrow cove, watching a house.

I just don't think this was randoml
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I agree, saturday and sunday, people may have just thought they were visiting their family at home or out of state especially if they were really private people

Also, most people are of the attitude that things don't happen to them, so imagine they NEEVER expected BOTH of them to die or get sick at the same time, much less something like this, people just dont' think things happen I guess, esp there maybe
 
tomkat said:
OMG, so worried about the game and not her friend??!!!

I kept trying to point out that the D's were probably friendly with many but not close, wow, this proves it, or atleast about that person

MY GOD I would be trying to find out what the heck happened and why crime tape was all around the house !!!!

I am JUST STUNNED! :facepalm:
Click to expand...

That is strange that she would just go on to her bridge game. Maybe to tell all the ladies what she had seen and what was going on at Shirley's. jmo
 
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