GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 7

[Cardinal47]

OMG, so worried about the game and not her friend??!!!

I kept trying to point out that the D's were probably friendly with many but not close, wow, this proves it, or atleast about that person

MY GOD I would be trying to find out what the heck happened and why crime tape was all around the house !!!!

I am JUST STUNNED! :facepalm:

I am kind of surprised but just wanted to say. I am quite sure she never in a million years thought anything bad had happened to the Dermonds.

Sometimes yellow tape is put around a home when a sewer line is being worked on or even if a tree it being pruned or removed.

Having played bridge with lots of older ladies being on time for a game is their top priority.

Duplicate Bridge is a game like no other and rules and courtesy are considered good manners. Something most bridge players master.

I can see it and I am not going to judge her too harshly. I think if she had of had any idea what really happened behind that yellow tape she would not have been able to drive anywhere!

MOO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I too went back and read a bit about Laci because she was mentioned previously. Since Scott never confessed or told how it happened we have no idea if Laci was indeed pushed off of that small boat he owned. She was in it..yes from the hair sample.

There are many 'could haves' to the Peterson murder and how she was put into the water.

I think most of us will agree it would be near impossible to do all that has been suggested from a small tippy boat.

I am not sure what you mean on 'how' she was put into the water. It was proven by Laci's hair being wrapped around his pliers that were found laying in the bottom of the boat that she had been in the boat and that he threw her overboard from his Jon boat. That is why he drove 85 miles from where they lived with the boat in tow. He was seen out on the bay pretending to be fishing that day but instead he was throwing his wife's body overboard That is why it took her four months to make it back to shore after a storm had churned up the bottom of the bay.

They showed the Jon boat which was actually a key piece of evidence to the jury who gave him the death penalty.

The thing that was never learned was.... if she was dead or alive at the time when he threw her overboard in the waters of the SF bay.

IMO

 

[Rhyolite]

Here we are a month later and no closer to a conclusion.

In fact Websleuthers have been revisiting all the assumptions and beliefs they held in this case. Some stuff turned out to be bogus, etc.

The question is about motive, None of this holds any water without motive.

What do we really know about the complete career of RD (or SD) other than they owned some restaurants, he worked for Westclox, was in the military. Where did this information come from? Was it from the Obit?

Is this career history completely accurate? Is something missing? Was he in law enforcement? Intelligence? What did he do at Westclox? Was he in security? R&D?

Could there be something else that dovetailed with his military experience?

 

[tomkat]

tomkat,

I've read on the Sinclair FB page that a couple people near the dam have heard a very loud boat with NO lights in the middle of the night and another? boat shining a bright spotlight around the properties. We aren't anywhere near there but I have been keeping all outside flood lights on around the house. I guess I will start turning on all the dock lights too. Hate having to because of all the bugs. Ugh!

WOW, OKAY that is WEIRD, no lights is just plain dangerous and that would be a red flag to this case. Shining is suspicious near property or in the middle of the lake esp since this case

LAST NIGHT, I saw the same thing, I think people shine lights when fishing but my friend with me agreed, it looked like they were shining properties but water too, I couldnt' be sure

ANyway, they made their way down by the island along the shore where houses are, across river from me, I turned OFF my dock lights as they looked like they might come our way and so they wouldn't come fishing at my dock while we sat there at 11 pm (see below) and they continued on, other side of river from me, all the while shining lights, they turned around as if they were leaving and went back the way they came, SUDDENLY, I thought they'd missed the river turn, and the boat litterally flipped around and it came back to a point not far from there, where they had previously been, continued shining along the shore, I dont' night fish but that was VERY unusual behavior, debating whether to call it in but I have no description of boat or people !! It was dark and I couldnt' see and not sure WHAT this would have to do with the D's case, but save a future family maybe, it was almost as if they were looking for something.

anyway, had 2 people come up in a fishing boat the night before not 2 feet from my face and dock, and we were sitting on the dock at 1 am, some people dont' think I guess, they were in my space, haha, daylight I wouldn't have been bothered, middle of the night, too weird

I keep outside lights on but not dock lights at night too

 

[OTPTarheel]

OMG, so worried about the game and not her friend??!!!

I kept trying to point out that the D's were probably friendly with many but not close, wow, this proves it, or atleast about that person

MY GOD I would be trying to find out what the heck happened and why crime tape was all around the house !!!!

I am JUST STUNNED! :facepalm:

Maybe the lady was in shock. Confused as to what was going on and the only thing she could think to do was go to the bridge club. She was most
likely on "automatic".
I have been there. At 11:47 pm in July 2011 our doorbell rang. I had fallen asleep downstairs on the sofa. I realized it wasn't on tv, went up and opened the door to 2 men in blue uniforms. My sleepy brain did not recognize them as policemen. They asked for my husband,informed us a family member was dead and gave me a piece of paper to call the detective/ME in a distant state. It took all of 45 seconds.I ran down the sidewalk to ask them again what they said as my brain could not believe what they said,and I wrote it down as my adrenaline kicked in. I then drank 2 Coca- colas and started making calls. I was on automatic for a year.

We all react differently.

 

[tomkat]

EXACTLY MY SENTIMENTS , CAPS stressing my strong agreement

Here we are a month later and no closer to a conclusion.

In fact Websleuthers have been revisiting all the assumptions and beliefs they held in this case. Some stuff turned out to be bogus, etc.

The question is about motive, None of this holds any water without motive.

What do we really know about the complete career of RD (or SD) other than they owned some restaurants, he worked for Westclox, was in the military. Where did this information come from? Was it from the Obit?

Is this career history completely accurate? Is something missing? Was he in law enforcement? Intelligence? What did he do at Westclox? Was he in security? R&D?

Could there be something else that dovetailed with his military experience?

 

[tlcya]

If you knew or had been told LE was going to tell you nothing about what was going on and bridge was going to start and you were curious to see if anyone else at the gathering knew anything . . .

ETA I am casting no aspersions. I can see ME doing this. Just saying . . .

 

[tomkat]

True, my reaction would have certainly been different

Thanks

Maybe the lady was in shock. Confused as to what was going on and the only thing she could think to do was go to the bridge club. She was most
likely on "automatic".
I have been there. At 11:47 pm in July 2011 our doorbell rang. I had fallen asleep downstairs on the sofa. I realized it wasn't on tv, went up and opened the door to 2 men in blue uniforms. My sleepy brain did not recognize them as policemen. They asked for my husband,informed us a family member was dead and gave me a piece of paper to call the detective/ME in a distant state. It took all of 45 seconds.I ran down the sidewalk to ask them again what they said as my brain could not believe what they said,and I wrote it down as my adrenaline kicked in. I then drank 2 Coca- colas started making calls. I was on automatic for a year.

We all react differently.

 

[Foxfire]

I was out working in the garden this weekend while drinking beer and swatting mosquito's and I got into a conversation about this particular case with my live-in girlfriend of 6 years. She isn't a member of Websleuths, and she really doesn't know too much about it, but she knows I follow certain crimes and mysteries on here and she thinks it is an interesting hobby as long as there isn't any flirting and hanky panky going on that might actually result in a criminal act being performed on me.

All that said, I was the one that told her about the Dermonds and the crime in general, along with many of the details made public by the sheriff and the media.
My question to her was what her take on it would be. I will refer to her as MT, which are the initials of her first and last name to avoid a bunch of typing.

She thought it would be a good idea to look into the possibility of a copycat killing which was perpetrated by someone with a fascination over a movie or a movie series. MT seems to think that this could be a single individual or a couple or even a boyfriend and girlfriend team. A lot of teenagers and younger people become totally infatuated with something they see happen in a movie to the point it actually becomes part of their being. MT was wondering if there was a movie out there somewhere that mimics EXACTLY the crime that was perpetrated on the Dermonds.

<Respectfully Snipped & BBM for Focus>

Steelman, maybe you should persuade MT to join Websleuths....

 

[Cardinal47]

For some reason I am thinking of the Petit family murders.

Thinking of movies with the plot the poster asked about made me think of them.

I wonder if there were two and one of them drove either Shirley or Russell to the bank to get money??? Could it be they drove Russell and while they were gone the second did in fact rape Shirley and that is why she was taken into the water to remove evidence as another poster suggested?

The one that went to the bank with Russel could have been so angry he beat him so bad it did snap his neck and the rest is history. Hummm

Could that be what Sills is talking about...something they could not get?

The problem with all of our speculation is that we don't know hardly anything that Sheriff Sills knows. So we wander in many directions.

Hopefully with our wanderings somebody will come up with something that is something LE didn't think about and provide a clue to who did this dreadful killing of two nice elderly folks.

I am of the opinion LE does read these pages and posts. MOO

 

[mck16]

WOW, OKAY that is WEIRD, no lights is just plain dangerous and that would be a red flag to this case. Shining is suspicious near property or in the middle of the lake esp since this case

LAST NIGHT, I saw the same thing, I think people shine lights when fishing but my friend with me agreed, it looked like they were shining properties but water too, I couldnt' be sure

ANyway, they made their way down by the island along the shore where houses are, across river from me, I turned OFF my dock lights as they looked like they might come our way and so they wouldn't come fishing at my dock while we sat there at 11 pm (see below) and they continued on, other side of river from me, all the while shining lights, they turned around as if they were leaving and went back the way they came, SUDDENLY, I thought they'd missed the river turn, and the boat litterally flipped around and it came back to a point not far from there, where they had previously been, continued shining along the shore, I dont' night fish but that was VERY unusual behavior, debating whether to call it in but I have no description of boat or people !! It was dark and I couldnt' see and not sure WHAT this would have to do with the D's case, but save a future family maybe, it was almost as if they were looking for something.

anyway, had 2 people come up in a fishing boat the night before not 2 feet from my face and dock, and we were sitting on the dock at 1 am, some people dont' think I guess, they were in my space, haha, daylight I wouldn't have been bothered, middle of the night, too weird

I keep outside lights on but not dock lights at night too

Do you think it could be patrol checking out the waters? Since they were shining lights toward houses. ty

 

[tomkat]

That is strange that she would just go on to her bridge game. Maybe to tell all the ladies what she had seen and what was going on at Shirley's. jmo

Maybe so, I'm just too nosey, lol, crime scene tape is never a good thing IMO

But I was stunned at her reaction, mine wouldve been TOTALLY different

we may not have the whole story like in this case

 

[tomkat]

I too went back and read a bit about Laci because she was mentioned previously. Since Scott never confessed or told how it happened we have no idea if Laci was indeed pushed off of that small boat he owned. She was in it..yes from the hair sample.

There are many 'could haves' to the Peterson murder and how she was put into the water.

I think most of us will agree it would be near impossible to do all that has been suggested from a small tippy boat.

flat bottom boats are much different than v hull, like canoes, I dont' think they'd tip THAT easily JMO, canoes and kayaks, yes

 

[Rhyolite]

Trivia:

From Wikipedia:

From 1942 to 1945, Westclox ceased all production intended for domestic civilian sale and dedicated its production resources to the war effort, becoming a major manufacturer of fuses for military ordnance.

 

[atthelake]

O/T
I get people confused, who I spoke to on what cases...
Did you follow Andrea Schneiderman?

If so, did you see this?
( anyone else that followed her case she's out!)

http://m.wsbtv.com/news/news/local/andrea-sneiderman-released-prison/ngLzy/

If not, ignore me.
This makes me angry.
Poor Rusty.



All posts are my opinion only. Sent via Tapatalk

I would never ignore you !

Yes, I attended hearings and followed daily and she now lives two miles from me. :banghead: I saw your notice thanks !


ETA : Caylee was first case here at WS ..anniversary today of her death and her candle lighting thread is still active.
Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Here we are a month later and no closer to a conclusion.

In fact Websleuthers have been revisiting all the assumptions and beliefs they held in this case. Some stuff turned out to be bogus, etc.

The question is about motive, None of this holds any water without motive.

What do we really know about the complete career of RD (or SD) other than they owned some restaurants, he worked for Westclox, was in the military. Where did this information come from? Was it from the Obit?

Is this career history completely accurate? Is something missing? Was he in law enforcement? Intelligence? What did he do at Westclox? Was he in security? R&D?

Could there be something else that dovetailed with his military experience?

I take Sills at his word on this issue. One of the first thing they do in any investigation is check out the complete background history of the victims. I think he even went to Atlanta and talked to the ones that knew him best when he was in business there for 20 years. For Sills to be insistent this is not a hit, I don't think he found one skeleton in their closet.

That is what makes this even more tragic if possible. Here these people had always lived a moral life. Went to church, loved their kids, worked hard for what they had, paid their taxes, and enjoyed life.

This is not about anything that Shirley and Russ ever did against someone else. I think they were fine people who had a lot of friends. Imo, it is about someone who would rather murder two old people rather than have their pathetic life exposed to everyone.

I think he served four years in the Navy back in the 50s, iirc

 

[tomkat]

I was out working in the garden this weekend while drinking beer and swatting mosquito's and I got into a conversation about this particular case with my live-in girlfriend of 6 years. She isn't a member of Websleuths, and she really doesn't know too much about it, but she knows I follow certain crimes and mysteries on here and she thinks it is an interesting hobby as long as there isn't any flirting and hanky panky going on that might actually result in a criminal act being performed on me.

All that said, I was the one that told her about the Dermonds and the crime in general, along with many of the details made public by the sheriff and the media.
My question to her was what her take on it would be. I will refer to her as MT, which are the initials of her first and last name to avoid a bunch of typing.

She thought it would be a good idea to look into the possibility of a copycat killing which was perpetrated by someone with a fascination over a movie or a movie series. MT seems to think that this could be a single individual or a couple or even a boyfriend and girlfriend team. A lot of teenagers and younger people become totally infatuated with something they see happen in a movie to the point it actually becomes part of their being. MT was wondering if there was a movie out there somewhere that mimics EXACTLY the crime that was perpetrated on the Dermonds. She didn't mean some of the details, she means ALL of the details....to a T. She is of the opinion that the person or persons that committed this crime were probably known to the Dermonds to the point of a friendly wave or a "how are ya' doing?". She doesn't think this is about robbery or trying to get a lot of money, although that would have been a nice bonus. The Dermonds were pretty elderly and fragile, so they would make easy targets. MT is of the opinion that this was a crime committed solely to "see if we can get away with it": just like the killer got away with it in their favorite slasher movie or psycho killer series.

I pressed her a little further and she used as an example the couple that gunned down the two cops in Nevada recently, and then went into the Walmart across the street and kept shooting up innocents. MT's theory was that their favorite move was probably Natural Born Killers and that they had probably watched it hundreds of times to the point of knowing every line in the movie. So, when they get ready to go out and act like Mickey and Mallory, they essentially mimicked everything in that movie with the exception that they went to a Walmart instead of a pharmacy, like in the movie. They gun down cops, they desecrate them with a rebel flag, they randomly shoot people unknown to them, and they have a firefight with the cops. Natural Born Killers--part 2


So, if her theory is true, and someone was actually mimicking something they saw in a movie, how could they be caught ?? MT's idea was that first the movie would need to be found. Same plot, same details. bad guy gets away with it. After that movie is located, a concentrated effort would need to be made through the media that anyone that knows of a teenager, young adult, married couple, or a loner who was fascinated with that movie and that crime to the point of letting it engulf their existence, should be singled out for further review. This wouldn't be someone who watched this flick 5 times. this would be someone who watched it 500 times and tried to dress and act just like the people in the movie, or talked like them, etc. Parents, grandparents, school friends, co-workers, one or all may recognize not only the movie in question but the person that is infatuated with it.

Although this theory on the surface seems somewhat crazy, what about this case has made any sense so far ?? Could it actually be so mundane as a person(s) acting out something that they were infatuated with , to commit the perfect crime? The goal was to literally re-create something they have seen and wanted to try?


Anybody out there that has ever watched a horror flick, slasher flick, serial killer movie that may have this exact plot, please post the name of it here. If you have teenagers around the house, ask them if they have ever seen a movie or a movie series with this plot. I don't normally watch the blood and gore type stuff, but I know there is a whole lot of people out there that do. MT's theory was that the killer(s) would have followed the plot in the movie down to the exact details, includings boats, machetes, and beheadings. The purpose behind this of course would be to avoid getting caught and to perplex the cops and terrorize the public.

MT had an interesting take on it, although she doesn't follow Websleuths or read many of the posts in here too often. This idea, or a version of it. may have already been posted in here. Way too many threads in here for me to go back and avoid duplication though.

If anything can be done in here to help generate ideas and possible theories, it seems like it might be a very good idea. I think the cops are running out of both leads and tips. Maybe something like this slasher flick idea will help to jog somebodies memory.

WOW, and maybe she should be a sleuther ! This makes sense too, I dnot' watch gorey movies, but I'll keep it in mind and think on it,

like you said, this case is running out of steam

 

[Rhyolite]

Do you think it could be patrol checking out the waters? Since they were shining lights toward houses. ty

DNR counts alligators at night, by the reflection of their eyes to a spotlight, count eyes and divide by two. Yes, this is true. Check GA DNR webpages. But then we know there are no alligators in the waters that far north, so it must be something else entirely.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

For some reason I am thinking of the Petit family murders.

Thinking of movies with the plot the poster asked about made me think of them.

I wonder if there were two and one of them drove either Shirley or Russell to the bank to get money??? Could it be they drove Russell and while they were gone the second did in fact rape Shirley and that is why she was taken into the water to remove evidence as another poster suggested?

The one that went to the bank with Russel could have been so angry he beat him so bad it did snap his neck and the rest is history. Hummm

Could that be what Sills is talking about...something they could not get?

The problem with all of our speculation is that we don't know hardly anything that Sheriff Sills knows. So we wander in many directions.

Hopefully with our wanderings somebody will come up with something that is something LE didn't think about and provide a clue to who did this dreadful killing of two nice elderly folks.

I am of the opinion LE does read these pages and posts. MOO

Yes, like the Petit Murders.
Or the Husted Murders.
Or the Billings Murders and there are others..........

The only difference in those cases and this one is I think one of the armed robbers knew the Dermonds in someway.

IMO

 

[Cardinal47]

I just wanted to show you an reenactment of a boat like Scott Petersons. In the video which is down the page just a bit you will see a man attempting to throw a body out of a tippy boat.

http://www.scottpetersonappeal.org/scotts-boat.html

"Also, Detective Hendee testified in court that he wanted to attempt a reenactment of a weighted body being dumped out of the boat, but neither the police nor prosecution ever tried. The video below is the unsuccessful reenactment attempted by Scott's defense. The judge did not allow the jury to see it".

The reason I brought this over is due to the discussion we continue to have about weather a body can be thrown from a small boat.

It's also an interesting video.