GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #13

[Bratislava]

Another neighbor, Abraham Burton, lived next to Harris and his wife for five years. He said that he used to barbeque with Harris, and that he remembers Leanna as very quiet.

"Ross was interning at Home Depot, and my wife worked there, so we talked about work a lot," Burton said. "Moving away from family, being on your own without support and taking care of a family could add stress to the marriage and possibly lead to something like this. Maybe Ross was on something."

This is from an article posted today on HLNTV. See http://www.hlntv.com/article/2014/07/11/justin-ross-harris-neighbors for the remainder.

 

[Karmady]

Yes, people jump red lights, people forget children in cars, some don't and blow through on red on purpose and some leave their kids in cars on purpose. Sometimes no harm done, close call whew, sometimes someone gets hurt or dies. There are appropriate penalties already for all these scenarios so I just don't understand what your point is unless it's to highlight there's a possibility, despite all the incriminating evidence and suspicious circumstances pointing to the contrary, Cooper's death was just a tragic accident. Even if it was, given that so many red flags have been raised doesn't it still warrant a thorough investigation and yes, a trial, to establish that one way or the other?

Oh yes, my post definitely assumes there's a chance he didn't do this on purpose. But, again, the penalties to be imposed in this case don't depend on whether he intended to kill Cooper.

 

[Bratislava]

BBM

"Distracted by hook up plans"? Before work? After strapping Cooper into his car seat at Chick-Fil-A? At the stop light when he SHOULD have turned left to take Cooper to day care?

Not understanding how that works.

That's probably because you are a normal, nurturing thoughtful person rather than a "sex addict".

RH was a living a secretive life in which all his hookup logistics and photos needed to be hidden from wife and friends. Car time is when a lot of this happens (or that's what I've heard from men in treatment for *advertiser censored* and sex addiction). I imagine he was planning a hookup from the second he woke up in the morning. It's compulsive and it drives out thoughts of all other priorities for these men- like heroin, or a quick fix.

If you are married to a "sex addict", all I can say from what I've seen is run for your life. The longterm outlook isn't pretty.

 

[InstantProof]

Right! He remembered to take Cooper out of the car and into Chick-fli-A (Sp?), then take him out and put him in the car, strap him in the car seat, kiss him, then less than a minute later FORGETS to drive him to day care??? I know I'm repeating myself here but I can't help it.. lol.... He knew Cooper was in the car when he left to go into work.. He left him there to die ON PURPOSE!!!

You have to add to this the coincidence that Cooper made no noise and RH never turned his head in a way that he would notice the child.

 

[NancyA]

Oh yes, my post definitely assumes there's a chance he didn't do this on purpose. But, again, the penalties to be imposed in this case don't depend on whether he intended to kill Cooper.

Again, if this isn't actual murder then at the very least this appears to be aggravated and reckless negligence or forgetting which is akin to the speeder going through the red light on purpose and killing a pedestrian even though he didn't mean to. We don't have to like it or agree that there needs to be no intent but if that is the law in that state then the citizens of that state are or should be aware of it and act accordingly to stay within the law.

 

[MsMarple]

Does anyone remember anything in any of the warrents where Harris says that he "had a false memory of taking Cooper to day care that day" or anything like that? Did he say anything like that to LE? Or did he just say that he "forgot" to take Cooper to day care because he "forgot" that Cooper was in the car?

I've also been wondering about that. AFAIK he told LE he forgot to drop Cooper off and there's nothing in the warrant about thinking he'd already done so. Of course we don't yet have all the info so he may have said that in an interview.

I read an article where the doctor pushing Forgotten Baby Syndrome as a defense explains the condition and gives some examples. At this point RH's words and actions don't fit well under the description. For example, the doctor points out that a reminder will “snap” the memory back:

What happens is that the memory circuits in a vulnerable hippocampus literally get overwritten, like with a computer program. Unless the memory circuit is rebooted—such as if the child cries, or, you know, if the wife mentions the child in the back—it can entirely disappear.”

RH had at least one "reminder" - the daycare email. And if he did actually text LH about Cooper then that's damning under the FBS defense.

Also, in the same article parts of Lyn Balfour's 911 call were quoted. She's come under fire for some of her emotionless comments so it's interesting that she said:

That tape is unendurable. Mostly, you hear the passer-by’s voice, tense but precise, explaining to a police dispatcher what she is seeing. Initially, there’s nothing in the background. Then Balfour howls at the top of her lungs, “OH, MY GOD, NOOOO!”

For a few seconds, there’s nothing. Then another deafening shriek: “NO, NO, PLEASE, NO!!!”

Please note, I'm not commenting on Balfour's guilt or innocence, just using her words to contrast RH's.

He said: “What have I done?” and “I've killed my baby!”

I don't want to get myself into trouble for over-analyzing this but I noticed that his cries of anguish were all about him and also how quickly he skipped past that horrible moment of disbelief and denial when a loved one dies suddenly.

http://theweek.com/article/index/94741/the-last-word-forgotten-baby-syndrome

:moo:

 

[Bratislava]

You have to add to this the coincidence that Cooper made no noise and RH never turned his head in a way that he would notice the child.

This reminds me of a time when I was in middle school when my mom had a patient crashing in the hospital and she drove there like a bat from hell. She left my little sister and me in the doctor's parking deck and ran inside. We went into the hospital when we heard a call for us from Doctor ### over the speakers. She was scared to death and had completely forgotten where she had left us. At first, she thought she had left us in the doctor's lounge but she couldn't find us there. Then she didn't remember picking us up.

Honestly, panic makes you forget stuff. So does arousal and adrenaline. The brain doesn't balance the amygdala well.

The nurses told my mom that doctors with kids "did this all the time". She was mortified. Of course we were absolutely fine, mostly because we were old enough to get out of a car if it got hot or if we got scared.

Don't judge my mother, guys, she worked like a dog and saved lives every day as a doctor. Back when we were young, you might be surprised to find the rules about parenting and car seat sizes were much more lax.

 

[Karmady]

Again, if this isn't actual murder then at the very least this appears to be aggravated and reckless negligence or forgetting which is akin to the speeder going through the red light on purpose and killing a pedestrian even though he didn't mean to. We don't have to like it or agree that there needs to be no intent but if that is the law in that state then the citizens of that state are or should be aware of it and act accordingly to stay within the law.

Actually, they've changed the law applicable to his current charge specifically to make the penalty more lenient. The new law went into effect on July 1. It was passed in April, before this happened. That's one of the reasons I've been focused on the penalty. jmo

 

[helenann2k]

When I had my first child, I was still working full time and he was in daycare. My husband's job was closest to the daycare, so I only drove him a few times a month, unless my husband was traveling for work and wasn't in town. On at least two separate occasions that I remember, I forgot that my son was in the carseat, which was in the center of the back seat. My commute was about 40 minutes, and the turn for his daycare was about 10 minutes before I would arrive at work. He usually fell asleep during the ride, and so he wasn't making any noise, and as I got closer to work, I was already going over the meetings I had scheduled, my deadlines, etc. However, both times I forgot he was in the car, I realized he was there BEFORE I got out of the car. Either I spotted him in the rearview mirror when I went to exit the highway, or I spotted him when parking the car, or I remembered him when I stopped thinking about work and started focusing on the present again. My point is, one can forget the child is in the car if distracted, but there comes appoint when you stop being distracted, maybe just to park in the correct spot, change lanes, or simply as you unbuckle your own seatbelt or close the car door. Given that RH had gone to breakfast and interacted with the child right before getting to Home Depot, I don't see any way that he would have been so caught up in his own distractions, plus I don't think little Cooper would have fallen asleep in that short period of time, and wide awake toddlers are not quiet; they are hard to ignore.

 

[tlcya]

I'm sticking to my theory that RH was planning a little park hook-up between 4:16 and the time of arriving at the movie, which he told his friends would be "late". That's my suspicion and JMO. But he was acting like a man with a plan of some sort, and it was a plan that required him to do things like get light bulbs during lunch so that maybe he could tell his wife that he stopped to get light bulbs after movie or between work and movie.

I think RH was distracted by hookup plans.

I believe he may have made a clear and conscious decision to leave that child in the car. But even if he was distracted by thoughts of sexting and hooking up, IMO that is still criminal neglect that resulted in death.

Your post above did get me thinking tho. As to the BBM portion, I am still troubled by the reports that RH drove the opposite direction from his home after leaving HD at 4:16. This confuses me because the movie and home were both in the same direction from work. So what was in the opposite direction? Was it a park where a hookup was scheduled? If so, that would actually make me less convinced that he KNEW he was and did leave Cooper in that car all day to die.

Would'nt change my mind on his guilt for what he was charged with. But it might change things for others who need to feel there was premeditation before they can accept this prosecution. It might for them, be evidence of that lack of premeditation.

 

[skymom]

I believe he may have made a clear and conscious decision to leave that child in the car. But even if he was distracted by thoughts of sexting and hooking up, IMO that is still criminal neglect that resulted in death.

Your post above did get me thinking tho. As to the BBM portion, I am still troubled by the reports that RH drove the opposite direction from his home after leaving HD at 4:16. This confuses me because the movie and home were both in the same direction from work. So what was in the opposite direction? Was it a park where a hookup was scheduled? If so, that would actually make me less convinced that he KNEW he was and did leave Cooper in that car all day to die.

Would'nt change my mind on his guilt for what he was charged with. But it might change things for others who need to feel there was premeditation before they can accept this prosecution. It might for them, be evidence of that lack of premeditation.

Can I ask a dumb question? What does "BBM" stand for? I see it and I'm pretty up to speed on (or can figure out) most acronyms. Just want to know so that I can make sure I understand. Thanks so much!

 

[sunflowerchick]

If you can't understand that, I can definitely understand how you can't understand forgetting your kid in a car seat. I don't know how to explain it other than to say the stop light doesn't even register. It's most definitely not a choice. When I've done it and realized I've done it (by the blaring of horns!) it totally freaked me out. As I mentioned, so many people have told me of doing exactly the same thing. It happens --- a lot.

I don't understand either scenario and I have "accidentally" run a red light. I still don't understand how it happened or why I was distracted enough to not notice the light. Regardless, negligence is similar in either case. If you blow through a red light and cause damage or (heaven forbid!) kill someone, you would be liable in court. If you blow through the light because you are texting or distracted by something, the negligence is higher. If you leave your child in the car, whether intentional or accidental, you are liable for that death.

 

[EvilSoup]

I have. They are awful. Makes you afraid to let your child out of your sight. :stay:

Oops. Hit wrong reply button. This was in response to having dreams that your child was dead.

 

[gngr~snap]

He would probably have just been making sure she was going to make it "in time" with work and traffic (which is horrible in Atlanta) and, if not, he'd either be late to the movie or get Cooper himself. Based on Stoddard's testimony that they picked up a roughly equal number of times in the nine days prior, they may not have had a plan etched in stone every day.

If she works in the center I think she does, her trip to daycare in the afternoon would be against traffic.
That Davita is next to White Water on Hwy 41 and their hours are 8:00a- 4:30p. They have dietitian in house and others doing home visits. There is no way to know for sure when she got off, especially since she is part time.
At any rate the office she worked at or out of (home health) was north of where they lived.

The Day care is open from 7:00a -6:30p.

Other than snowjam, I don't see her trip to daycare after work having much if any traffic.
Daycare to her home is different story!

All posts are MOO. Sent via Insignia Flex Tablet.

 

[taysmommy]

BBM is Bolded By Me.

 

[daisy7]

Can I ask a dumb question? What does "BBM" stand for? I see it and I'm pretty up to speed on (or can figure out) most acronyms. Just want to know so that I can make sure I understand. Thanks so much!

Bolded by me

 

[NancyA]

Actually, they've changed the law applicable to his current charge specifically to make the penalty more lenient. The new law went into effect on July 1. It was passed in April, before this happened. That's one of the reasons I've been focused on the penalty. jmo

Yes, I was aware of that although I wasn't sure if it had been established if the new or the old law would apply to RH. If you're saying he'll be tried under the new law then thanks for that confirmation but it means I'm even more at a loss as to your point if RH isn't actually facing the DP. Not being deliberately obtuse I assure you, I'm just confused as to where you're going with your posts about inadvertent red lights and accidental child in car forgetting in all this.

 

[MyBelle]

You proved my point. The outcome of the forgetting the water bottle, no biggie. The outcome of forgetting the child in the car...huge. The act of forgetting is the same in both cases...it happened. Not sure what you mean about your Mom, unless you mean things in mind should be harder to forget based on importance. That I believe to be true. However, the act of forgetting itself is a true or false thing.

Cooper wasn't left somewhere and then forgotten. He was right there in the car where the father placed him prior to the two minute drive to the office. Six inches from his father. A 22-month-old capable of making sounds and continuing to make sounds because of the tightness of the shoulder straps. No way to miss him when Daddy turned his head even slightly, placed light bulbs in the car, returned to the car after work.

If "forgetting" is the defense his father wants to use, that's up to him. It simply isn't believable for multiple reasons: short distance in travel, too tight shoulder straps, nearness to the father while in the car, previous research into child car deaths, focus on collecting life insurance proceeds.

imo.

 

[skymom]

BBM is Bolded By Me.

Thank you! :tyou:

 

[tlcya]

Can I ask a dumb question? What does "BBM" stand for? I see it and I'm pretty up to speed on (or can figure out) most acronyms. Just want to know so that I can make sure I understand. Thanks so much!

lol, it means BOLDED BY ME. But I noticed I forgot to Bold the portion of the post I was quoting so - derp. Thanks for you question causing me to realize my lapse