GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 7

[loveboxerkisses]

I don't think it is a dumb idea at all MotherOcean. In fact this killer or killers could have drug habits themselves or sell drugs........not hard core drug dealers but more like small time.

The elderly ARE being targeted because the robbers/home invaders think older people will have prescription narcotics in their home. Even if the thieves themselves don't use they are aware how prescription narcotics brings big bucks on the street.

So I definitely think they could have come there for cash or even a safe but they would also take any narcotics they found in the home. But sometimes the elderly doesn't have that kind or prescription meds.

I read an article recently and it said robbers are now hitting homes looking for drugs and are now leaving behind electronics and other bulky items they have to take with them. They can get as much or more for the drugs and all they have to do is carry small bottles out of the home in their pockets.

Oh, when Sills said he couldn't be sure that anything was missing that was in the latest interview. I think FoxFire put the link up earlier.

IMO

oceanblueeyes, you are so correct people (addicts) love those pain pills, I never understood how they make me feel terrible when I had 7 teeth pulled to get braces & 3 were wisdom teeth I told the dentist don't bother giving me the rx for the pain meds I wouldn't take them, but had a relative ask me that knew I didn't take pain meds if I had the rx I could get refilled! I was like what?? he said I can sell them for probably $10 a piece! Of course I said NO but he told me that's how he made a living ( he didn't work) selling pain pills and xanax ( he was injured at work and had a workers comp Dr giving him rx after rx) anyways the Dr was reported by someone and it stopped well at least from that Dr I was just so disgusted by the whole thing. So maybe someone thought Mrs Dermond had pain pills there because of her knee surgery? I may have read but not sure how long ago it was or if that was even mentioned? As always I love reading your opinion oceanblueeyes, as I do everyones, but it's like when I am talking to my mom and then she'll give me advice or a different perspective and I'm like oh ok that makes sense!

 

[tomkat]

FBI: Dermond Murders Were Personal
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2014/05/23/dermond-murder-mysterybeheading-georgia-lake-oconee
May 23, 2014

FBI Now Part of The Investigation (40 FBI Agents & BAU2 involved)

* Crime appears to be personal; Vendetta
* No signs of forced entry

Morning Ocean... Putnam County Sheriff Sills and the ms media sure have been silent as of late... Although SS would likely be the primary target of retribution by the NC, the entire Justice system, and the Putnam County community that sent their prophet; DY, to federal super max for over a century, and brought down their lawless empire would also be secondary targets, imo.

Why would 40 FBI Special Agents & the FBI BAU2 be involved in a double homicide investigation in rural America? This is an anomaly, imo.. Not the norm...deja vu...

Interesting closing, so what IS normal investigation of something of this magnitude?

TIA

 

[oceanblueeyes]

FBI: Dermond Murders Were Personal
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2014/05/23/dermond-murder-mysterybeheading-georgia-lake-oconee
May 23, 2014

FBI Now Part of The Investigation (40 FBI Agents & BAU2 involved)

* Crime appears to be personal; Vendetta
* No signs of forced entry

Morning Ocean... Putnam County Sheriff Sills and the ms media sure have been silent as of late... Although SS would likely be the primary target of retribution by the NC, the entire Justice system, and the Putnam County community that sent their prophet; DY, to federal super max for over a century, and brought down their lawless empire would also be secondary targets, imo.

Why would 40 FBI Special Agents & the FBI BAU2 be involved in a double homicide investigation in rural America? This is an anomaly, imo.. Not the norm...deja vu...

Good Morning my friend!:seeya:

I believe it is two pronged. One because at the time when it all began Sills had one established murder and one victim missing and presumed abducted or possibly abducted with the threat of being murdered. They didn't know at the time if the perps could have taken Shirley over state lines. The FBI is usually called in when a victim is missing and presumed at that time to be kidnapped.

I think it also involved the FBI since a lot of the evidence collected may be from financial accounts that can be retrieved electronically via computers. Plus of course they had to look into the history of the victims in order to delve into the possibility that may have been some type of financial gain or financial fraud happening to the Dermonds. That would take them to several states beyond Georgia imo to any state where they may have had business transactions in or financial accounts. Plus they had a decapitated victim so I think the FBI would be a better agency to rule a hit out done by any group such as the mafia, cartel or hired hit man......than the GBI, imo. In fact if the GBI had come into assist they would have probably asked the FBI, US Marshalls Office to assist them with this type of evidence since the FBI has field offices all across the USA.

Secondly, there is some bad blood between Sills and the GBI. He has his reasons whether we understand them or not. If I was a police department head who had asked for assistance in one of the biggest takedown's ever, and had the door shut in my face, I wouldn't go back asking for assistance from the same agency that turned me down the first time when I needed them.

This killer is different than most. The way he decapitated the victim afterwards is far from the norm. I think Sills needs the assistance of the profilers on this case than most other cases.

I remember in the Scott Dyleski case even though he killed Pamela Vitale locally the FBI was very much involved in the case due to internet/computer transactions he had made that could be retrieved by their expert forensic computer experts.

IMO

 

[loveboxerkisses]

Evening all...hope they catch this guy who's all over the place, or some other innocent people are going to get hurt. I was just wondering today whatever happened to America's Most Wanted? I thought they did so much good. In fact, I wish there was a 24 hour station like CNN with information that was at least regional and that also did updates on crime. I guess there's no demand for it or money in it. I will rejoice the day they catch whoever did this horrific crime to the Dermonds, it's on my mind every day. Still feeling sad about what they must have experienced.

happyshoes I wondered the same thing! I loved Americas Most Wanted and wish the same thing! Thankful that I am able to come here for updates on this case because I am in Fl and never hear anything on this case here. Also hoping they catch whomever committed this crime after someone on here mentioned the Pettit family murders and a couple others I hurried and looked them up, because I love true crime anything- not that it happens of course- but that poor Pettit family I cannot imagine the horror they felt but to see how it was random was the scariest thing = ( I don't even know what to think anymore about this case soooo many things could make sense but like everyone says why????

 

[tlcya]

FBI - Rick Johnson, special agent in charge of Atlanta field division over all of Georgia, says the FBI has brought in bodies (up to 40) to assist. Those agents involvement have ranged from a few hours to days to weeks. Their expertise ranges from forensic analysts to investigators to criminal profilers. These agents can look through national databases and has access to ultra high tech equipment that most local LE agencies do not have. Per Mr. Johnson this is what the FBI does, add a level of manpower to a mystery such as this at the request of local LE

per May 23, 2014 interview with WSB that was then aired on HLN. http://www.hlntv.com/video/2014/05/23/dermond-murder-mystery-beheading-georgia-lake-oconee

 

[tomkat]

http://voices.yahoo.com/personal-crimes-analysis-5695236.html?cat=17

Personal Crimes are more commonly referred to as violent crimes. The Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program defines violent crimes "as those offenses which involve force or threat of force." (Federal Bureau of Investigations. 2009) The personal crimes that will be discussed are homicide, assault, battery, mayhem, rape, amd statutory rape. This paper will first identify and differentiate the crimes of assault, battery, mayhem, rape, amd statutory rape. This paper will then identify and define the different types of homicide. Finally, this paper will indicate how the different types of homicide are associated with assault, battery, mayhem, rape, amd statutory rape. Types of Personal crimes............

_______________________________________


I don't understand "personal" in this case to mean that they knew them or wanted them dead

but rather, the act itself is, of this or other crimes listed above, referred to or defined as "personal" as far as a category

Then there are different TYPES of personal murders, ie: 1st deg, 2nd deg etc

ALTHOUGH, all along I've said, "someone wanted them dead" and I feel that becuase of the decapitation, but who knows, just how I feel and that feeling has never left me

and of course I or no one, knows WHY or if there is an answer to that

Wonder what leads were "dead ends", just curious thinking on my part

 

[OTPTarheel]

Phone records, court orders on tap

..........

What Sills called a “plausible lead” a bit more than a week ago was a dead end, he said Tuesday.

..........

The sheriff said he is still waiting to receive some phone records he is seeking through a federal court order.


More at link:
http://www.msgr.com/news/local_news/article_35c40320-f72e-11e3-af64-001a4bcf887a.html

Federal court order because it's communications/FCC OR because what LE wants is across state lines/ involves out of state records?

 

[Canaille]

And I sure do hope they give him the death penalty.

That case isn't that uncommon. We have children nowadays killing their parents/grandparents for the most trivial things imaginable.

I read one case this week where two children (I think they were 12-13 years old) killed their grandmother because they wanted the change in her purse so they could go buy a pizza. They killed her with a hatchet.

Speaking of kids killing...

http://www.live5news.com/story/25809948/woman-fatally-stabbed-on-james-island-grandchild-being-treated-at-hospital

 

[wildebeest]

Wonder if Sills has thoroughly questioned the ladies in the bridge group? If the Dermonds had had any disagreements or concerns with friends, former business acquaintances, or family, I imagine Shirley would have mentioned it to someone at one of the bridge meetings. Women tend to use their friends as sounding boards with life's problems. :twocents:

IMHO

 

[Foxfire]

Interesting closing, so what IS normal investigation of something of this magnitude?

TIA

Good Morning my friend!:seeya:

I believe it is two pronged. One because at the time when it all began Sills had one established murder and one victim missing and presumed abducted or possibly abducted with the threat of being murdered. They didn't know at the time if the perps could have taken Shirley over state lines. The FBI is usually called in when a victim is missing and presumed at that time to be kidnapped.

I think it also involved the FBI since a lot of the evidence collected may be from financial accounts that can be retrieved electronically via computers. Plus of course they had to look into the history of the victims in order to delve into the possibility that may have been some type of financial gain or financial fraud happening to the Dermonds. That would take them to several states beyond Georgia imo to any state where they may have had business transactions in or financial accounts. Plus they had a decapitated victim so I think the FBI would be a better agency to rule a hit out done by any group such as the mafia, cartel or hired hit man......than the GBI, imo. In fact if the GBI had come into assist they would have probably asked the FBI, US Marshalls Office to assist them with this type of evidence since the FBI has field offices all across the USA.

Secondly, there is some bad blood between Sills and the GBI. He has his reasons whether we understand them or not. If I was a police department head who had asked for assistance in one of the biggest takedown's ever, and had the door shut in my face, I wouldn't go back asking for assistance from the same agency that turned me down the first time when I needed them.

This killer is different than most. The way he decapitated the victim afterwards is far from the norm. I think Sills needs the assistance of the profilers on this case than most other cases.

I remember in the Scott Dyleski case even though he killed Pamela Vitale locally the FBI was very much involved in the case due to internet/computer transactions he had made that could be retrieved by their expert forensic computer experts.

IMO

FBI - Rick Johnson, special agent in charge of Atlanta field division over all of Georgia, says the FBI has brought in bodies (up to 40) to assist. Those agents involvement have ranged from a few hours to days to weeks. Their expertise ranges from forensic analysts to investigators to criminal profilers. These agents can look through national databases and has access to ultra high tech equipment that most local LE agencies do not have. Per Mr. Johnson this is what the FBI does, add a level of manpower to a mystery such as this at the request of local LE

per May 23, 2014 interview with WSB that was then aired on HLN. http://www.hlntv.com/video/2014/05/23/dermond-murder-mystery-beheading-georgia-lake-oconee

Many, if not most of the answers to the questions asked and points made in your excellent posts above are contained in this video;
http://www.mashpedia.com/Dwight_York

This eyeopening video is a power point presentation by the author of Ungodly. His journey, which began as an investigative reporter for a msm newspaper in Ohio. Assisting in the presentation is Sheriff Sills, and other investigators including FBI.
____________________________
Irony; as was RP/GW(Linger Longer), Tama-RE(500 Acre - NC Compound) was a prior hunting preserve; Putnam Co Nixes Bldg Permit for Ramses(private Hunting Lodge)

http://cultnews.culteducation.com/g...am-again-nixes-nuwaubian-building-permit.html

<modnsip>
http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/...-finishes-jail-time-for-tax-evasion/2057455/#

 

[oceanblueeyes]

http://voices.yahoo.com/personal-crimes-analysis-5695236.html?cat=17

Personal Crimes are more commonly referred to as violent crimes. The Uniform Crime Reporting (UCR) Program defines violent crimes "as those offenses which involve force or threat of force." (Federal Bureau of Investigations. 2009) The personal crimes that will be discussed are homicide, assault, battery, mayhem, rape, amd statutory rape. This paper will first identify and differentiate the crimes of assault, battery, mayhem, rape, amd statutory rape. This paper will then identify and define the different types of homicide. Finally, this paper will indicate how the different types of homicide are associated with assault, battery, mayhem, rape, amd statutory rape. Types of Personal crimes............

_______________________________________


I don't understand "personal" in this case to mean that they knew them or wanted them dead

but rather, the act itself is, of this or other crimes listed above, referred to or defined as "personal" as far as a category

Then there are different TYPES of personal murders, ie: 1st deg, 2nd deg etc

ALTHOUGH, all along I've said, "someone wanted them dead" and I feel that becuase of the decapitation, but who knows, just how I feel and that feeling has never left me

and of course I or no one, knows WHY or if there is an answer to that

Wonder what leads were "dead ends", just curious thinking on my part

I believe not only Sills sees this case as being personal....i.e.....the killer knew them both in someway, but I also bet all of the FBI agents with their collective experience investigating cases like this also agrees 100% with him.

We know they wanted them dead because they both are dead. The intent is obvious and murder was what the killer or killers wanted the end result to be.

At one time overkills (very violent crimes) were considered by LE to possibly be committed by someone who knew the victims personally on a very close basis. Usually when it happens by family members the suspect lives with the victims or was separated recently or a divorce had been filed by the victim.

However our times are changing and so are the suspects who do hideous murders like this. We are now seeing more and more overkill forceful brutal murders way beyond what was necessary to achieve death than ever before being carried out by total strangers.

It isn't just murders either that are being carried out in excessive violent ways. It can be home invasion robbers as well.

I read a sickening case last year where 4 thugs invaded a home and it was occupied by one adult female and two adult males. They demanded money and when they didn't have any money to give them they tortured them for days. They tied up the men, and made the husband watch while they repeatedly beat and gang raped his wife. Then to torture the men they used power drills and drilled into their knee caps and ankles. None of the thugs knew the victims they tortured. These victims survived but there have been many who do not.

I really think the decapitation shows a very distant unemotional detachment for the victim. He knew him, imo, but there was no emotional bond there. Imo, he simply coldly did what he thought he had to do in order to hide evidence. Protecting himself was his main goal.

 

[Foxfire]

I believe not only Sills sees this case as being personal....i.e.....the killer knew them both in someway, but I also bet all of the FBI agents with their collective experience investigating cases like this also agrees 100% with him.

We know they wanted them dead because they both are dead. The intent is obvious and murder was what the killer or killers wanted the end result to be.

At one time overkills (very violent crimes) were considered by LE to possibly be committed by someone who knew the victims personally on a very close basis. Usually when it happens by family members the suspect lives with the victims or was separated recently or a divorce had been filed by the victim.

However our times are changing and so are the suspects who do hideous murders like this. We are now seeing more and more overkill forceful brutal murders way beyond what was necessary to achieve death than ever before being carried out by total strangers.

It isn't just murders either that are being carried out in excessive violent ways. It can be home invasion robbers as well.

I read a sickening case last year where 4 thugs invaded a home and it was occupied by one adult female and two adult males. They demanded money and when they didn't have any money to give them they tortured them for days. They tied up the men, and made the husband watch while they repeatedly beat and gang raped his wife. Then to torture the men they used power drills and drilled into their knee caps and ankles. None of the thugs knew the victims they tortured. These victims survived but there have been many who do not.

I really think the decapitation shows a very distant unemotional detachment for the victim. He knew him, imo, but there was no emotional bond there. Imo, he simply coldly did what he thought he had to do in order to hide evidence. Protecting himself was his main goal.

<BBM for Focus>

Ocean, why do yo you think that Sheriff Sills believes the Dermonds knew their murderer/s?

 

[tomkat]

And On The NC topic, GBI isnt Needed if this Case Has Anything To Do with them

JM observation Fbi And Sills Are VERY familiar With Their TActics Possibly No Need For Gbi

Interesting Abiut The Hunting Land Hmmm Angry They May be!

Many, if not most of the answers to the questions asked and points made in your excellent posts above are contained in this video;
http://www.mashpedia.com/Dwight_York

This eyeopening video is a power point presentation by the author of Ungodly. His journey, which began as an investigative reporter for a msm newspaper in Ohio. Assisting in the presentation is Sheriff Sills, and other investigators including FBI.
____________________________
Irony; as was RP/GW(Linger Longer), Tama-RE(500 Acre - NC Compound) was a prior hunting preserve; Putnam Co Nixes Bldg Permit for Ramses(private Hunting Lodge)

http://cultnews.culteducation.com/g...am-again-nixes-nuwaubian-building-permit.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tama-Re

In 2000, a security/paramilitary group; The Royal Guard Of Amen-RE inc., owned by actor Wesley Snipes's Amen Ra Films filed BATF papers to set up a Security Training Center on property adjacent to Tama-RE(NC compound). NC claimed Snipes as one of their own, but through a spokesperson Snipes denied any affiliation. The irony is that Snipes was charged and convicted with tax evasion of 7 million for the years 1999/2001. Snipes appeal was based on an obscure section of the tax code that stated foreign sources of income were not taxable. NC considered themselves a sovereign nation... JMO
http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/...-finishes-jail-time-for-tax-evasion/2057455/#

 

[tomkat]

No Defensive Wounds, Tells Me They didnT expect Anything .....Untowards........At alll

 

[Bethanthony]

http://www.msgr.com/news/local_news/article_35c40320-f72e-11e3-af64-001a4bcf887a.html


One phone call being pursued involved a cell phone found on the counter in the Dermonds&#8217; house, Sills said. It also was a dead end, he said.

Sills said the office continues to get text messages and emails about the case, including those from Dunwoody in the Atlanta area &#8211; and Oklahoma.


Interesting. Sandy Springs is in Dunwoody, right?? --Where the Dermonds lived for many years in the 1990s. But Oklahoma...why was that mentioned? What might be the tie to Oklahoma? Time to do some investigating...

I also wanted to point out that Sills discussion of leads just disappearing sounds like he's looking at financial records to me, not specific people. Following a long financial trail might be something that just sort of fizzles out in the end, not really a way one would describe an investigative process into people. People's involvement would be very definitive, considering the evidence Sills says he has.

I wonder if the seven experts he had in Atlanta a week or two ago were financial criminologists, looking at business records, trying to establish patterns of money laundering operations.

 

[Bethanthony]

Interesting closing, so what IS normal investigation of something of this magnitude?

TIA

I think what a lot of us are forgetting is who actually lives in this community. One of the founders and former CEO of Reynold's Plantation is Mercer Reynolds. He was George W. Bush's finance chair for his election campaign, and also his business partner.

The people who live in this community, particularly some of the elderly ones, are no small potatoes, in terms of both cash and clout, nationally and internationally.

No chance that LE was going to mess this one up, not in this neighborhood. And I would guess a few favors were called in by a few residents, too...

 

[OTPTarheel]

Oh, I haven't forgotten who lives there and their business/ political connections/ history.Some folks I would call super rich live there.
And that's why I agree with Sheriff Sills this was personal. Lots of other folks with lots more cash and stuff.

And you can trace a cell phone found on a counter, if it didn't belong to the Ds. And I'm assuming the found phone did not belong to SD or RD. Someone paid for monthly service even if it was bought at Wallymart. You have to pay somehow and there would be an electronic footprint associated with the counter cell phone...

Dunwoody is next to- just east of -Sandy Springs. The dividing line was fluid before the areas were incorporated, Sandy Springs in 2006, Dunwoody in 2008.
Sandy springs in Fulton County, Dunwoody in Dekalb. Huntcliff, where the Ds lived was in Atlanta until Sandy Springs became a city.

 

[Happyshoes]

Let me know if I am confused (which I so often am): Sills found a cell phone on the counter and he said it was a dead end? So it must have belonged to one of the D's? Too bad they didn't take it - or better yet, a big gun - when things started outside. Or were they just quickly overtaken? Questions, questions...I had to check in and am hoping you guys will hear something on the 5pm news. I'm in Savannah, so appreciate the updates.

 

[mck16]

http://www.msgr.com/news/local_news/article_35c40320-f72e-11e3-af64-001a4bcf887a.html


One phone call being pursued involved a cell phone found on the counter in the Dermonds’ house, Sills said. It also was a dead end, he said.

Sills said the office continues to get text messages and emails about the case, including those from Dunwoody in the Atlanta area – and Oklahoma.


Interesting. Sandy Springs is in Dunwoody, right?? --Where the Dermonds lived for many years in the 1990s. But Oklahoma...why was that mentioned? What might be the tie to Oklahoma? Time to do some investigating...

I also wanted to point out that Sills discussion of leads just disappearing sounds like he's looking at financial records to me, not specific people. Following a long financial trail might be something that just sort of fizzles out in the end, not really a way one would describe an investigative process into people. People's involvement would be very definitive, considering the evidence Sills says he has.

I wonder if the seven experts he had in Atlanta a week or two ago were financial criminologists, looking at business records, trying to establish patterns of money laundering operations.

How could that turn out to be a dead end? Explain please Mr. Sills. Was the phone one of the Dermonds? What kind of phone was it? Dead end is no explanation as far as I am concerned. jmo

 

[OTPTarheel]

And there were no fingerprints or skin samples or lotion or makeup on that cell phone...really?
How could it be a dead end? Never used?
And if it belonged to the Ds why wouldn't he say so?

I'd be calling every number on that phone,looking up the numbers on websites...