GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #5

[blue22]

Agree. Did he research time as well as temperature?

Yes, he did.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Exactly. Notice he didn't drive to the nearest ER. There must be a hospital somewhere nearby. He also made sure he wasn't the one who made the 911 call, which is obviously recorded, and will likely be played in court.

Put some thought into it ...he sure did!


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[lawstudent]

We aren't bunnies, and we don't live in Sub-Saharan Africa. Laws reflect society. We don't have to walk miles to get clean water, we aren't fuzzy and eat our babies, and we can't negligently leave a child to die and get away with.

Right, but I was responding to the idea that when parents look into a child's eyes, they fall in love and then watch them 24/7 as a result of this magical bond. That's not really how it works. They fall in love with them and then take care of them in accordance with their education, expectations, resources, and experience. I'm not saying anything about legal responsibility, but I do believe that most of these cases were accidents caused out of ignorance or being on autopilot on the part of loving parents.

Personally, I do not believe I would ever be able to make such a mistake. So I'm not saying it's normal or okay by any means. But I'm also a hypervigilant, very educated person who reads about these cases. I'm a nervous person who by my nature checks everything a million times. I'm just not under the impression that this means that I'm automatically more loving than people who don't do these things. I've met a lot of people who were far more empathetic than me and yet far more idiotic.

Also, in this particular case, if those searches do exist and are recent, then yeah, I don't believe that's a coincidence. But I do believe there are a lot of people who don't realize the danger of hot cars. People underestimate the stupidity of people. I'm talking about the general phenomenon of leaving your kid in a car in cases where there are not other suspicious circumstances. I believe those parents can be loving and do really stupid things, just like there can be parents who appeared to dutifully watch their child and never take negligent actions up until the point where they murdered him or her. Keeping up with expectations and having moral character are different.

 

[octobermoon]

Agree. Did he research time as well as temperature?

Pretty sure he did. I will go back and read the warrant though.


ETA I was wrong...

During an interview with Justin, He stated that he recently researched, through the internet, child deaths inside vehicles and what temperature it needs to be for that to occur.


http://www.11alive.com/story/news/c...609645/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

[believe09]

He is being held with no bond, right? That is pretty impressive for a guy who seems to have strong ties to the community regarding a case that some people feel is an accidental death with no direct evidence of a crime.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Well, people aren't like deer, or bunnies. Not in the least bit. Not even related in any meaningful way. Comparing us to other primates would be a lot more relevant. Gorillas and chimps (our closest ancestors) take care to keep their babies cared for and safe. They carry them around, keep them close, or leave them with "babysitters" and older siblings in the group to care for if they need to venture far.

Male primates sometimes kill their young or the young of others.
Mothers tend instead to abandon..
Still, point is lost on me.




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[katydid23]

http://www.parents.com/baby/safety/car/danger-of-hot-car-for-children/

" Edwards brought Jenna back to the van and strapped her into her rear-facing car seat. "I was talking and singing to her," she recalls. "Five minutes into the drive Jenna started to sing in this little voice she uses when she's sleepy. I had a child-safety mirror, and when I looked in it I could see that she was going to fall asleep." Edwards thought about how much she wanted Jenna to stay asleep and finish her morning nap once she got to the babysitter's. "In a very detailed way, I visualized getting there, walking around to the backseat door, unbuckling her straps, getting her out very gingerly, and covering her ears so the babysitter's door wouldn't wake her. I pictured myself saying to the babysitter, 'Jenna's sleeping. Can I lay her in the crib?'"

For the next 15 minutes, Edwards drove toward the babysitter's. But instead of driving past her workplace and traveling another half block to the sitter's house on the next street, she pulled into her office parking lot. "I parked my car," she recalls. "My bags were in the front seat. I walked around and I got them out, and I went in to work" -- leaving Jenna in the car on a 92°F day for the next seven hours."

It is just not as crazy as it seems. It happens. It just happens. Tragically.

This woman was on a 25 min drive and her child fell asleep 5 min into the ride.

RH forgot about his kid one minute after pulling out of the Chikfilla. That is what I have a hard time believing.

 

[sorrell skye]

Recap of the charges RH is facing:

(c) Any person commits the offense of cruelty to children in the second degree when such person with criminal negligence causes a child under the age of 18 cruel or excessive physical or mental pain.

http://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2010/title-16/chapter-5/article-5/16-5-70

(c) A person also commits the offense of murder when, in the commission of a felony, he causes the death of another human being irrespective of malice.

http://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2010/title-16/chapter-5/article-1/16-5-1

Legal definition of criminal negligence (according to GA criminal code):

(b) Criminal negligence is an act or failure to act which demonstrates a willful, wanton, or reckless disregard for the safety of others who might reasonably be expected to be injured thereby.

http://law.justia.com/codes/georgia/2010/title-16/chapter-2/article-1/16-2-1

Did RH's actions or failure to act cause little Cooper cruel or excessive physical or mental pain? Without a doubt.

Did little Cooper die as the result of RH's actions or failure to act? Absolutely.

Was RH criminally negligent in acting or failing to act, demonstrating willful, wanton, or reckless disregard for his son's safety?

Based on RH's own admission that he searched online regarding child deaths inside vehicles and what temperature it needs to be for that to occur, I'd say it's more likely than not that he's criminally negligent.

IMO, a hypervigilant parent who was allegedly so worried about his child dying in a hot car would have taken steps to prevent it from happening.

 

[RANCH]

Here's the Georgia statute for cruelty to children with second degree bolded.



If I'm understanding things correctly, in order for felony murder to apply, the state must show "criminal negligence" on JRH's part for second degree child cruelty. If not, than involuntary manslaughter would be a possible charge.

http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/gacode/

Criminal negligence in Georgia.

Act of criminal negligence, not an intentional act. Lindsey v. State, 262 Ga. 665 (1993). Criminal negligence necessarily implies, not only knowledge of probable consequences which may result from the use of a given instrumentality, but also willful or wanton disregard of the probable effects of such instrumentality upon others likely to be affected thereby. Criminal negligence is something more than ordinary negligence. Criminal negligence is the reckless disregard of consequences, or a heedless indifference to the rights and safety of others, and a reasonable foresight that injury would probably result. Bohannon v. State, 230 Ga. App. 829 (1998).

So the state will have to show "willful or wanton disregard" on the child cruelty charge if they want to proceed with felony murder if I'm reading this correctly.

http://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc/the-crime-of-reckless-conduct-in-georgia

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

He is being held with no bond, right? That is pretty impressive for a guy who seems to have strong ties to the community regarding a case that some people feel is an accidental death with no direct evidence of a crime.

I think he has a bond hearing coming up, yes? I think I read that.

 

[hopingicanhelp]

You don't choose who you believe. You choose a verdict based on what the evidence causes you to believe.

I understand where you're coming from but have to disagree to an extent - how many trials do we hear discussed that cover "credibility of the witness"?

I think it carries quite a bit more weight.

 

[Flutterby80]

Seriously do these people expect anyone to believe that they never heard of a child dying from being left in a car? Especially living in the hot south. This isn't something you need to google, it's comon sense that if you leave a child in a car for even an hr or 2 or 7 hrs. they will die, or have a devastating injury. The fact that the mother admitted she also searched the same thing(the LE would have caught it) just gives me the chills.


And who are these people that gives a person charged with felony murder of his 22 month old son who calls into the funeral a standing ovation? Me being shocked is an understatement.:banghead: I didn't read everything he said. Did he mention Cooper at all?

I live in Michigan. Responsible parents don't leave kids in the car on 90 degree days here either. It's common knowledge that a car acts as an oven on a hot day. No googling required. Irresponsible parents are another story.

 

[Violet1820]

And waited until the hottest day to do it.

We are still waiting on confirmation he didn't park in his usual covered spot, instead the other side if the building in full sun.

IMO


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I apologize if this was mentioned before, but the difference is drastic. I live in NC and it gets quite hot. My office has a covered deck, but the top floor is not covered. If I park on the lower levels often my car is not hot at all even on 90 degree plus days. Now on the other hand, if I am on the top floor my car is so hot that I can hardly stand to sit in it for any time at all before the AC kicks in and I have to leave the door open.


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[ScarlettScarpetta]

This woman was on a 25 min drive and her child fell asleep 5 min into the ride.

RH forgot about his kid one minute after pulling out of the Chikfilla. That is what I have a hard time believing.

It doesn't matter. One moment on that trip she forgot. She said she went through the routine she would go through upon arriving. She was actively thinking about the child. And then one second her mind switched and that was all it took.

It just takes a momentary stray thought.

 

[jmcgladr]

Male primates sometimes kill their young or the young of others.
Mothers tend instead to abandon..
Still, point is lost on me.




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Well I am not an expert on primates, and it seems possible that these things SOMETIMES happen, but it's not anything like the norm, or their species would not survive. Especially since gorillas, for example, have babies only every 3-6 years, after their previous baby is weaned. That's less often than a lot of people! And makes babies a resource that is precious and solidly invested in. As human babies should be.

 

[blue22]

I understand where you're coming from but have to disagree to an extent - how many trials do we hear discussed that cover "credibility of the witness"?

I think it carries quite a bit more weight.

Witness testimony is part of the evidence you deliberate.

We were talking about reaching a verdict, because you believe the defense attorney. I was saying that you can't reach a verdict just because of what the attorney says. The evidence (or lack of) has to support their arguments. An ineffective witness lacking credibility IS part of the evidence.

 

[blue22]

Criminal negligence in Georgia.




So the state will have to show "willful or wanton disregard" on the child cruelty charge if they want to proceed with felony murder if I'm reading this correctly.

http://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc/the-crime-of-reckless-conduct-in-georgia

Actually, they have to prove that the child died during the commission of a felony, to prove the felony murder. If they add other charges, they only have to prove that the child died as a result of one of them. At this current point, they would have to prove that the child died, due to commission of the negligence charge...yes.

IMO they will add more felony charges.

 

[Threeplus1]

WAIT a minute. He KNEW by that time that his child was sitting in that heatbox for 7 hrs. So why would he think he was blue from 'choking'?

Especially given that he had searched how long it takes for a child to die when locked in a hot car. I would think had gotten an answer to his search so he would know that a child would not be alive after seven hours.

 

[RANCH]

Willfull and Wanton Conduct

Willful and wanton conduct means “acting consciously in disregard of or acting with a reckless indifference to the consequences, when the Defendant is aware of her conduct and is also aware, from her knowledge of existing circumstances and conditions, that her conduct would probably result in injury.” [Duncan v. Duncan (In re Duncan), 448 F.3d 725, 729 (4th Cir. Va. 2006)]

Key word is "aware."

http://definitions.uslegal.com/w/wilful-and-wanton-conduct/

 

[LinasK]

http://www.parents.com/baby/safety/car/danger-of-hot-car-for-children/

" Edwards brought Jenna back to the van and strapped her into her rear-facing car seat. "I was talking and singing to her," she recalls. "Five minutes into the drive Jenna started to sing in this little voice she uses when she's sleepy. I had a child-safety mirror, and when I looked in it I could see that she was going to fall asleep." Edwards thought about how much she wanted Jenna to stay asleep and finish her morning nap once she got to the babysitter's. "In a very detailed way, I visualized getting there, walking around to the backseat door, unbuckling her straps, getting her out very gingerly, and covering her ears so the babysitter's door wouldn't wake her. I pictured myself saying to the babysitter, 'Jenna's sleeping. Can I lay her in the crib?'"

For the next 15 minutes, Edwards drove toward the babysitter's. But instead of driving past her workplace and traveling another half block to the sitter's house on the next street, she pulled into her office parking lot. "I parked my car," she recalls. "My bags were in the front seat. I walked around and I got them out, and I went in to work" -- leaving Jenna in the car on a 92°F day for the next seven hours."

It is just not as crazy as it seems. It happens. It just happens. Tragically.

That was 15 minutes. This was a less than 3 min. drive- just down the block after he had physically put him into his car seat!!!:snooty: And after the research on temps of kids dying in hot cars. Not buying that it was an accident!