GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #11

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NancyA said:
No, once again, this was not a trial. He used those statements along with all the other evidence presented to determine if the prosecution had probable cause for the arrest and enough evidence for them to present the case to the Grand Jury. This is not some random guy they pulled in off the street, this a judge who is presumably experienced and well-versed enough in the antics, theatrics, spins, prevarications and diversionary tactics of lawyers (whichever side of the divide they happen to fall on) to not be swayed by 'fluff'. If you didn't approve of how the probable cause hearing was conducted then you're really gonna be unhappy when it goes to Grand Jury since - someone correct me if I'm wrong - I understand ONLY the DA gets to put on witnesses and ask questions there and the defense doesn't get a look in.
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Nancy A...... Thank you isn't enough.
This isn't hard to understand imoo but worth repeating.
 
SCHMAE said:
I'll play devil's advocate and don't bash me. I'm just throwing this out there for discussion. ( not necessarily because I believe it ) What if there was no pre meditation? What if what Ross is guilty of is really gross negligence, so gross that he didn't really care whether or not the baby died? He could have thought ' oh crap' and meant to go to his car and get the baby but by then had the sexting going full steam and could not ' get away' and then again thought ' oh crap' a bit later and at some point KNEW the situation was going to be bad but he just didn't want to leave his sex cave and go check and may have even thought ' oh well' if the baby does die, but had no 'plan ' to take his life that morning? ( run on sentence, don't tell me )
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Think about the normal reaction to this happening. If you sincerely realized you left your baby in the car would you go to lunch, buy lightbulbs and toss them in the back seat and mosey back upstairs.

There's reasonable doubt in cases like this and there is just plain stupidity. Not saying you are being stupid, but reasonable doubt doesn't mean that you try to come up with excuses for the guy and create a way out of it. Although Defense Attorneys are paid to do this, it's unethical IMO because they don't actually have to prove what they are saying is true. They just have to get one stupid person on the jury to consider it might be true.

So let's consider the argument that he had no way of knowing someone wouldn't find Cooper in the car in time. It's possible right? I mean what if a group home decided to come down and as a random act of kindness wash all the cars in the HD parking lot! That would be tons of people all over the cars and RH would have no way of knowing this wasn't going to happen. It's a reasonable doubt.

Or what about a small plane making an emergency landing in the parking lot. It's happened before!! How could RH not know that plane wouldn't have to make an emergency landing in the parking lot and then fwammo police and rescue vehicles everywhere and even news crews pouring through the parking lot. It COULD happen right? It's possible so that creates a reasonable doubt right?

And what if there was an employee at the HD who just that day decided to start breaking into people's cars and stealing their CDs and whatever else they could find. It's possible. It could happen right? How could RH not know for 100 percent sure that this wasn't going to happen that day? He couldn't! AHA! Reasonable doubt.

The key word is "reasonable" not "possible" doubt. So it's pretty unreasonable to think that if a guy was sexting up a storm and forgot his son and then suddenly remembered him he wouldn't immediately fly down the stairs and look for him in the car.
 
SCHMAE said:
I'll play devil's advocate and don't bash me. I'm just throwing this out there for discussion. ( not necessarily because I believe it ) What if there was no pre meditation? What if what Ross is guilty of is really gross negligence, so gross that he didn't really care whether or not the baby died? He could have thought ' oh crap' and meant to go to his car and get the baby but by then had the sexting going full steam and could not ' get away' and then again thought ' oh crap' a bit later and at some point KNEW the situation was going to be bad but he just didn't want to leave his sex cave and go check and may have even thought ' oh well' if the baby does die, but had no 'plan ' to take his life that morning? ( run on sentence, don't tell me )
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If......he had ANY afterthought and did nothing, in my opinion, that's pre-meditation AND negligence.
 
SStarr33 said:
I'm not saying that it is only RH that is being treated unfairly. If what you said is true, and the defense was not given the video prior to the hearing, that would be unfair for any defendant.

PS--there are some who would just give him the needle. In fact, Chewy's own child would already be executed.
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I never said the defense wasn't given the video prior to the hearing - I have NO idea what the defense was or was not given - I only said the hearing is NOT a trial and the prosecution only has to demonstrate enough for probable cause. Whether or not they are obliged to disclose what they have to the defense at this stage I don't know, I suspect not otherwise the defense would have or should have objected far more strongly than they did, but if they didn't it doesn't mean RH was treated any differently or more unfairly than anyone else at any other probable cause hearing.
 
SCHMAE said:
I'll play devil's advocate and don't bash me. I'm just throwing this out there for discussion. ( not necessarily because I believe it ) What if there was no pre meditation? What if what Ross is guilty of is really gross negligence, so gross that he didn't really care whether or not the baby died? He could have thought ' oh crap' and meant to go to his car and get the baby but by then had the sexting going full steam and could not ' get away' and then again thought ' oh crap' a bit later and at some point KNEW the situation was going to be bad but he just didn't want to leave his sex cave and go check and may have even thought ' oh well' if the baby does die, but had no 'plan ' to take his life that morning? ( run on sentence, don't tell me )
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it took 2-3 mins to drive from CFA to the parking lot. He didnt forget his son that he just put in the car seat.
 
popsicle said:
Also would like to know if that car was backed in as well....putting the driver on the other side of the car.
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we know RH was backed into his spot.

Once he arrived at Home Depot, Harris drove past an empty space, then backed up into a spot between a parked car and a vacant, grassy area, Stoddard testified.

http://www.news.com.au/world/justin-ross-harris-tweets-about-a-snooze-button-on-babies-before-forgetting-son-who-died-in-hot-car/story-fndir2ev-1226983059847

wish I had time to look at transcripts to recall which was on which side of his car. But if he backed into spot which landed the grassy area to his own left and the already parked car was pulled in forward to his right, the person whose vehicle was to his right's driver seat would be on the other side of RH vehicle, thus making discovery of Cooper even less likely MOO

maybe during my lunch break I can check the transcript to see if Stoddard specified the direction of parking the other car had opted?
 
Chewy said:
I would want them to give him the needle.
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Not me.

I'd want them to strap him in very securely, perhaps with duct tape stretched across his eyes and mouth, in a 3 by 3 area with a salamander blowing at it's highest setting.
 
SCHMAE said:
I'll play devil's advocate and don't bash me. I'm just throwing this out there for discussion. ( not necessarily because I believe it ) What if there was no pre meditation? What if what Ross is guilty of is really gross negligence, so gross that he didn't really care whether or not the baby died? He could have thought ' oh crap' and meant to go to his car and get the baby but by then had the sexting going full steam and could not ' get away' and then again thought ' oh crap' a bit later and at some point KNEW the situation was going to be bad but he just didn't want to leave his sex cave and go check and may have even thought ' oh well' if the baby does die, but had no 'plan ' to take his life that morning? ( run on sentence, don't tell me )
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I follow you SCHMAE. But that is the beauty of the charges they have gone with IMO. Gross negligence is all it takes. Premeditation is not needed.

While it looks as though LE believes it may exist, they already have the negligence locked up tight MOO.

It is not at all reasonable to believe this man fed his son, strapped him in tightly and kissed him and told him he loved him and in thirty seconds forgot that child was in the car with him.

It defies all that is logical and reasonable. And really, that is all they need to prove.
 
tlcya said:
we know RH was backed into his spot.

Once he arrived at Home Depot, Harris drove past an empty space, then backed up into a spot between a parked car and a vacant, grassy area, Stoddard testified.

http://www.news.com.au/world/justin-ross-harris-tweets-about-a-snooze-button-on-babies-before-forgetting-son-who-died-in-hot-car/story-fndir2ev-1226983059847

wish I had time to look at transcripts <snip>

maybe during my lunch break I can check the transcript to see if Stoddard specified the direction of parking the other car had opted?
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rsbm: problem is, the only transcripts around are not complete; I watched the hearing on TV & online- and CNN & HLN both skipped parts of the hearing- their transcripts reflect that.
 
NancyA said:
I never said the defense wasn't given the video prior to the hearing - I have NO idea what the defense was or was not given - I only said the hearing is NOT a trial and the prosecution only has to demonstrate enough for probable cause. Whether or not they are obliged to disclose what they have to the defense at this stage I don't know, I suspect not otherwise the defense would have or should have objected far more strongly than they did, but if they didn't it doesn't mean RH was treated any differently or more unfairly than anyone else at any other probable cause hearing.
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I'm sorry, I misunderstood. I thought you said the defense was not given all of the evidence prior to the hearing. So this takes me back to my OP about all of this

"It sure does seem the defense should have had access to the recordings.

So that makes me think it is one of two things--ineffective assistance of counsel or incriminating context."
 
screecher said:
Not me.

I'd want them to strap him in very securely, perhaps with duct tape stretched across his eyes and mouth, in a 3 by 3 area with a salamander blowing at it's highest setting.
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I'm actually opposed to the death penalty myself, but if my adult son did this um YEAH he'd be running to prison. You know I was watching a true crime episode entitled Strangers on a Train and it was pretty obvious that this man killed his former best friend (a woman) with the help of another woman and at the very end his mother took him into a room and got him to confess to the whole thing.

I really thought about what the mother did, and how she was able to get him to do it. And I think that for some of us, even if someone makes a horrible evil decision and we're at the point of seemingly no return, for some us, we'd try to salvage whatever level of redemption of human dignity may still exist in our children. I have adult children and I wouldn't want to see one of them go to prison for the rest of their life or be executed. However, I wouldn't want to continue to Cindy Anthony my way down the road. We're given one life on this planet and hedonism beckons at every corner. Encouraging and defending evil and corruption and lies in our children creates a shell of a human being beyond all meaning of the sanctity of life. I am an atheist so I don't worry about forgiveness or redemption. What I'd be worried about as a mother is the integrity of the living soul of my child. I would pull them back from the abyss of darkness and criminal behavior. I would talk them down from the ledge of total submission to evil behavior. I would plead with them to try to find in themselves that last scrap of their humanity and to come back over to humanity and be honest, tell what happened, solve the confusion, put away the lies and deceit and then find a way to strive towards being a better person.

I would not be giving them the benefit of the doubt or trying to find ways to get them out of it. Doing so would be equivalent to killing my own child in my opinion. And I really just don't understand people who think that way.

JMVHO
 
CHERIE.T said:
it took 2-3 mins to drive from CFA to the parking lot. He didnt forget his son that he just put in the car seat.
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And if he did forget, he shouldn't be driving a car, and shouldn't have a job. How did he ever get his work done, between sexting and forgetting? But he can go at lunch and remember light bulbs for the wife. I can hear it now, he has ADHD and it is untreated, and his mind is wandering all over the place. But he has the capability to do sexting with 6 women, and I'll bet there was no confusion about who was who, and what naked body part went with what women. And yes, the first thing I said was look, Ross is going with the Justin Bieber look, he wants a younger image, some poor boy that is just so busy with life, these things happen.
 
Chewy said:
I'm actually opposed to the death penalty myself, but if my adult son did this um YEAH he'd be running to prison. You know I was watching a true crime episode entitled Strangers on a Train and it was pretty obvious that this man killed his former best friend (a woman) with the help of another woman and at the very end his mother took him into a room and got him to confess to the whole thing.

I really thought about what the mother did, and how she was able to get him to do it. And I think that for some of us, even if someone makes a horrible evil decision and we're at the point of seemingly no return, for some us, we'd try to salvage whatever level of redemption of human dignity may still exist in our children. I have adult children and I wouldn't want to see one of them go to prison for the rest of their life or be executed. However, I wouldn't want to continue to Cindy Anthony my way down the road. We're given one life on this planet and hedonism beckons at every corner. Encouraging and defending evil and corruption and lies in our children creates a shell of a human being beyond all meaning of the sanctity of life. I am an atheist so I don't worry about forgiveness or redemption. What I'd be worried about as a mother is the integrity of the living soul of my child. I would pull them back from the abyss of darkness and criminal behavior. I would talk them down from the ledge of total submission to evil behavior. I would plead with them to try to find in themselves that last scrap of their humanity and to come back over to humanity and be honest, tell what happened, solve the confusion, put away the lies and deceit and then find a way to strive towards being a better person.

I would not be giving them the benefit of the doubt or trying to find ways to get them out of it. Doing so would be equivalent to killing my own child in my opinion. And I really just don't understand people who think that way.

JMVHO
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I am with you on all of this. I would not defend my own for doing such evil. No way, No how.
 
momrids6 said:
rsbm: problem is, the only transcripts around are not complete; I watched the hearing on TV & online- and CNN & HLN both skipped parts of the hearing- their transcripts reflect that.
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I watched the 3 YouTube videos that are referenced in the media thread. I believe they are complete. When I watched on HLN, I realized some parts were cut even though they tell you they are just "pausing".
 
tlcya said:
we know RH was backed into his spot.

Once he arrived at Home Depot, Harris drove past an empty space, then backed up into a spot between a parked car and a vacant, grassy area, Stoddard testified.

http://www.news.com.au/world/justin-ross-harris-tweets-about-a-snooze-button-on-babies-before-forgetting-son-who-died-in-hot-car/story-fndir2ev-1226983059847

wish I had time to look at transcripts to recall which was on which side of his car. But if he backed into spot which landed the grassy area to his own left and the already parked car was pulled in forward to his right, the person whose vehicle was to his right's driver seat would be on the other side of RH vehicle, thus making discovery of Cooper even less likely MOO

maybe during my lunch break I can check the transcript to see if Stoddard specified the direction of parking the other car had opted?
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Here is the video--they talk about it around 22:00. He says no when asked if the drivers side is on the other side, but it sounds like he is side-stepping the question

http://new.livestream.com/wildabouttrial/events/2490138/videos/55596876
 
eileenhawkeye said:
How do you know they got the info from here? Couldn't anyone download Skout and find his profile?
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The info that he already had a Scout account was divulged by Det. Stoddard at the hearing. All anyone had to do was look it up. Seems uncanny that news wasn't published until one of the members here posted the link to the account. Not the first time it has happened here and won't be the last. Law enforcement, news stations read here every day. They don't call it Websleuths for nothing. LOL
 
tlcya said:
we know RH was backed into his spot.

Once he arrived at Home Depot, Harris drove past an empty space, then backed up into a spot between a parked car and a vacant, grassy area, Stoddard testified.

http://www.news.com.au/world/justin-ross-harris-tweets-about-a-snooze-button-on-babies-before-forgetting-son-who-died-in-hot-car/story-fndir2ev-1226983059847

wish I had time to look at transcripts to recall which was on which side of his car. But if he backed into spot which landed the grassy area to his own left and the already parked car was pulled in forward to his right, the person whose vehicle was to his right's driver seat would be on the other side of RH vehicle, thus making discovery of Cooper even less likely MOO

maybe during my lunch break I can check the transcript to see if Stoddard specified the direction of parking the other car had opted?
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Judging by the re-enactment yesterday.. the passengers side was by the grassy area.
 
Chewy said:
And you've been trying to find any possible excuse to get him off even thought it's blatantly obvious that he did it. I guess we just see the world differently then. :)
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It is blatantly obvious he left the child in the car. And there are behaviors that point to him planning Cooper's death. However, after thinking about the evidence that came in at the hearing, I can't say it was premeditated, yet.

We sure do see the world differently. I need all facts before I make a decision and I could never advocate for the killing of my child.
 
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