GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 7

[mck16]

Like so many others who post, I think this was not a hit but some insane over-reaction to something Mr. D said or did. He obviously was the target. Sometimes it's very difficult for sane persons to conceive of how a mentally disturbed individual views the world. Mr. D was a well-educated business man who was probably no nonsense with his speech and actions. An unstable and insecure man could react violently to either of those.

I agree with this post especially the sentence I bolded. It was someone who had no respect for an older man and even less respect for an elder with authority. He was caught and he knew of no other way to get out. jmo

 

[mck16]

Do you remember in the Scott Peterson case where the DA brought the little Jon boat to the courthouse parking lot for the jurors to see? And even today no one really knows if Laci was thrown in the water alive and drowned. There was never any evidence found in their home of any kind. The ME only had a partial skeleton of her upper torso and the marine life had eaten away all of her internal organs. And Laci had a huge belly which made her even harder to throw overboard yet he sure did exactly that.

Why do you think she would be able to struggle if she was bound and gagged if I may ask Mic? He could have even bound her ankles once he got her on to the boat. Imo she was a terrified very elderly woman of 88 years old. She would be no match for this man and imo she knew it. I think she was frozen with fear just like others who did not fight their perpetrator either and instead went with them as they demanded and they were murdered.

I don't think Shirley volunteered to do anything........not one thing. I think she was forced by a man who she knew had just murdered her husband. She knew more than anyone what he was capable of doing. I think Shirley thought the only hope she had was not to struggle or fight a man.. who would only get angrier if she did, but she hoped at some point she could reason with him to let her go.

So many abducted victims that have lived to tell their story said they did hope they would be able to reason with the suspect and that is why they didn't try to fight or get away and sometimes it worked but most of the time it doesn't.

I think he wanted the police to believe a hit man had come to their home and murdered Russ and the hit man had abducted Shirley. I think it does show he knows them, and they knew him. He tried to stage it to look like a hit from an unknown hit man with no familiar connection whatsoever to the victims.

IMO

I didn't follow the trial, but I went back and read about it before I made my post. Laci could have been wrapped in a blanket or a tarp which made it easier to do what he did.

I think Ms.D would struggle based on what we know about her. She had a zest for life and I think she would fight for it. I just think it more logical to me that she was already dead and her body was put in the boat.

I don't think the perp was thinking about anything sane and certainly not plotting a hit man scenario. But, I am basing that on personal feelings and not any evidence of it. I just hope we do some day find out what really did happen.lease: BTW, I do love reading your theories. jmo

 

[jggordo]

Does anyone think the D's may have had "home healthcare" ? There are services for seniors that actually are set up by Doctors and paid for by Medicare. They come in and help with cleaning, prescription delivery and many things. If so there would be no checks written directly to a cleaning company per se. It's free for seniors and they make sure bathrooms are germ free etc and bring their own cleaning germicides and such.

JMO's

 

[mck16]

Does anyone think the D's may have had "home healthcare" ? There are services for seniors that actually are set up by Doctors and paid for by Medicare. They come in and help with cleaning, prescription delivery and many things. If so there would be no checks written directly to a cleaning company per se. It's free for seniors and they make sure bathrooms are germ free etc and bring their own cleaning germicides and such.

JMO's

I don't think so. These services are usually for after surgery or illness care. Maybe after Mr.D's knee surgery. I don't think either one of them had any visible prolonged illness. I haven't seen any reported. jmo

 

[lakeoconee]

Does anyone think the D's may have had "home healthcare" ? There are services for seniors that actually are set up by Doctors and paid for by Medicare. They come in and help with cleaning, prescription delivery and many things. If so there would be no checks written directly to a cleaning company per se. It's free for seniors and they make sure bathrooms are germ free etc and bring their own cleaning germicides and such.

JMO's

I repeat myself, but the Dermond's were alleged to have cleaning help, although the media reports say they didn't. Their kids may not even known.

This is neighborhood talk.

 

[Happyshoes]

I would hope that all workers, landscapers, etc. had to sign in, and also that they have been checked out.

 

[lakeoconee]

Many, if not most, people posting here think that the murders were not planned, but result of a confrontation of some kind. Whichever one was murdered first or why, the murderer decided both would die. I think he would have killed Shirley immediately in the heat of the moment. We're not totally sure he came by boat. Possibly.

I think the Dermond murderer was focused on saving his a$$. Pure reaction.
He'd kill her first and worry about getting rid of her later.

I appreciate how much thinking you put into this, we just continue to see this detail(?) differently.

JMO

 

[lakeoconee]

I would hope that all workers, landscapers, etc. had to sign in, and also that they have been checked out.

Just read this statistic: There are 10,000 vehicles registered with Reynolds; i.e. have stickers.

 

[mck16]

Just read this statistic: There are 10,000 vehicles registered with Reynolds; i.e. have stickers.

I own a condo that is a gated community. Entry is by electronic card or opener. All my kids have a card and I have two. So, anyone could have a sticker I would think. What requirements are there to get a sticker? ty

 

[OTPTarheel]

Are there restaurants in Greensboro/ Eatonton/ GW where a valet/ Parker could have found registration card in glove box? Mr. D handed over all house/ car keys to the valet, who took a house key or had it copied? I had to explain this to my father- no registration card in car and valet only gets car key. My father had his address and phone number on key chain!!! Wonder if the Ds did?

Could the Ds have left a car to be repaired at a shop and someone made a copy of a car or house key?

Did any RP/ GW residents report cars stolen just before Derby weekend?

Just some thoughts...

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Many, if not most, people posting here think that the murders were not planned, but result of a confrontation of some kind. Whichever one was murdered first or why, the murderer decided both would die. I think he would have killed Shirley immediately in the heat of the moment. We're not totally sure he came by boat. Possibly.

I think the Dermond murderer was focused on saving his a$$. Pure reaction.
He'd kill her first and worry about getting rid of her later.

I appreciate how much thinking you put into this, we just continue to see this detail(?) differently.

JMO

And I certainly appreciate how you always reply to my posts in such a civil manner.

We are certainly on the same page in a lot of areas.

I do not and never have believed the murder was planned. Well not the first one anyway but of course the second victim's murder was totally premeditated.

I also believe it all started due to a personal confrontation between the killer and the Dermonds. They both may have been having the confrontation (heated verbal exchange) with him at the time.

I don't believe that Russ was targeted either or even Shirley. Both of them were eliminated for reasons known only to the killer. Since I do not believe this was planned, I think these murders happened just like you think, and he did this in a panic because he trying to cover his own a&& about something.

Of course the only thing we don't agree on is that Shirley was murdered first. I think he took out who he thought could be the biggest threat to him first, and that was Russ. Imo he let Shirley believe he was only going to kidnap her, and may have told her he was going to take her with him. Maybe she felt at the time his intentions was to hold her hostage for some reason such as hold her for ransom or he told her that and she believed him.

You are right.... we don't know if he came to the GW property by boat. We only can rely on what Sills has told the public and last week he said he is no longer convinced he arrived by boat but still is sure that he did leave by boat when he took Shirley out on the lake.

IMO

 

[Columbo's ghost]

Let's consider her theory about RD catching someone in the act of stealing, and her suspicion that the killer lives nearby, maybe within the "gate".

That would explain a few key points:
- the Dermonds knew the killer
- the killer knew the Dermond routine
- the killer was familiar with the home, community and lake

It does not explain:
- the beheading?
- why haul SD up the lake?

By Occam's Razor her theory would make sense except for those last two.

RD was beheaded either for proof of death, or evidence destruction, or intimidation.

SD was hauled away to confuse the investigation but hidden in a way to predict she would eventually be found.

Someone wanted the estate settled because of a looming transaction.

 

[Suthrnqt]

Let's consider her theory about RD catching someone in the act of stealing, and her suspicion that the killer lives nearby, maybe within the "gate".

That would explain a few key points:
- the Dermonds knew the killer
- the killer knew the Dermond routine
- the killer was familiar with the home, community and lake

It does not explain:
- the beheading?
- why haul SD up the lake?

By Occam's Razor her theory would make sense except for those last two.

RD was beheaded either for proof of death, or evidence destruction, or intimidation.

SD was hauled away to confuse the investigation but hidden in a way to predict she would eventually be found.

Someone wanted the estate settled because of a looming transaction.

BBM

I think Mr. D's head was taken to conceal evidence. I believe whatever weapon/tool was used for the BFT, it left a distinctive mark. Something that could be identified and connected to the . This is jmo. I also believe Shirley was taken to cause confusion in regards to the investigation. Remember at first, everyone thought she had been kidnapped. I am still not certain if the perp(s) planned on Shirley surfacing, but by the grace of God, she did.

 

[Starry Night]

What kind of perps spend more time killing than stealing or robbing?

Break THAT down first.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Let's consider her theory about RD catching someone in the act of stealing, and her suspicion that the killer lives nearby, maybe within the "gate".

That would explain a few key points:
- the Dermonds knew the killer
- the killer knew the Dermond routine
- the killer was familiar with the home, community and lake

It does not explain:
- the beheading?
- why haul SD up the lake?

By Occam's Razor her theory would make sense except for those last two.

RD was beheaded either for proof of death, or evidence destruction, or intimidation.

SD was hauled away to confuse the investigation but hidden in a way to predict she would eventually be found.

Someone wanted the estate settled because of a looming transaction.

There is always that 'but' isn't there?:floorlaugh:

Thanks for the thought provoking post.

So lets see if I can use OR when applying what I believe happened in this case.

First, I will say right up front... so everyone can save this post to remind me how wrong I was IF any of the Dermond children are involved in the murder of their parents in any manner. I have always stood by my opinions especially when it came to some family members in this same situation as the children in this case find themselves in, and I will continue to stand by this family.

I have picked up nothing from Sills that even causes me to be suspicious of the children. I also know that this is a victim friendly site and that includes any and all family members of murder victims especially those who have never been named POI much less suspects. So I am aware that my post reply may get deleted by the MODS. Or maybe not since I have never accused them of any wrongdoing.

In fact I have picked up the opposite from him. He has mentioned several times that he contacts them on a daily basis and he also has said they have all been very cooperative and answers any questions quickly that he may have. Sounds like a family with nothing to hide, imo.

The very manner in which these murders were carried out is totally counterproductive of family members murdering someone for their own financial gain. Family members don't have hit men cut heads off either for there is no need. And estates the size of the Dermonds don't happen quickly. Even my own father's estate took four years to finalize and even though he wasn't a poor man by a long shot he did not have the wealth/assets the Dermonds had amassed.

A hit man doesn't need proof of death by taking the head. The dead bodies of the victim(s) is all the proof he needs. There is no better proof than that.

"Someone wanted the estate settled because of a looming transaction." Quote
So your last sentence is something I have long excluded using Occam's Razor to come to the most logical conclusion. Not one thing untoward has been said about any of the Dermond children in 7 weeks......not one thing and I don't expect to hear anything either.

But to address this part of your post using Occam's Razor:

- the beheading?
- why haul SD up the lake? Quote

It is very simple to me why he carried out the murders and aftermath the way he did. I agree with Sills on this one and I am sure all of the 40 FBI agents, and the other 7 sheriffs departments are in agreement as well.

He did this to create a diversion hoping LE would become sidetracked thinking Russ' murder had been done by a hired hit man who had also abducted Shirley. And the hit theory has worked for some of the public at large but Sills has the evidence and he says this was 'no hit.' I agree.

Anytime someone tries to hide body evidence and goes to such risks to do so they know they can be linked back to the victims in some familiar way even if casually. Anyone that does not have any connection to the victims on a familiar basis whatsoever even casually wouldn't care nor have the need to do so because they have no relationship with the victim.

By applying Occam's Razor this part of your post below just doesn't mesh imo:

"SD was hauled away to confuse the investigation but hidden in a way to predict she would eventually be found. Quote

Once a body has been thrown in a very deep lake and held prisoner by the environment there is no assurances ever that the body will be found at all. In fact a lot of bodies who are thrown in water are never recovered. Even bodies of accidental drowning victims have never been recovered and eye witness saw where the accident happened. So what you have posted about this particular subject is not an logical conclusion, imo, but a very complex and an illogical theory which is totally opposite of OR. It is one filled with too many variables and 'what ifs' and 'maybes.'

She WAS hidden away in the very deep water. She was terribly decomposed when found 11 days later and it's totally consistent that she was put there shortly after being abducted/killed, imo.. No one goes to all this trouble and risks of being caught in order to hide someone and then expect them to surface. If that was his intentions he would have left Shirley above ground close by in a wooded area somewhere or even at the home with her husband's torso.

Never once have I ever read in over thirty years where a murderer disposed of a victim in water expecting them to rise. Never, but if you can find me such case where it has happened before, I will certainly take it into consideration. Until then.. respectfully... that is not an Occam Razor conclusion at all but very farfetched.

So none of the things you have listed are complex to me.

Thanks for posting this.

IMO

 

[Happyshoes]

I agree with OceanBlueEyes - they didn't want her body found. I find this the most baffling part. Why not just leave her there? That's why I said before that I think just MAYBE he (or they) may have started out thinking they would put them in garbage bags and take them off the property? Just a possibility and thinking out loud. Lord, please do not let these fiends get away!

 

[Happyshoes]

Another note: I'm surprised somebody this fiendish could think of putting her in the lake to throw off LE. It worked b/c they were treating it like an abduction for the first 10-11 days. I also agree with Sills, it was an act of God that she was found. Changes everything....still, gave him/them too much of a head start. I believe, too, that they came and left by boat. Too bad we don't have a car and tag # to look for!

 

[Hickory Born]

What kind of perps spend more time killing than stealing or robbing?

Break THAT down first.

Mentally ill perps.

 

[Abelia]

Hi, my first post here, so I'm a little nervous. For the sake of argument, assume that SD's body was not moved by a jon boat, but instead by one of the more expensive boats that many residents in GW must own. To what extent would that person later go to clean their boat? Are there detailing shops around Lake Oconne that specialize in boats? Would LE have checked in with them to see who brought boats in shortly after the murders? I know nothing about boats, certainly had no idea that the owners would tow them to a detailing shop. But on May 13th I was stopped at a light in a run-down section of a town (about 1 hr south of Putnam Co.) and saw a very expensive looking boat on a trailer at an auto detailing shop. A man who obviously did not belong in that neighborhood was talking to the owner. NO, I'm not suggesting this was the murderer as towing a boat out of GW for over an hour and back in again would obviously arouse suspicion. Just expressing surprise that people have their boats detailed. If a GW resident was the murderer, would they likely have done the same with their own boat? Of course after first hosing off any obvious blood themselves. And would detailing shops be something LE would have looked at? Okay, sorry for such a wordy first post.

 

[lakeoconee]

I own a condo that is a gated community. Entry is by electronic card or opener. All my kids have a card and I have two. So, anyone could have a sticker I would think. What requirements are there to get a sticker? ty

Be a resident or property owner
Get a contractor permit I think this $100 or more for each vehicle
Be an employee

There may be other categories