GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #1

[JeannaT]

If you go to kidsandcars.org, you will find a few stories of grandparents absolutely doing this.

I spent a few minutes on that site. Amazing stats - (I love statistics) - and I suspect that better reporting of different kinds of accidents has caused some of the apparent rise in deaths that are really just better information.

Certainly, prior to 1990 there were MANY MANY more deaths than reported - not sure why that number is even there.

But anyway, the good news seems to be that from a high around 2003 - 2007ish, we are doing better at preventing accidental deaths of children due to non traffic deaths in cars.

(An aside, why are so many people running over their children with the front of the car? My guess is, with the beasts they were building around 2003, you couldn't see very well what was right in front of you).

http://www.kidsandcars.org/statistics.html

 

[T4Tide]

That is their fault, and not something that can't be controlled. It terrifies me, that business is a valid excuse for a babies death.

Can you link to these studies?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...e0fe3a-f580-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html


You'll have to read all the way through to find the discussions of the professors and psychologists.


"But the administrator of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration in the U.S., David L. Strickland, has said that based on everything known about these incidents, the vast majority are not due to negligence. Instead, he says most are simply tragic accidents."

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/even...n-in-cars-experts-say-1.1353474#ixzz35UBn152u


http://www.kidsandcars.org/heatstroke.html#Studies

 

[T4Tide]

This website was interesting:

http://www.ggweather.com/heat/

STATISTICS

Total number of U.S. heatstroke deaths of children left in cars, 2014: 13
Total number of U.S. heatstroke deaths of children left in cars, 2013: 44
Total number of U.S. heatstroke deaths of children left in cars, 1998-present: 619
Average number of U.S. child heatstroke fatalities per year since 1998: 38

LEGAL

Only 20 states have laws specifically addressing leaving a child unattended in a vehicle.

The remaining 30 states do not have laws specifically against leaving a child unattended in a vehicle

Another 14 states have had previously proposed unattended child laws
An Associated Press (AP) study "Wide disparity exists in sentences for leaving kids to die in hot cars" examined both the frequency of prosecutions and length of sentences in hyperthermia deaths
- Charges were files in 49% of all the deaths. 81% resulted in convictions.
- In cases with paid caregivers (i.e., childcare workers, babysitters) 84% were charged and 96% convicted
- Only 7% of the cases involved drugs or alcohol

Airbags vs. Heatstroke Deaths

In the three-year period of 1990-1992, before airbags became popular, there were only 11 known deaths of children from heatstroke .

In the most recent three-year period of 2011-2013, when almost all young children are now placed in back seats instead of front seats, there have been at least 109 known fatalities from heatstroke...a ten-fold increase from the rate of the early 1990s. (graphic) [Important note: This in no way implies that it is advocated that children be placed in the front seat or that airbags be disabled.]

 

[JeannaT]

Again, that is not a variable outside of their control. Business and change, is not a valid excuse. You have a change in routine, you slow yourself down and make sure your kid isn't baking to death from the inside out for hours. SIMPLE.

Well, it IS simple, actually, and that's why it's extremely rare for a child to die in a hot car. Very very nearly statistically ALL parents get this right. We have 24.5 million kids in the US from birth - 5, and last year 48 children were left in a locked hot car and died as a result.

It is an EXCEPTIONALLY rare ocurance. It does make the news and so we believe it's common.

 

[blue22]

Well, it IS simple, actually, and that's why it's extremely rare for a child to die in a hot car. Very very nearly statistically ALL parents get this right. We have 24.5 million kids in the US from birth - 5, and last year 48 children were left in a locked hot car and died as a result.

It is an EXCEPTIONALLY rare ocurance. It does make the news and so we believe it's common.

I never said it's common. I'm saying it's inexcusable even once.

There is simply no valid excuse for allowing this to happen. Ever.

 

[T4Tide]

I spent a few minutes on that site. Amazing stats - (I love statistics) - and I suspect that better reporting of different kinds of accidents has caused some of the apparent rise in deaths that are really just better information.

Certainly, prior to 1990 there were MANY MANY more deaths than reported - not sure why that number is even there.

But anyway, the good news seems to be that from a high around 2003 - 2007ish, we are doing better at preventing accidental deaths of children due to non traffic deaths in cars.

(An aside, why are so many people running over their children with the front of the car? My guess is, with the beasts they were building around 2003, you couldn't see very well what was right in front of you).

http://www.kidsandcars.org/statistics.html

bbm.... probably so. Being the large family we are, we have to have "beasts" to fit us all in.

I'm glad I was directed to this site. My oldest son is 14 1/2 and I am expecting our 5th child. By the time she is a toddler, he will be driving alone. He already backs the car out of the garage for me if we need to wash it or use the garage for another purpose, and is learning to bush hog the field using the tractor, etc. We sat down together and read much of the info/stories. I need him to be aware of these types of accidents and how it is going to be imperative that he know his little sister is safely secured with one of us before getting into a vehicle.

 

[blue22]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...e0fe3a-f580-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html


You'll have to read all the way through to find the discussions of the professors and psychologists.


"But the administrator of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration in the U.S., David L. Strickland, has said that based on everything known about these incidents, the vast majority are not due to negligence. Instead, he says most are simply tragic accidents."

Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/even...n-in-cars-experts-say-1.1353474#ixzz35UBn152u


http://www.kidsandcars.org/heatstroke.html#Studies

Thanks for the links.

With that said, I will always disagree with it not being negligence. The parents failed to provide and protect a child's basic needs, resulting in death. That is the very definition of negligence.

 

[tlcya]

Wonder what those searches of dad's office and his computer turned up.

Can't help but recall all those searches on the Anthony computers.

 

[Chewy]

I never said it's common. I'm saying it's inexcusable even once.

There is simply no valid excuse for allowing this to happen. Ever.

Well said :cheers:

 

[T4Tide]

Just in case anyone was looking for them, here are the 20 states who have existing laws and their legislation:

http://www.ggweather.com/heat/laws.htm

 

[T4Tide]

Written in 2007, but this article talks about the differences in situations and sentences handed down to people in this situation:

http://www.ggweather.com/heat/ap_sentencing.htm

 

[JeannaT]

bbm.... probably so. Being the large family we are, we have to have "beasts" to fit us all in.

I'm glad I was directed to this site. My oldest son is 14 1/2 and I am expecting our 5th child. By the time she is a toddler, he will be driving alone. He already backs the car out of the garage for me if we need to wash it or use the garage for another purpose, and is learning to bush hog the field using the tractor, etc. We sat down together and read much of the info/stories. I need him to be aware of these types of accidents and how it is going to be imperative that he know his little sister is safely secured with one of us before getting into a vehicle.

I have three sons who are drivers, and our driveway situation was ideal. We have a driveway parking/turnaround area in the driveway. When they exit the garage to walk to their car, they approach the car from behind and then have to back up to exit the driveway. It would be nearly impossible for them to have backed over something/someone in that situation because they've just now seen the entire back of their car.

In situations where a car is parked in a garage and the driver gets into the car and opens the automatic garage door and then backs out, it seems extremely likely that at some point they will back into something or someone. Because you simply can't see what is there, and you never had the chance to see what is there due to the garage door being closed.

Do you have a set up where your son has to approach the car from behind? That works.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Mine does, too.... and I believe the victims are the children AND parents in these situations.





I'm not trying to be argumentative, and I don't appreciate the eye rolls, but the part I am reading and learning about isn't about parents "forgetting" babies and absolutely NOT THINKING ABOUT THEM FOR 7 HOURS. The studies are showing that these parent's brains are so preoccupied that they truly believe they've already safely secured the baby wherever it's supposed to be, or that the baby is safely with the other parent, etc. One of the stories detailed about how the baby was dressed for Luau day or something cute at daycare. Dad was supposed to take the baby that day, and he and mom had a lunchtime phone conversation. Mom asked, "What did they think of her luau costume?" It was that moment that the dad realized he didn't remember anyone's reaction to the costume and bolted out to the parking lot to find his deceased daughter. In his mind, as unfathomable as it may seem to you and me, his daughter was safe at day care.



Personally, while I am not without error, I am so thankful to be able to be a stay at home mom and not work anymore. I don't think we need gadgets and bells and whistles to fix this problem. We need parents that stay home, minimize, prioritize, and concentrate on just raising kids. We've made a two-income home a believed necessity in many people's lives, because the 4bd fully stylized with furnishing homes, two new cars, boat, every electronic gadget, and keeping up with the Jones' is a must. We need moms and dads that aren't overloaded. Those are personal priorities that people must change if they want to decrease the chances of these incidents occurring to them and their children.





I know there's no way to know, but it'd be interesting to find out how often this happens when the heat isn't excessive enough to kill the child. How many parents do this in the cooler months, only to find the child dehydrated and sleeping, not dead? Doesn't make the news, but the parent was just as "negligent." It's kinda like driving drunk. It's only a felony if the person you hit dies (depending on state laws.) I know. I was hit by a drunk driver and didn't die. He only got a DUI. His negligence was the same, however... so should the legal ramifications be?

I completely and totally agree with every word!


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[T4Tide]

Thanks for the links.

With that said, I will always disagree with it not being negligence. The parents failed to provide and protect a child's basic needs, resulting in death. That is the very definition of negligence.

And I agree with you, except I think all accidents can be classified as negligence, and I think the stiffest penalty for most parents is the loss of their child. I know I can't think of anything worse they could do to me!

 

[jnTexas]

I have a feeling there's something on his computer. Maybe he was researching child death in a hot car.

I hope my gut feeling is wrong and this child was gone before being left in a hot car. What a terrible way to pass.

I agree with others there's no excuse. None, zilch for leaving your infant/toddler in ahot car ever.

You can get jail time for killing someone in a car while on a cellphone. Why are these people who leave their children in the car to die a horrible death spared jail time? Why? Because we as a society feel bad for someone who's too busy to get their child out. I mean really!!!! these children are helpless. The one person in charge of protecting them forgot. Forgot they were there. Forgot they were responsible. Forgot forgot forgot. i can't imagine ever forgetting my kids in the car and they were babies when rear facing car seats, cell phones, and rear seat laws were in affect. I just can't understnad being to busy or stressed to remember your child. This is not forgetting a baseball game or doctor's appointment this is forgetting the one person in your life that is not able to protect themselves.

Just sickening.....

 

[JeannaT]

I never said it's common. I'm saying it's inexcusable even once.

There is simply no valid excuse for allowing this to happen. Ever.

[modsnip]

The fact is, very very rarely, parents do forget their babies in cars and the babies die.

[modsnip] Recognizing that rarely it DOES happen and working backward to understand the events leading up to the death, to find the situations where it is most likely to occur, and then devising methods to make it harder to absentmindedly leave a baby in a hot car is how to make this even rarer. [modsnip]

We should keep in mind, in this case, police don't believe the father was in fact absentminded so all this discussion centered around forgetfulness doesn't appear to apply in this case.

 

[Linda7NJ]

My guess..there is evidence of blunt force trauma or some other rather obvious reason seen by professionals...LE.
IMO
It's more than his behavior after. Or possible poisoning. IMO


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[T4Tide]

I have three sons who are drivers, and our driveway situation was ideal. We have a driveway parking/turnaround area in the driveway. When they exit the garage to walk to their car, they approach the car from behind and then have to back up to exit the driveway. It would be nearly impossible for them to have backed over something/someone in that situation because they've just now seen the entire back of their car.

In situations where a car is parked in a garage and the driver gets into the car and opens the automatic garage door and then backs out, it seems extremely likely that at some point they will back into something or someone. Because you simply can't see what is there, and you never had the chance to see what is there due to the garage door being closed.

Do you have a set up where your son has to approach the car from behind? That works.

Well, he doesn't have a car yet, but.... we have always made a habit of opening the garage from the fixed opener on the wall instead of the visor clippy thing. In our garage, the driver's side is on the opposite side of the house entry door, and we walk BEHIND the car to get in it. This mostly to save the lives of bicycles, scooters, Ripstiks, and other unattended toys. I think it's a good set up. The parking pad outside the garage leads to a huge circular drive, and my husband pulls through. We have an extra vehicle that right now has to be reversed out, but could be parked differently in the future.

 

[Chewy]

Mine does, too.... and I believe the victims are the children AND parents in these situations.


I'm not trying to be argumentative, and I don't appreciate the eye rolls, but the part I am reading and learning about isn't about parents "forgetting" babies and absolutely NOT THINKING ABOUT THEM FOR 7 HOURS. The studies are showing that these parent's brains are so preoccupied that they truly believe they've already safely secured the baby wherever it's supposed to be, or that the baby is safely with the other parent, etc. One of the stories detailed about how the baby was dressed for Luau day or something cute at daycare. Dad was supposed to take the baby that day, and he and mom had a lunchtime phone conversation. Mom asked, "What did they think of her luau costume?" It was that moment that the dad realized he didn't remember anyone's reaction to the costume and bolted out to the parking lot to find his deceased daughter. In his mind, as unfathomable as it may seem to you and me, his daughter was safe at day care.

Personally, while I am not without error, I am so thankful to be able to be a stay at home mom and not work anymore. I don't think we need gadgets and bells and whistles to fix this problem. We need parents that stay home, minimize, prioritize, and concentrate on just raising kids. We've made a two-income home a believed necessity in many people's lives, because the 4bd fully stylized with furnishing homes, two new cars, boat, every electronic gadget, and keeping up with the Jones' is a must. We need moms and dads that aren't overloaded. Those are personal priorities that people must change if they want to decrease the chances of these incidents occurring to them and their children.


I know there's no way to know, but it'd be interesting to find out how often this happens when the heat isn't excessive enough to kill the child. How many parents do this in the cooler months, only to find the child dehydrated and sleeping, not dead? Doesn't make the news, but the parent was just as "negligent." It's kinda like driving drunk. It's only a felony if the person you hit dies (depending on state laws.) I know. I was hit by a drunk driver and didn't die. He only got a DUI. His negligence was the same, however... so should the legal ramifications be?

You admit this is the first time you've looked into this but presume to lecture everyone in the thread.

The eyeroll was for the "forgetful" parent.

A gallon of milk is not a baby.


Baby deaths happens a lot too when drug addicts and meth heads go off the rails. We don't feel judgmental about prosecuting them even though they had diminished capacity We prosecute them for negligence. We don't feel sympathy for them. We are disgusted by them.

Some of us feel equally disgusted by self involved negligent parents who "forget" babies for hours .

 

[JeannaT]

I have a feeling there's something on his computer. Maybe he was researching child death in a hot car.

I hope my gut feeling is wrong and this child was gone before being left in a hot car. What a terrible way to pass.

I agree with others there's no excuse. None, zilch for leaving your infant/toddler in ahot car ever.

You can get jail time for killing someone in a car while on a cellphone. Why are these people who leave their children in the car to die a horrible death spared jail time? Why? Because we as a society feel bad for someone who's too busy to get their child out. I mean really!!!! these children are helpless. The one person in charge of protecting them forgot. Forgot they were there. Forgot they were responsible. Forgot forgot forgot. i can't imagine ever forgetting my kids in the car and they were babies when rear facing car seats, cell phones, and rear seat laws were in affect. I just can't understnad being to busy or stressed to remember your child. This is not forgetting a baseball game or doctor's appointment this is forgetting the one person in your life that is not able to protect themselves.

Just sickening.....

I think that's likely. Or something like he just bought life insurance on the child.

And to me, being absent minded and leaving your baby in the car is a MUCH lesser sin than planning ahead of time to cook them on purpose.