GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #13

[popsicle]

I don't mind people getting a little off topic, or even just bringing up a subject they think could relate to the case. What gets on my head is the bickering, nastiness, and arguing - people talking "down" to others, making them feel their opinions are not valued.... Having the attitude that they have all the answers and then power posting what those answers are.

While the topic is serious, I'd say most of us are here because we enjoy sleuthing. I don't know about the rest of you, but if I want to listen to fighting, I'll turn off my iPad and listen to my grandkids!

JMO and this is not directed at anyone in particular!!!

ditto

 

[Spice]

I think there is a full moon hangover going on or something, it's been particularly "tense" in this thread for the past 12 hours.

In any event, I have a question.

LE says Ross made a 6 minute phone call from the scene to Home Depot and that the call eventually reached Toddler Room #5. It just dawned on me that this is kind of crazy.

Ross "discovered" Cooper in the restaurant parking lot at about 4:30 right? Very shortly thereafter he makes the a few unsuccessful calls to Leanne and then the six minute call.

Leanne shows up at daycare to pick up Cooper at 4:50, about 20 minutes later. The staff at Little Apron did not know that Cooper was dead at that point, just that he did not get dropped off at daycare that day. Leanne is adamant that Ross left Cooper in the car leaving the staff confused.

Do you see how that is strange? If the 6 minute call from his cell phone (which he lied to LE about) reached Home Depot and then eventually was transferred to Toddler Room #5 who did he talk too?

Unless he was on hold and in transfer for an entire 6 minutes which I find doubtful. And the call was not "dropped" as LE said it did eventually reach Toddler Room #5.

I find that really interesting and wonder what it will amount too.

 

[Linda7NJ]

It would be unusual at ages 7 and 8, I wouldn't say "abnormal." As teens, it might definitely be "normal" but as grown adults, most men have outgrown being fussy about their hair.

This conversation also seems wildly off topic, and I think I'll bow out now. I can only hope there will be some new news in the case soon, it might stop the bickering.

Most men sadly have lost their hair by adulthood

R.I.P. Hair.

IMO there is nothing wrong with good grooming habits.

Taste and style plays more into it than anything else....

All IMO


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[cluciano63]

I wonder if there will be a gag order at some point. Or if info will continue to come out over the next year or so. In Heather Elvis' case, the gag order basically shut down conversation these past months...nothing new to discuss. Anyway...just wondering. Jmo

 

[PigPong]

Agree a thousand percent for this: my own personal experience with an abusive narcissistic ex husband. My son's safety and the fact that my parents marriage was a good example of a healthy relationship were what finally clued me in. And I am a strong, educated, smart independent woman. I was all "no way I will ever wind up in an abusive relationship!" And then when it started to get weird (slowly, abuse is insidious, abusers start small) - I was all "pfft, we can work these problems out, he didn't hit me."

Which then led to "pffft, I didn't have to get stitches" when he broke my jaw. And then "oh he ONLY strangled me once" "he ONLY held the knife to my throat, he didn't do it".... See how incredibly insane that mentality is?

One night the police finally got involved and I was like "holy ****, we have a child and this is not safe for him" - this was right after my oldest was born. And it was the easiest decision I ever made once I realized how unsafe I was.

But my demeanor? Steel. I was on autopilot. It was robotic. The orders of protection, the criminal cases against him, divorce action, custody battle, etc.

So based on this experience and other women I've met through the alternatives for battered women org and a crapload of research on domestic violence, I've learned that there are a whole range of reactions and emotions at play. There is no right or wrong response (barring murder or abusing your own children obvs). But to try to speculate based on her demeanor is not a good indicator.

And this guy was a computer guy. He knew how to manipulate a computer very well. How do we know if she truly was googling the hot car stuff? And furthermore even if she was, how do we not know that wasn't his "eureka!" Moment where he realized how he was going to inflict the most pain/damage on his wife and escape his life?

All speculation and opinions of course....


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I'm not even going to touch the domestic violence conversation... but I'm kicking myself in the *advertiser censored* for not questioning how they know LH googled the car stuff. I question everything. Drives my wife and boss crazy.

My wife and I pick up each others devices, except phones, fairly common, to look something up. If all their going by is because she was logged into Google when the search was made... they are going to have trouble in court with that

 

[EvilSoup]

I wonder if Ross researched cases of other people who left their kids in their cars before he did and what ended up being done i.e. charges and sentencing? JMO

Here is a case from my area of a toddler around Cooper's age who died in a hot vehicle. The grandmother thought she dropped him off at the daycare and she is deaf and the vehicle had tinted windows. http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...being_left_for_a_day_in_a_sweltering_car.html

I have thought this very thing since I first heard about this case.

 

[popsicle]

Not stepping into this but just pointing out if most men have outgrown being fussy about their hair I don't think things like Rogaine, Hair Club for Men, hair transplants etc would be so popular. jmo

 

[Linda7NJ]

I'm not even going to touch the domestic violence conversation... but I'm kicking myself in the *advertiser censored* for not questioning how they know LH googled the car stuff. I question everything. Drives my wife and boss crazy.

My wife and I pick up each others devices, except phones, fairly common, to look something up. If all their going by is because she was logged into Google when the search was made... they are going to have trouble in court with that

Iirc she claimed she made the searches.
Perhaps times and schedules will also nail that down.


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[popsicle]

I'm not even going to touch the domestic violence conversation... but I'm kicking myself in the *advertiser censored* for not questioning how they know LH googled the car stuff. I question everything. Drives my wife and boss crazy.

My wife and I pick up each others devices, except phones, fairly common, to look something up. If all their going by is because she was logged into Google when the search was made... they are going to have trouble in court with that

She told LE she did.

 

[JudyBolton]

I think there is a full moon hangover going on or something, it's been particularly "tense" in this thread for the past 12 hours.

In any event, I have a question.

LE says Ross made a 6 minute phone call from the scene to Home Depot and that the call eventually reached Toddler Room #5. It just dawned on me that this is kind of crazy.

Ross "discovered" Cooper in the restaurant parking lot at about 4:30 right? Very shortly thereafter he makes the a few unsuccessful calls to Leanne and then the six minute call.

Leanne shows up at daycare to pick up Cooper at 4:50, about 20 minutes later. The staff at Little Apron did not know that Cooper was dead at that point, just that he did not get dropped off at daycare that day. Leanne is adamant that Ross left Cooper in the car leaving the staff confused.

Do you see how that is strange? If the 6 minute call from his cell phone (which he lied to LE about) reached Home Depot and then eventually was transferred to Toddler Room #5 who did he talk too?

Unless he was on hold and in transfer for an entire 6 minutes which I find doubtful. And the call was not "dropped" as LE said it did eventually reach Toddler Room #5.

I find that really interesting and wonder what it will amount too.

I have wondered about that call, too. Apparently LE did some research on it as they stated there was no 6 minute voice mail.... I think WAY back on some thread there was some speculation that RH may have a GF at the daycare. There was zero proof - just someone's speculation IIRC. So he could have been talking to that person who would not want to *out* their relationship.

As you said, it will be interesting to see if there is anything significant about it. You have to wonder, if it is true he lied to LE about being on the phone, and they heard him talking - why would he lie? If he was leaving a message - it seems that would have discovered by Toddler Room #5.

 

[cluciano63]

If the googling were to happen now, by a parent, after weeks of several car death incidents across the country, it might not seem as bizarre and suspicious, Imo. Any parent might be freaked out and concerned this past month, I suppose. But that does not really apply to the timing in RH's case, Imo.

 

[JerseyGirl]

I'm not even going to touch the domestic violence conversation... but I'm kicking myself in the *advertiser censored* for not questioning how they know LH googled the car stuff. I question everything. Drives my wife and boss crazy.

My wife and I pick up each others devices, except phones, fairly common, to look something up. If all their going by is because she was logged into Google when the search was made... they are going to have trouble in court with that

Ummm... Leanna specifically TOLD police she googled the car stuff:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/03/justice/georgia-hot-car-toddler-death/

Among the other details police have released is that Harris and his wife, Leanna Harris, told them they looked up how hot a car needed to be to kill a child. Five days before Cooper died, Ross Harris twice viewed a sort of homemade public service announcement in which a veterinarian demonstrates on video the dangers of leaving someone or something inside a hot car. Leanna Harris told police that she had recently seen a story on a state initiative aimed at reminding people not to leave children in cars and that it was a fear of hers, Stoddard said.

Ross Harris "stated that he recently researched, through the Internet, child deaths inside vehicles and what temperature it needs to be for that to occur," police have said, adding that Harris told investigators "he was fearful that this could happen." During questioning, Leanna Harris "made similar statements regarding researching in car deaths and how it occurs," according to police.

 

[Spice]

I have thought this very thing since I first heard about this case.

I think there is going to be so much more once LE finishes with his hard drives and when they receive his full cell phone activity. At the time of the hearing, they only had "scratched the surface" in their words and they still hadn't received the phone records and were only going by what they could physically see on his phone.

They already have so much. Can you imagine what they are going to find when their computer forensics teams finishes investigating? Omg.

 

[JLSChook]

I think there is a full moon hangover going on or something, it's been particularly "tense" in this thread for the past 12 hours.

In any event, I have a question.

LE says Ross made a 6 minute phone call from the scene to Home Depot and that the call eventually reached Toddler Room #5. It just dawned on me that this is kind of crazy.

Ross "discovered" Cooper in the restaurant parking lot at about 4:30 right? Very shortly thereafter he makes the a few unsuccessful calls to Leanne and then the six minute call.

Leanne shows up at daycare to pick up Cooper at 4:50, about 20 minutes later. The staff at Little Apron did not know that Cooper was dead at that point, just that he did not get dropped off at daycare that day. Leanne is adamant that Ross left Cooper in the car leaving the staff confused.

Do you see how that is strange? If the 6 minute call from his cell phone (which he lied to LE about) reached Home Depot and then eventually was transferred to Toddler Room #5 who did he talk too?

Unless he was on hold and in transfer for an entire 6 minutes which I find doubtful. And the call was not "dropped" as LE said it did eventually reach Toddler Room #5.

I find that really interesting and wonder what it will amount too.

That bugs me very much and it has for days and days. I posted this on the day of the hearing:

originally posted by JLSChook
If Leanna went to the daycare at 4:51 to pick up Cooper, (when she said "Ross must have left him in the car"), wouldn't the daycare people have told her that Cooper had died?

He left work at 4:16, it takes about 10 minutes (probably less) to get to Akers Mill.

What time was this 6 minute phone call from Ross to the daycare? It had to be after 4:51 right?

Just re-watching the hearing from today and this is bugging me.

and this on July 5th:

He talked to his wife for about a minute at 4:04. He tried to call her after pulling over and Anthony was giving Cooper CPR. He didn't get ahold of her at that time, but spoke with someone at the daycare for 6 minutes.

THAT is the phone call I want to know about. If he told someone at the daycare that Cooper was dead, why didn't they tell Leanna when she showed up at 4:51?

There is something missing in that 6 minute phone call, or it's a red-herring.

 

[cady]

I'm not even going to touch the domestic violence conversation... but I'm kicking myself in the *advertiser censored* for not questioning how they know LH googled the car stuff. I question everything. Drives my wife and boss crazy.

My wife and I pick up each others devices, except phones, fairly common, to look something up. If all their going by is because she was logged into Google when the search was made... they are going to have trouble in court with that

JMO I believe that LE said that Leanne told them she had googled the car stuff, as well.

 

[KristinSchmistin]

Ummm... Leanna specifically TOLD police she googled the car stuff:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/03/justice/georgia-hot-car-toddler-death/

Among the other details police have released is that Harris and his wife, Leanna Harris, told them they looked up how hot a car needed to be to kill a child. Five days before Cooper died, Ross Harris twice viewed a sort of homemade public service announcement in which a veterinarian demonstrates on video the dangers of leaving someone or something inside a hot car. Leanna Harris told police that she had recently seen a story on a state initiative aimed at reminding people not to leave children in cars and that it was a fear of hers, Stoddard said.

Ross Harris "stated that he recently researched, through the Internet, child deaths inside vehicles and what temperature it needs to be for that to occur," police have said, adding that Harris told investigators "he was fearful that this could happen." During questioning, Leanna Harris "made similar statements regarding researching in car deaths and how it occurs," according to police.

Ok thanks for clearing that up!


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[EvilSoup]

BBM.

Hi Little Rose :seeya:. The thing about that statement is that it misses the mark of Narcissistic Personality Disorder and is really more of a symptom of Histrionic Personality Disorder. Also, it is inherently sexist, and kind of a stereotype of women that do not dress, act, or appear in a conservative way. It also seen more in the symptom list of Histrionic Personality Disorder not Narcissistic Personality disorder.

A symptom of Narcissim is to be preoccupied with fantasies of beauty, power, and unlimited success. At the core of NPD is a over exaggerated view of the self. A sense of Entitlement ,Self importance and exploitation of others, arrogance, and regular arrogant behaviors and a lack of empathy.

Histrionic Personality Disorder is where a person supposedly "Consistently uses physical appearance to draw attention to themself" they have a pathological need to be the center of attention and are uncomfortable if they are not. style of speech that is excessively impressionistic and lacking in detail and they show self-dramatization, theatricality, and exaggerated expression of emotion.

Narcissists are more obsessed with fantasies of beauty, when it comes to themselves and to others. They also lack empathy and exploit others. They are obsessed with money, power, and status. They will do whatever they need to to others to achieve their ideal of unlimited power and success.

The difference with Histrionic is that person uses their appearance in order to be the center of attention to get the attention they incessantly crave. Narcissists use others, Histrionic use their own appearance. They may act inappropriately seductive or provocatively to gain the attention of others. They have a shallow affect and affected speech void of detail. Histrionics also do not lack empathy.

Histrionic Personality Disorder is not trusted by some in the field as it reeks of patriarchal views and a biased shaming of others that do not necessarily dress or act "conservatively" or fit into the dominant paradigm of our society. A couple of years ago, a professor of a mine, ( a Psychologist) said their was talk about removing HPD from the DSM (Diagnostic Manual used by Mental Health Professionals) entirely due to this as it is believed it may be based on outdated bias' and women may have been labeled and overdiagnosed with it due to judgement of the "way they dressed" or for their "sexual" behavior. The new DSM 5 just came out, and I think HPD unfortunately survived. I'll check.

That being said, I know what he means about the "psychopathic hair" lol! That gave me a giggle. Sociopaths are experts at managing their images, it is one of their markers. Narcissists would be preoccupied with beauty and "nice" things and their appearance may appear overly manicured out of shallowness but not necessarily "flashy" or wear tons of jewelery or anything. That's histrionic, and that diagnosis is questionable at this point for its inherent sort of sexism and judgement of an individual's style or manner and nonconformity (especially women).

http://psychcentral.com/disorders/narcissistic-personality-disorder-symptoms/
http://psychcentral.com/disorders/histrionic-personality-disorder-symptoms/

I remember reading an article once that stated often narcissists have "reverse" body dysmorphia, in that they do not see in themselves the same physical "flaws" they may point out in others. For example, someone with JRH's build may call someone with a similar build "fat" and look at his own reflection and think "Dang, I look GOOD!".

Not saying JRH does this, just using him as an example. But I could totally see JRH making comments to LH about her weight, even if it were a 5 lb. gain. I have friends who are married to jerks like that.

Hope this isn't too far off topic. I can see a lot of JRH in descriptions of NPD.

 

[hopingicanhelp]

Iirc she claimed she made the searches.
Perhaps times and schedules will also nail that down.


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Right, it will be interesting to see if it can be proven that she did do them herself, what words were chosen during the searches (were hers looking for prevention VS his looking for a recipe), or did she search at all -- iow, did she attempt to fall on a sword for him?

Another interesting thing -- that VERY first interview that's been mentioned before (does anyone have that link?) with LH in which she took FULL responsibility... paraphrasing here -- she was saying something along that lines of it being all HER fault, that it was HER memory that failed, etc... How does that make any kind of sense knowing what we do now about the timeline and after the PCH?

 

[Spice]

That bugs me very much and it has for days and days. I posted this on the day of the hearing:



and this on July 5th:



There is something missing in that 6 minute phone call, or it's a red-herring.

I think it means something. I really do. I am trying to find a full transcript of the hearing so I can re-read the part when LE testifies that the call was to Home Depot (probably a receptionist) and eventually went through to Toddler Room 5. I want to re read it because I do think there is going to be something to that, I just don't know what. The timing of it is so weird, especially if it happened before 4:50 when Leanne got there. Which I think it did. Didn't he leave Cooper on the ground and immediately begin making phone calls? And HE LIED about calling Home Depot. Why?

 

[Baznme]

Even with the ?'s surrounding the 6 min. call, their separate searches on the car temps needed for death, her comment at the day care center is still very suspicious. Almost like a rehearsed line in a play that was uttered in the wrong spot. Same with the convo at the jail, "did you say too much"? I think she's the one that has said too much.