GA - Suspicion over heat death of Cooper, 22 mo., Cobb County, June 2014, #7

[liltexans]

Hi all, just registered but I've been lurking around here over 2 years now :blushing:

The main thing in this case that has me scratching my head right now, is the comment from police that Cooper may not have even been in the car at 9am. I have been wracking my brain trying to guess how they are thinking he could have ended up left in that car. I feel this is perhaps the most puzzling statement (of many) to come out so far.

The whole thing is baffling right now though, very eager to see what happens on Thursday.

Welcome!

:welcome:

 

[oh_gal]

Been reading along, first time to post.

First thing...I believe RH is guilty. No way he didn't see little
Cooper when he went to the car at lunch. I can see into the car in the photos taken in the lot where Cooper was "discovered."

In defense of Leanna...most Christians believe that Heaven is a beautiful, happy, safe place that makes our world seem horrid. I think LH had this in mind when she said it would be selfish to want Cooper "back." I believe she is in a state of shock and mourning, and is probably grasping at hope that he is safe and happy, especially since his death was likely painful and terrifying.

Maybe RH had left Cooper in the car before, and they'd argued about it. Maybe she researched 'kids in cars' to validate the dangers and strengthen her argument against it. She looks very loving in the photos where she is holding Cooper, and I can't believe she had anything to do with this atrocity.

And as for her words of support for RH, I think she is just in denial. They were alone together for 6 years before Cooper was born and probably very happy. She can't believe RH could do this. I expect after more info is released on Thursday, she will be far LESS supportive. She's just in shock.

And regarding the red casket: most of the photos I have seen of the Harris's have some reference to the University of Alabama. Alabama football fans are RABID. I grew up in Alabama and saw it firsthand (fortunately I escaped). The casket was red for the Crimson Tide! It would have been orange and blue if they were rabid Auburn fans. It will seem atrocious to you who don't know how some people's lives revolve around football. Tasteless and tacky, yes, but not surprising.

Cooper was probably very inconvenient for his Dad at tail-gating parties. May have even made him alter his plans from time to time. Probably couldn't have the guys over on game day like he used to. Yes, RH is a narcissist. And I believe a heartless murderer.

Welcome aboard!! :welcome:

Huh...I was hoping the casket was red because that seemed to be Cooper's favorite color. Guess it really wasn't about him, at all.

 

[Lovejac]

Hi all, just registered but I've been lurking around here over 2 years now :blushing:

The main thing in this case that has me scratching my head right now, is the comment from police that Cooper may not have even been in the car at 9am. I have been wracking my brain trying to guess how they are thinking he could have ended up left in that car. I feel this is perhaps the most puzzling statement (of many) to come out so far.

The whole thing is baffling right now though, very eager to see what happens on Thursday.

That comment was made before LE got video confirmation that he was seen at Chik-fil-a

 

[matou]

Hey there's a problem. The last thread isn't linking to this one!

 

[hopingicanhelp]

That comment was made before LE got video confirmation that he was seen at Chik-fil-a

So it was confirmed? Thank you SO much -- I kept missing it! I hate to ask but do you happen to have the link? I only ask because I've spent so much time on the media thread trying to find THAT confirmation after LE stating they couldn't confirm.... TIA!!

 

[popsicle]

Welcome aboard!! :welcome:

Huh...I was hoping the casket was red because that seemed to be Cooper's favorite color. Guess it really wasn't about him, at all.

That is what the news said.

 

[Judicious1]

NG is talking about police eying mom. And that there is survalence video catching the whole thing on tape. I have seen Nancy get it wrong from time to time so the video might just the the lunch walk to drop something off in the car.

 

[Ociboys]

If he has so many supporters, including his wife, did they bail him out?
Sorry if already discussed.

he was denied bail.

 

[Lovejac]

Been reading along, first time to post.

First thing...I believe RH is guilty. No way he didn't see little
Cooper when he went to the car at lunch. I can see into the car in the photos taken in the lot where Cooper was "discovered."

In defense of Leanna...most Christians believe that Heaven is a beautiful, happy, safe place that makes our world seem horrid. I think LH had this in mind when she said it would be selfish to want Cooper "back." I believe she is in a state of shock and mourning, and is probably grasping at hope that he is safe and happy, especially since his death was likely painful and terrifying.

Maybe RH had left Cooper in the car before, and they'd argued about it. Maybe she researched 'kids in cars' to validate the dangers and strengthen her argument against it. She looks very loving in the photos where she is holding Cooper, and I can't believe she had anything to do with this atrocity.

And as for her words of support for RH, I think she is just in denial. They were alone together for 6 years before Cooper was born and probably very happy. She can't believe RH could do this. I expect after more info is released on Thursday, she will be far LESS supportive. She's just in shock.

And regarding the red casket: most of the photos I have seen of the Harris's have some reference to the University of Alabama. Alabama football fans are RABID. I grew up in Alabama and saw it firsthand (fortunately I escaped). The casket was red for the Crimson Tide! It would have been orange and blue if they were rabid Auburn fans. It will seem atrocious to you who don't know how some people's lives revolve around football. Tasteless and tacky, yes, but not surprising.

Cooper was probably very inconvenient for his Dad at tail-gating parties. May have even made him alter his plans from time to time. Probably couldn't have the guys over on game day like he used to. Yes, RH is a narcissist. And I believe a heartless murderer.

I assumed his little casket was red because it was the first color he noticed and could say.

I sure hope that's the reason :-(

 

[Laughing]

I'm not sure what a latch connector is. Is that something that would keep a car seat from going through the windshield?

LATCH is a built-in anchor system for child passenger restraints. Two connectors in the vehicle seat, top tether for forward facing ( and the occasional rear-facing ) seats.

Lower Anchors and Tether for Children, IIRC.

You no longer need to maneuver that seatbelt through the belt path.

Check the car's owners manual and the car seat's manual or schedule a car seat check with a technician.

Use one system or the other. A couple of belt positioning boosters use both, and are the only seats tested with both systems.

The windshield is only part of the equation. The shell of the car seat is designed to absorb and distribute the forces of an accident, keeping those forces from injuring the child.

Choose to keep your child safe, choose a car seat with a higher weight and height limit, choose to use the seat as designed for each and every trip!

Yep, I'm preachy about this.

:seeya:

 

[Lovejac]

So it was confirmed? Thank you SO much -- I kept missing it! I hate to ask but do you happen to have the link? I only ask because I've spent so much time on the media thread trying to find THAT confirmation after LE stating they couldn't confirm.... TIA!!

It was in one of the search warrants. I'll find it after Nancy Grace

 

[gitana1]

As of now, I'm thrilled with the way the charges are being done. By going with 2nd degree child abuse they don't have to prove Harris did this on purpose, just that his actions were criminally negligent and caused excessive physical or mental pain.

1st degree child abuse is a 5-20 year sentence. 2nd degree is a 1-10 year bid. But it doesn't matter. If Cobb can convince a jury Harris is guilty of either child abuse, in essence they've also proven the felony murder (which carries a mandatory life sentence, I believe). They don't have to prove intent/motive/etc.

16-5-1(c) is the felony murder statute and reads, "A person also commits the offense of murder when, in the commission of a felony, he causes the death of another human being irrespective of malice."

Thank you for this. I have been wanting to post something similar but keep forgetting! I agree totally. The charges here are very smart. And I believe that once the evidence is heard, there may be a sort of reverse jury nullification. Many jurors will understand that this was likely premeditated.

But the prosecution doesn't have to prove much at all.

Interesting post, Gitana. Did you read the part about the guy whose car alarm motion detector went off 3 times and three times he got up and looked at the car, didn't see a problem, and turned the alarm off? The Post treated him (and I believe the law treated him) as if it were purely accidental - and to me, that guy had more chance to remember than Harris did. Yet he's held blameless.

And I think he didn't remember. I really do. I think he didn't put the motion detector together with the fact his baby was in the car.

Which actually makes it worse. It's worse that he was given THREE signals. Just as Harris had the chance to see his baby at noon, but didn't. That's worse than not having a close call with almost saving the child.

Like I said, I read the entire article.

No way in H E double hockey sticks did that man have more chance to remember than Harris did. It was a car alarm, friend. Car alarms sound all the time for no reason at all. I would imagine a leaf blew up against it. Now, if it had been a car seat motion detector, I would think the man should be brought up on murder charges, but it was not.

Let's review the facts here. In none of the cases we read did the people have three, spearate contacst in and out of their car involving their baby!!! In none of the cases in that article did the parents actually research the tragedy the day or two before it occurred!! Give me a break!!!

And although it didn't say, I will bet you big time that in none of those cases was it a mere three damn minutes from the time they last strapped their kid into his or her car seat until the time they forgot the child was there.

You know something, JeannaT, you've been very polite on these threads despite an onslaught of incredible and sometimes quite angry opposition from the majority. You have remained steadfast and calm. I respect you and your opinion.

But nothing you can say will change my mind about this case at this point unless totally different facts arise. I believe that common sense and the facts we are aware of show that Ross Harris is a murderer.

 

[Sonya610]

Why not start a program in the schools that teaches this to kids, who then make "Don't Forget the Baby!" signs to attach in the front seats of cars whose owners have little kids.

Signs won't do it. A shoe or a purse WILL do it.

 

[Lovejac]

NG just said from Chik-fil-a to Coopers day care it takes 1minute and 20 seconds

 

[tlcya]

coffin red = seems to fit with his recent fascination with the color red. I prefer to think that was the reason. So much seemed about Riss. I know it can be reasonably argued that those gathered were trying to include Cooper's dad. But with applause and whatnot, it bothered me how big a role they had him play given the circumstances.

But the coffin red, I can see where that can be totally about Cooper and would prefer to.

 

[NancyA]

I assumed his little casket was red because it was the first color he noticed and could say.

I sure hope that's the reason :-(

I think that's what I'm choosing to believe too. You're not the only one who remembers his mother saying he'd just learned the colour red - "hi red car, bye red car". That's good enough for me, I can find plenty of other reasons to despise this father, I don't need any more so I'd rather let Cooper have this one. The coffin was red because Cooper liked red.

 

[Ociboys]

No one is going to like what I have to say here.

I read the whole thing, too. It is intense and yes, thought provoking. It does support my belief that sometimes accidents can happen. Sometimes, hideous tragedies can happen to incredibly good parents. Including forgetting a baby who is left to broil to death in a car.

I clearly remember the case of the Irvine professor. I remember when that happened and have been thinking about it since this case made the news. I felt horrified by what had happened and horrified for the professor when it occurred. I did not think he should've been prosecuted and I was glad when he was not. That man was destroyed by his forgetfulness. It was awful.

I especially liked this part of the article: I've often had that thought - that people are unduly harsh regarding various cases - usually instantly blaming parents when their kids get kidnapped, for not watching them properly, for example - because it creates an illusion of safety that it can never happen to them. I just never saw a psychologist support that feeling.

But let me also say this: None of what is in that article, none of what I read there, changes my mind about the father in this case and his culpability.

---Research on hot car deaths of children a day or so before his baby died in a hot car.

---3 separate contacts with his child, in the span of an hour from when he "forgot", placing him in and taking him out of the car he eventually left him in. 3, separate contacts involving his baby and his car, that very morning.

---3 minutes. 3 Minutes.

I'm sorry. There's no way. This case shares nothing with those featured in the articles, except that a baby died in a hot car.

Giatna1, Your posts give me a fresh perspective to think openly.

 

[gitana1]

"Justin Ross Harris is currently behind bars, facing charges of second-degree cruelty to a child and felony murder. He has pleaded not guilty."

Here's what to expect from Thursday's hearing, as explained by criminal defense attorney Philip Holloway (who works in the same county where Harris faces charges):

This is a preliminary hearing, which is usually called a "probable cause" hearing.
The burden of proof will be on the prosecutors. It's their responsibility to prove to a judge that a crime was probably committed in this case and that the person who likely committed that crime was Harris.
Hearsay (or information that someone gets from someone else and can't substantiate themselves) will be allowed.
There will not be a jury present but, instead, a magistrate judge. This judge will not end up being the trial judge (a Superior Court judge will be assigned later if the case goes to trial).
The judge will hear testimony from a police officer (usually the lead investigator in the case), who is expected to be the prosecution's only witness.
That witness will be subject to cross-examination by the defense team.
If the judge decides that the prosecution has met its burden, then he or she will permit the case to proceed to a grand jury.
The grand jury may be asked by the district attorney to return an indictment -- or the ultimate charging document -- with the same charges Harris currently faces or with different charges (the warrants in the case right now are preliminary charging documents only -- the indictment will replace them).
The issue of bail is also expected to be addressed at this hearing (Harris is currently behind bars without bail).
While the defense isn't expected to call any witnesses on the issue of probable cause, they may choose to call some character witnesses to make an argument as to why Harris should be released on bond.
Cameras will be allowed inside the courtroom for Thursday's hearing. HLN will bring you live coverage starting at 1:30 p.m. ET.

http://www.hlntv.com/article/2014/0...oddler-death-justin-ross-harris-hearing-court

I think the chances are good that:

1. The probable cause hearing will be continued.
2. A bail amount may be set (even though this is a capital case).

Respectfully snipped by me.

Loved your post and your analysis is spot on as usual.

What do you mean by 3 minutes?

It was approximately three minutes from the time he last strapped his baby into the car seat (for the second time that morning), until he arrived at work.

 

[Lovejac]

I think that's what I'm choosing to believe too. You're not the only one who remembers his mother saying he'd just learned the colour red - "hi red car, bye red car". That's good enough for me, I can find plenty of other reasons to despise this father, I don't need any more so I'd rather let Cooper have this one. The coffin was red because Cooper liked red.

Me too. That's good enough for me:loveyou:

 

[SStarr33]

http://www.myfoxatlanta.com/story/25919400/cobb-toddler-death-retracing-the-fathers-steps

Mr. Harris drove to his office at Home Depot which took FOX 5 three minutes and 14 seconds to time.

According to police, in that time, Mr. Harris said he forgot about his son and went inside to work. Court records show Mr. Harris went back to his car to put something in it 2-and-a-half hours later.

Two different law enforcement sources tell FOX 5 during that lunch hour Mr. Harris left his work property to go out to lunch, but didn’t take his car.