GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #11

[who knew?]

And you've been trying to find any possible excuse to get him off even thought it's blatantly obvious that he did it. I guess we just see the world differently then.

At this point, I have a hard time seeing why anyone is supporting him. Before the hearing, I could see some possible explanations (although in my mind they weren't logical). After the hearing, or maybe I should say as the hearing progressed, I landed on the guilty side with a thud. I just don't see how the evidence at this point can be explained away. And we don't have it all yet. I'm guessing when we hear the rest, we may need therapy to get the information out of our heads.

RH still has his day in court to look forward to - I can't imagine why he would want any more secrets to come out. Hopefully he will plea, but, who knows? As for LH, I think she is involved. I'm not convinced 100%, but I "think" she is the so-called brains behind this. Why? IDK, which is why I am on the fence as to how involved she was. In my mind, I feel like she planned it, and RH screwed it up. But, whether or not she planned it, or he did, the bottom line is the end result (the death if Cooper) occurred, and it was at his hands.

There are several child murders where the suspect is defended by family - even when the evidence is clear. The most obvious is Casey Anthony who was defended until the end by Cindy. Another one that comes to mind is Chris Coleman who murdered his wife and boys. He worked for Joyce Meyers Ministries, but had a whole other life going on. His parents, the Rev Ron Coleman and wife, are still defending him. They have now filed a federal appeal saying he didn't get a fair trial, that the obscene videos he shared with his mistress shouldn't have been allowed in the proceedings. Maybe it's natural to defend your child no matter how evil they are, but having not been through that, I "think" my child's biggest fear would be of me, not the judge, jury, or prison.

 

[MissJ]

Well since we've been asked to stay on topic I'll only reply this last time. Also I'm loathe to participate in conversations where people try to make it go off topic with hyperbole. But since I don't believe in the death penalty the issue is moot anyway. It was just a figure of speech.


What I mean is, I consider it unconscionable to leave a baby to bake to death in a car (I've been pretty outspoken about this already so I won't repeat myself) And if my grown adult son did this EVEN ACCIDENTALLY I'd want him to man up and take responsibility for what he did to his child. I would of course be compassionate. But I would not waste tax payer money and put the family of his wife through all this because "my precious son can do no wrong." I taught my children to take responsibility for their mistakes and to own up and to be responsible. Not to figure out a way to make excuses and to try to get away with their mistakes.

So I think what some of us are responding to in the direct questions to me, is the idea that there is no question IMO that this is Felony Neglect with 2nd Degree Murder. I would tell my son to go to prison and find his new path in life and follow the journey that has arisen.

I would tell him to plead guilty.

ITA. I don't understand people who make excuses for their children.

 

[EGirl]

it took 2-3 mins to drive from CFA to the parking lot. He didnt forget his son that he just put in the car seat.

It was only about 40 seconds before he missed the turn he would need to make to take Cooper to daycare. No way he forgot in 40 seconds. I believe at the hearing they confirmed no cell activity between CFA and the office. So he wasn't distracted in those 40 seconds. JMO

 

[Evan's Mom]

At this point, I have a hard time seeing why anyone is supporting him. Before the hearing, I could see some possible explanations (although in my mind they weren't logical). After the hearing, or maybe I should say as the hearing progressed, I landed on the guilty side with a thud. I just don't see how the evidence at this point can be explained away. And we don't have it all yet. I'm guessing when we hear the rest, we may need therapy to get the information out of our heads.

RH still has his day in court to look forward to - I can't imagine why he would want any more secrets to come out. Hopefully he will plea, but, who knows? As for LH, I think she is involved. I'm not convinced 100%, but I "think" she is the so-called brains behind this. Why? IDK, which is why I am on the fence as to how involved she was. In my mind, I feel like she planned it, and RH screwed it up. But, whether or not she planned it, or he did, the bottom line is the end result (the death if Cooper) occurred, and it was at his hands.

There are several child murders where the suspect is defended by family - even when the evidence is clear. The most obvious is Casey Anthony who was defended until the end by Cindy. Another one that comes to mind is Chris Coleman who murdered his wife and boys. He worked for Joyce Meyers Ministries, but had a whole other life going on. His parents, the Rev Ron Coleman and wife, are still defending him. They have now filed a federal appeal saying he didn't get a fair trial, that the obscene videos he shared with his mistress shouldn't have been allowed in the proceedings. Maybe it's natural to defend your child no matter how evil they are, but having not been through that, I "think" my child's biggest fear would be of me, not the judge, jury, or prison.

Speaking for myself only, I don't support RH. I know he is at the very least guilty of horrible negligence and should do a lot of time for that.
What I don't know is it if was premeditated or that he should be given the death penalty and I would like to see all of the evidence before deciding either.

 

[Kip]

When Stoddard told him they were charging him, Harris allegedly responded by saying, “but there’s no malicious intent.”

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2014/07/03/justin-ross-harris-cooper-toddler-hot-car-death-live-blog

this statement really makes me wonder if more searches will be turned up by computer forensics. Ones that go specifically to this topic.

While I don't think the "dreaded" statement is at all useful in proving the case - as a jury member, I would think the prosecution is really grasping at straws - the "malicious intent" statement, IMO, is another nail in RH's coffin.

First, using that legal phrase makes it sound like he had researched the issue and found that most parents who forget their children in cars aren't charged because there was no malicious intent. If a parent were to say something like this, they'd be more likely to say something like "I didn't mean to do it."

Actually, I think most normal parents would be inconsolable at that moment and feel like they didn't deserve to live.

 

[who knew?]

Well since we've been asked to stay on topic I'll only reply this last time. Also I'm loathe to participate in conversations where people try to make it go off topic with hyperbole. But since I don't believe in the death penalty the issue is moot anyway. It was just a figure of speech.


What I mean is, I consider it unconscionable to leave a baby to bake to death in a car (I've been pretty outspoken about this already so I won't repeat myself) And if my grown adult son did this EVEN ACCIDENTALLY I'd want him to man up and take responsibility for what he did to his child. I would of course be compassionate. But I would not waste tax payer money and put the family of his wife through all this because "my precious son can do no wrong." I taught my children to take responsibility for their mistakes and to own up and to be responsible. Not to figure out a way to make excuses and to try to get away with their mistakes.

So I think what some of us are responding to in the direct questions to me, is the idea that there is no question IMO that this is Felony Neglect with 2nd Degree Murder. I would tell my son to go to prison and find his new path in life and follow the journey that has arisen.

I would tell him to plead guilty.

Exactly. You said it better than I did. Avoid the trial. Plead guilty. None of the sexting info would have had to come out.

 

[Stolat]

Okay, so with all of these cases where the duck seems to be quacking like a duck, we always get the talking heads who say people grieve differently. Okay...

So how come in all my years I have NEVER seen any one grieve in any way OTHER than exactly how I expected them to, given the circumstances. Has never happened. The only time it seems to happen is when some defense lawyer is looking for a way to get reasonable doubt. They keep saying people grieve differently but I argue that I generally have observed otherwise. Especially with ducks.

 

[Kip]

Like I said, I need all of the facts. I will never understand those who don't.

We're forming opinions here based on the facts we have. Most people will change their opinions should the facts change.

Even jury members often don't have all the facts as the judge might exclude evidence from the prosecution, defense, or both.

 

[who knew?]

Well since we've been asked to stay on topic I'll only reply this last time. Also I'm loathe to participate in conversations where people try to make it go off topic with hyperbole. But since I don't believe in the death penalty the issue is moot anyway. It was just a figure of speech.

Why would someone think this is not on topic? Afaik, this is exactly what this is about????

Maybe I'm missing something here?

 

[jking]

I'll play devil's advocate and don't bash me. I'm just throwing this out there for discussion. ( not necessarily because I believe it ) What if there was no pre meditation? What if what Ross is guilty of is really gross negligence, so gross that he didn't really care whether or not the baby died? He could have thought ' oh crap' and meant to go to his car and get the baby but by then had the sexting going full steam and could not ' get away' and then again thought ' oh crap' a bit later and at some point KNEW the situation was going to be bad but he just didn't want to leave his sex cave and go check and may have even thought ' oh well' if the baby does die, but had no 'plan ' to take his life that morning? ( run on sentence, don't tell me )

That sounds like murder to me

 

[matou]

Ross Harris didn't use his real name on the Skout account or his hometown so I'm not sure it would have been that easy as "just looking him up" on Skout. MOO. Info about how the discovery of his account is in the RH social media thread.

 

[jmcgladr]

The problem with that theory is one side of the car is WIDE open to the parking lot. That increases the number of people who could have seen Cooper in the car. This will be a problem for the prosecution trying to prove premeditation.

It really doesn't seem to me that the jury is going to determine intent by the choice of parking space. A parking space is a parking space, and all of those spaces were hot enough to prove deadly to Cooper when locked inside the vehicle. Seems like splitting hairs, but I could see it the other way. By parking next to the parking lot median, he was only risking having someone park directly beside his car on ONE side. And the person parked on the other side is likely going to be parked there all day, since this is an office parking lot and it was after work had started.

 

[PaperDoll]

It is blatantly obvious he left the child in the car. And there are behaviors that point to him planning Cooper's death. However, after thinking about the evidence that came in at the hearing, I can't say it was premeditated, yet.

We sure do see the world differently. I need all facts before I make a decision and I could never advocate for the killing of my child.

I personally think it was premeditated, I think he had been thinking about this for a while. He was doing searches online about children dying in hot cars and I do not believe it's because he was trying to prevent that, most people should KNOW not to leave your child in a hot car, especially a toddler strapped in a car seat with no way to get out...

 

[NancyA]

We're forming opinions here based on the facts we have. Most people will change their opinions should the facts change.

Even jury members often don't have all the facts as the judge might exclude evidence from the prosecution, defense, or both.

Thanks for that.

Here's the thing though, you, actually any of us, shouldn't have to keep explaining how a forum - exchange of ideas and opinions - works for those who are being deliberately obtuse, those who either can't or won't understand that they don't get to tell others how they should think, what they should say or bang on and on the same point over and over to derail the discussion.
Moving along.

 

[Kip]

There is little that would justify her statement at the daycare. If she believed that she should have immediately driven to the HD PL, found her husbands car and rescued her son. It would still have been too late according to the named TOD, but it would have been something.

God, I hate this case.

Great observation. I hadn't thought of that before. If a mother discovered her child wasn't at daycare and believed that her husband had left their child in the car, a normal mother would frantically call her husband and tell him to run out to the car and get the child.

 

[Chewy]

It really doesn't seem to me that the jury is going to determine intent by the choice of parking space. A parking space is a parking space, and all of those spaces were hot enough to prove deadly to Cooper when locked inside the vehicle. Seems like splitting hairs, but I could see it the other way. By parking next to the parking lot median, he was only risking having someone park directly beside his car on ONE side. And the person parked on the other side is likely going to be parked there all day, since this is an office parking lot and it was after work had started.

Yep, I think it's interesting that they have the google street search that shows where he normally parked. When I first heard about this case I wondered if he parked far away from the entrance of the building. Anyone who parks in a corporate spot when going to work, even people who work for the actual stores, know there's sort of a unconscious habit to park in the same place all the time. So deviating from this without a reason would be interesting. I'd be very curious to see the security camera footage of what the parking lot actually looked like and if there were spaces near where he normally parked.

Someone posted a great map of the parking spot, I'll see if I can find it again.

 

[JudyBolton]

I just can't believe at a probable cause hearing the prosecution is allowed to present evidence that does not show the context of the conversation. Very unfair.

Did the prosecutor not have the right to ask the context of the detective in cross? If RH had some innocent explanation - could he not have whispered this to his attorney - who could then have said, "Is it not true, Detective, that when LH asked, "Did you say too much?" he had just said XYZ?" I realize that this was not the same as a trial - but how will it look during the trial if these tapes are played and it is obvious that these statements, taken out of context, mean something entirely different?

 

[Chewy]

Here is the Map of the parking lot. I'd love to have it outlined where he parked normally and where he parked that day.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...bb-County-June-2014-7&p=10692697#post10692697

 

[Stolat]

Great observation. I hadn't thought of that before. If a mother discovered her child wasn't at daycare and believed that her husband had left their child in the car, a normal mother would frantically call her husband and tell him to run out to the car and get the child.

Yes! And what did she do instead? Help me out, I'm drawing a blank on the facts.

 

[Kip]

Okay, so with all of these cases where the duck seems to be quacking like a duck, we always get the talking heads who say people grieve differently. Okay...

So how come in all my years I have NEVER seen any one grieve in any way OTHER than exactly how I expected them to, given the circumstances. Has never happened. The only time it seems to happen is when some defense lawyer is looking for a way to get reasonable doubt. They keep saying people grieve differently but I argue that I generally have observed otherwise. Especially with ducks.

People do grieve differently, but there's a large range of what is normal. Some people might be stoic; others might regularly fall apart. It's when people's behavior falls outside this large range when our hinky meters go off. And while one odd reaction might be overlooked, a string of odd reactions has more import.

In my experience in following these cases, more often than not, people who have odd reactions do end up being involved. But not always.

In this case, I find it telling that LH's own mother found her reactions strange.