General Discussion and Theories

[axe2grind]

Why did DM and MS, together, park the Yukon somewhere other than TB's driveway?

My take on it is they parked/left the Yukon out of site because they assumed that was the most identifiable feature of their visit, that no one would have seen their faces/features enough to be identified later... just two guys...no vehicle visible.

If there were only two of them, and they were planning on NOT coming back with Tim's truck, why would they BOTH go to the door? Why not MS just drop off DM around the corner from TB's and then wait for the test drive to stop at a designated spot? Then there would only be one person to try and ID later, not two.

 

[Archangel7]

Perhaps they have various blood samples that they would want to compare it to .. see which samples belong to either victim or perp

Yes, serology is important and quicker than DNA. IMO

 

[Archangel7]

My take on it is they parked/left the Yukon out of site because they assumed that was the most identifiable feature of their visit, that no one would have seen their faces/features enough to be identified later... just two guys...no vehicle visible.

If there were only two of them, and they were planning on NOT coming back with Tim's truck, why would they BOTH go to the door? Why not MS just drop off DM around the corner from TB's and then wait for the test drive to stop at a designated spot? Then there would only be one person to try and ID later, not two.

Strength in numbers, two against one?
A second unexpected interested party showing up on a test drive would invite problem?

 

[axe2grind]

Strength in numbers, two against one?
A second unexpected interested party showing up on a test drive would invite problem?

Two against one if they didn't have the Yukon following them... I'm just trying to imagine how the scenario would work with just two people, and with what little information we have to go on.

I agree that two people showing up for a test drive, if only one was expected, that would be unexpected and draw attention, and I would think they would want to not draw attention to anything unexpected...

If only DM went for the test drive, and MS was equally involved but we only knew of one suspect coming to the door, the police may never have even known to be on the look-out for suspect #2.

 

[Archangel7]

Two against one if they didn't have the Yukon following them... I'm just trying to imagine how the scenario would work with just two people, and with what little information we have to go on.

I agree that two people showing up for a test drive, if only one was expected, that would be unexpected and draw attention, and I would think they would want to not draw attention to anything unexpected...

If only DM went for the test drive, and MS was equally involved but we only knew of one suspect coming to the door, the police may never have even known to be on the look-out for suspect #2.

I know, quite puzzling isn't it. I can put forth a pretty good case for a setup, one for a double cross and a couple for carjack/theft/murder.

The problem with my setup scenario is, usually the prize, benefit, or end result is of much greater benefit or significance to the benefactor(whomever that is) than simply taking a good Christian man from his wife and family for a truck. However, I have seen worse murders for less gain andreason so......JMO

 

[Eldee]

Just as an aside, I was watching the TLC show Counting Cars last night, and the two owners were out looking for cars to buy. They pull up to a house where there is an older Chevelle and knock on the door. Guy comes out and says yes the car is for sale, and the stars of the show ask to go on a test drive with him. This is America remember.... The guy says ,,,,, you buy the car you can drive it anywhere you want.
Me thinks this attitude will be coming to Canada soon. We are way too trusting. I feel a change is a comin'

 

[Factoria]

My take on it is they parked/left the Yukon out of site because they assumed that was the most identifiable feature of their visit, that no one would have seen their faces/features enough to be identified later... just two guys...no vehicle visible.

If there were only two of them, and they were planning on NOT coming back with Tim's truck, why would they BOTH go to the door? Why not MS just drop off DM around the corner from TB's and then wait for the test drive to stop at a designated spot? Then there would only be one person to try and ID later, not two.

<bbm>

Great point! It's surprising we haven't really had any at length discussion about this before. Why on earth did two perpetrators make themselves visible to witnesses? It does seem to make it more difficult to believe that there were not at least three suspects involved, IMO. Particularly so if their intentions were nefarious from the onset. If there were just two, wouldn't it make more sense for only one to get into the truck and the other follow in the tailing vehicle? Assuming that reports of evidence that there was, indeed, a vehicle tailing TB's Ram, it seems truly odd that two people got into TB's truck with him, regardless of how many people were involved, actually. MOO

 

[SleuthK]

I think that the passenger locks went on from the get go and that probably set the mood that something was going terribly wrong. There is nothing worse than thinking you are trapped. In this situation, things could have escalated very fast.

I have an '04 Ram and the doors lock automatically at 25km/hr, its a safety feature (stops people getting in when stopping). Lifting the handle from the inside unlocks the door (unless the child lock is turned on, but this is only on the rear doors).

That said, TB could have jumped out if he had the chance or knowledge to do so, he was never locked in because of the doors. He likely didn't know it (MS) was coming.

 

[Archangel7]

<bbm>

Great point! It's surprising we haven't really had any at length discussion about this before. Why on earth did two perpetrators make themselves visible to witnesses? It does seem to make it more difficult to believe that there were not at least three suspects involved, IMO. Particularly so if their intentions were nefarious from the onset. If there were just two, wouldn't it make more sense for only one to get into the truck and the other follow in the tailing vehicle? Assuming that reports of evidence that there was, indeed, a vehicle tailing TB's Ram, it seems truly odd that two people got into TB's truck with him, regardless of how many people were involved, actually. MOO

If you think about it like this...that you can't kill easily while driving, then you need two people. One is driving and one in the back seat behind TB.

If you accept this way of planning, then you must both go to door initially, if not and you have the second appear suddenly from nowhere during the test drive, it complicates things and likely tips the target.

The one driving controls the situation somewhat with window locks etc. and the person behind TB is in position to use any means. IMO

 

[Factoria]

If you think about it like this...that you can't kill easily while driving, then you need two people. One is driving and one in the back seat behind TB.

If you accept this way of planning, then you must both go to door initially, if not and you have the second appear suddenly from nowhere during the test drive, it complicates things and likely tips the target.

The one driving controls the situation somewhat with window locks etc. and the person behind TB is in position to use any means. IMO

I agree with you that, if the plan from the get-go was for one to kill TB in the truck while one drove, both people would need to get into the truck at the start of the test drive. However, wouldn't it have been much easier to feign a car-jacking or some other scenario, or plan a stop along the route to 'check out under the hood', and overtake the owner at that point? I know, I know... assuming that a murderer uses logic or common sense is rather pointless. JMO

 

[ArianeEmory]

I agree with you that, if the plan from the get-go was for one to kill TB in the truck while one drove, both people would need to get into the truck at the start of the test drive. However, wouldn't it have been much easier to feign a car-jacking or some other scenario, or plan a stop along the route to 'check out under the hood', and overtake the owner at that point? I know, I know... assuming that a murderer uses logic or common sense is rather pointless. JMO

I think it's not so much lack of common sense as it was a sense of invincibility.

 

[Snoofo]

If you think about it like this...that you can't kill easily while driving, then you need two people. One is driving and one in the back seat behind TB.

If you accept this way of planning, then you must both go to door initially, if not and you have the second appear suddenly from nowhere during the test drive, it complicates things and likely tips the target.

The one driving controls the situation somewhat with window locks etc. and the person behind TB is in position to use any means. IMO

LE's latest position that Smich may have gotten into the Yukon leaving Bosma's makez no sense and this seals it for me.
If he was to get in tje Yukon and follow then there'd be no reason for him to arrive at the door.
If he was in the Yukon how could TB not defend himself against someone driving the truck beside him. MS had to have been there from the start and there is definitely a third suspect OR the Yukon simply wasnt there - maybe their ride was still just an umidentifiable automobile as in the earlier reports? LE really confused me with that.Kavanagh all but said "we have no clue".

 

[Claroon]

General Discussion:

Just sleuthing around--this is of no consequence, just interest. Not sure if anyone pointed this out before.

(I won't post links in case I'm not supposed to), but on Trip Advisor I saw a photo of the inside of Tugger's Sweet Shoppe in Augusta, WI and I thought--wow, looks like the background in the photo of DM released by MSM where he was holding a straw and sporting a red-tipped mohawk haircut. I blew up the DM photo and saw a billboard for UFC (Ultimate Fighting Championship) in the background behind DM and googled the event. Sure enough, the UFC made its debut there Aug 2011. One of the fighters Dan Hardy sported a red-tipped mohawk at that event.

 

[bessie]

Two important items to notes here:

1. Individuals who have been cleared by LE are OFF LIMITS.

2. Before you link to an item about a particular person, MAKE CERTAIN it is the right person. Even unusual names can be shared by multiple people, and in the same area.

 

[Archangel7]

LE's latest position that Smich may have gotten into the Yukon leaving Bosma's makez no sense and this seals it for me.
If he was to get in tje Yukon and follow then there'd be no reason for him to arrive at the door.
If he was in the Yukon how could TB not defend himself against someone driving the truck beside him. MS had to have been there from the start and there is definitely a third suspect OR the Yukon simply wasnt there - maybe their ride was still just an umidentifiable automobile as in the earlier reports? LE really confused me with that.Kavanagh all but said "we have no clue".

I Know what you mean....maybe he was needed for the kill and the Yukon was for him or DM in the separation afterward(where one goes one way to drop the body and truck and a the other follows, provides the ride after TB&truck were hidden?

 

[Pink Panther]

LE's latest position that Smich may have gotten into the Yukon leaving Bosma's makez no sense and this seals it for me.
If he was to get in tje Yukon and follow then there'd be no reason for him to arrive at the door.
If he was in the Yukon how could TB not defend himself against someone driving the truck beside him. MS had to have been there from the start and there is definitely a third suspect OR the Yukon simply wasnt there - maybe their ride was still just an umidentifiable automobile as in the earlier reports? LE really confused me with that.Kavanagh all but said "we have no clue".

I agree. He basically said he had no clue. Not good imo.

moo

 

[Claroon]

General Discussion:

Just sleuthing around--this is of no consequence, just interest. Not sure if anyone pointed this out before.

(I won't post links in case I'm not supposed to), but on Trip Advisor I saw a photo of the inside of Tugger's Sweet Shoppe in Augusta, WI and I thought--wow, looks like the background in the photo of DM released by MSM where he was holding a straw and sporting a red-tipped mohawk haircut. I blew up the DM photo and saw a billboard for UFC (Ultimate Fighting Championship) in the background behind DM and googled the event. Sure enough, the UFC made its debut there Aug 2011. One of the fighters Dan Hardy sported a red-tipped mohawk at that event.

Sorry, others have pointed out they don't believe it was this particular place. Still, the UFC poster and his hair likeness to Dan "The Outlaw" Hardy is a little interesting, but not probably valuable to a case. IMO

 

[ReignBRF]

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...o_suspects_in_spate_of_luxury_car_thefts.html
I have been following the postings on this site for a while more as a quick source to keep updated on any news..I have read some very interesting theories about the case but I wonder if this isn't being over thought. I am of the mindset that it was a simple car jack gone wrong..plain and simple. There is a good chance that Tim panicked and jumped from the moving vehicle when he realized what was going down. He may have been badly hurt or killed, then put into the back of the truck, they backtracked to pick up the second vehicle and then with no clear cut plan drove away with Tim..what followed is pretty clear..a couple of punks trying to get rid of the evidence..I couldn't help but notice the resemblance between the video of a high end car thief that the TPD was seeking public assistance in Dec 2012 and MS. It would make sense that DM would have connections to this social set and be aware of vacations and what not..JMO

I find the link you posted very interesting with the proximity of Burnhamthorpe Road in Mississauga. In the photo of one of the car thieves, if you notice they have a shaved head and appear to be rather chunky. I wonder if some of these victims had unrecognizable phone calls showing on their phone bills. Certainly falls in line with my thinking that some vehicles left the country in one piece, with destination of overseas. I always have thought this from the beginning. Why has this person's photo not been plastered over everywhere.

 

[Pink Panther]

I find the link you posted very interesting with the proximity of Burnhamthorpe Road in Mississauga. In the photo of one of the car thieves, if you notice they have a shaved head and appear to be rather chunky. I wonder if some of these victims had unrecognizable phone calls showing on their phone bills. Certainly falls in line with my thinking that some vehicles left the country in one piece, with destination of overseas. I always have thought this from the beginning. Why has this person's photo not been plastered over everywhere.

A few more links that are similarly interesting:

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/01/08/daring-luxury-car-thieves-were-like-gone-in-sixty-seconds

http://www.yorkregion.com/news-story/1935242-crime-drops-after-thief-s-capture-court-hears/

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/09/15/police-foil-high-end-car-thefts

 

[LogicalThinker]

"A few more links that are similarly interesting:

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/01/08...-sixty-seconds

http://www.yorkregion.com/news-story...e-court-hears/

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/09/15...end-car-thefts"

These cases were from 2011 and solved as is mentioned in the first article from the sun-sixty seconds
the one I was referring to was/is ongoing and the TPD was/is seeking assistance as of Dec 2012. I can't find any reference to an arrest in this particular case... compare the pic of MS at his sisters wedding chewing on a cigar...you will notice a marked resemblance to the guy in the pic with the shaved head who is only looking a tad chunky due to a winter jacket..
http://www.cp24.com/news/thieves-targeted-high-end-vehicles-in-toronto-1.1068659
I also thought you sleuthers might find the following link interesting..make of it what you will..lol. #2
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=millard