General Discussion Thread #2

[Estelle]

The BBC doc, later today--including iplayer ready to go at 2100:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01rb2y0

Of course, without the forensics, autopsy etc, they are speculating as we are. Some have already objected to the title: "What really happened."

But there will be new things: "Featuring special 3-D graphics, sworn testimony and exclusive interviews, the film attempts to give the most complete picture yet of what may have happened in Oscar Pistorius's apartment in the early hours of February 14th"

Update: Does anyone know if that will viewable to all? Or are some countries blocked? One has to listen live at those times?

TIA

I have now downloaded the BBC iplayer after a lot of fiddling around and it appears that you can view programmes up to 30 days. It will be available live at 8am Sydney time Monday.

Otherwise it may be available on U-Tube later.

Otherwise I will be relying on some of you in the UK who can get it to tell us all about it.

 

[liverpoollou]

Anyone read this?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-suicidal-reveals-best-1753776

I'll watch the programme tomorrow?

 

[shane13]

Oscar's Dad, Grandad and 3 uncles own 55 [known] guns. That's an avg of 11 [known] guns per each.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...vernment-won-protect-whites-article-1.1279832

I am not against gun ownership per se. Only wish to reiterate what I wrote earlier.
At his uncle's mansion, OP likely has or could have, access to guns, in case he...

 

[liverpoollou]

To me, we have major news in the case--if these excerpts are factual.
The history of this though is that police may not be telling media the truth, so...

But we learn that 1 witness is much closer than the 600 meters first said, and clser still to the 300 me he changed it to. Botha may be geometrically challenged or was told to fiddle with testimony.

So 150 m is 1/4th of what Botha said. And less likely that the defense can say it is too far from the house to have meaning.

There is much implied in that the bullet found in the toilet had both blood and brain on it.

It could have fallen out as he picked her up to carry down the stairs. I wonder if it implies that it was not too deep in her head?

Recall I gave a sort of worst case scenario, where he had aleady bashed her head in with a bat, and shot her in that area to try to hide the first wound--after perhaps carrying her dead/dying body to the toilet after concocting the final coverup scenario after the 17 minute gap.

I will have more on this, as you all should too.

I had the same scenio.....I changed my mind when it was pointed out to me that Reeva was alive for sometime after the shooting and died in the arms of Oscar in the hallway.

Now I have recently read that the Defence are saying she was dead by the time Oscar reached the bottom of the stairs.........why would they say that? I think because she was dead when he picked her up.

The part about the bathroom door opening inwards........of course she would have a bashed in skull from the cricket bat, her slumped body was against the door while Oscar was bashing the lock with the bat. To me that is what is implied............Don't believe it though.

 

[Estelle]

"Neighbours claim Pistorius was found next to her body in the bathroom"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ged-murder-Reeva-Steenkamp.html#ixzz2N7qDEFmb

I know it is the Daily Mail, Shane, but I found this little snippet which I thought was of interest.

This is about what I thought would have happened. Why? Because IMO she was already dead when in the toilet then he did those last three shots through the door to support the intruder story after the 17 minutes. The neighbours and the security guards would have been over quickly as they had already heard screaming for an hour and at least one shot. Was his front door open or would security guards have had a key to get in? I can just imagine them walking up the stairs and catching him in the bathroom like this as he might have been in shock about what he had just done and what was going to happen next. IMO he then carried her down the stairs pretending she was still alive and and had to get her to the hospital fast. Then at some stage gave her CPR knowing she was already dead. Then he said she died in my arms for dramatic hero effect and because he did not want police finding out where she actually was. So everyone now believes that she was still alive when he carried her down the stairs. I remember DriveBy gave us his opinion that she must have been alive for 30 mintutes due to the blood but I do not think so as he cannot prove that but nor can I prove what I have just said. It is just my gut feeling knowing what a liar he is."

 

[liverpoollou]

I'm hoping those of you who have access to it watch the film and report back.

Oscar Pistorius: What really Happened?
Tomorrow, BBC3, 9pm

.

I have access I have already marked it for recording on Sky Plus....will report back.

 

[liverpoollou]

I believe Botha was told to fiddle with his testimony-money

I never knew this!

Not sure about Botha fiddling.....I recently read that he said the Bail Hearing was not what he had expected, it turned out more like a Trial and he didn't know all the answers to questions put to him because forensics were not ready for him to fall back on. In the article he said The Bail hearing was like a game of poker where you don't show your hand.....not like a Trial.

 

[katydid23]

"Neighbours claim Pistorius was found next to her body in the bathroom"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ged-murder-Reeva-Steenkamp.html#ixzz2N7qDEFmb

I know it is the Daily Mail, Shane, but I found this little snippet which I thought was of interest.

This is about what I thought would have happened. Why? Because IMO she was already dead when in the toilet then he did those last three shots through the door to support the intruder story after the 17 minutes. The neighbours and the security guards would have been over quickly as they had already heard screaming for an hour and at least one shot. Was his front door open or would security guards have had a key to get in? I can just imagine them walking up the stairs and catching him in the bathroom like this as he might have been in shock about what he had just done and what was going to happen next. IMO he then carried her down the stairs pretending she was still alive and and had to get her to the hospital fast. Then at some stage gave her CPR knowing she was already dead. Then he said she died in my arms for dramatic hero effect and because he did not want police finding out where she actually was. So everyone now believes that she was still alive when he carried her down the stairs. I remember DriveBy gave us his opinion that she must have been alive for 30 mintutes due to the blood but I do not think so as he cannot prove that but nor can I prove what I have just said. It is just my gut feeling knowing what a liar he is."

This excerpt is very annoying to read:

The source told The Sun: 'He's been given a cell to himself at the police station but there are criminals in cells around him and he doesn't belong there. There are police concerns over his mental state.'



Who says he doesn't 'belong' there?

 

[liverpoollou]

"Neighbours claim Pistorius was found next to her body in the bathroom"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ged-murder-Reeva-Steenkamp.html#ixzz2N7qDEFmb

I know it is the Daily Mail, Shane, but I found this little snippet which I thought was of interest.

This is about what I thought would have happened. Why? Because IMO she was already dead when in the toilet then he did those last three shots through the door to support the intruder story after the 17 minutes. The neighbours and the security guards would have been over quickly as they had already heard screaming for an hour and at least one shot. Was his front door open or would security guards have had a key to get in? I can just imagine them walking up the stairs and catching him in the bathroom like this as he might have been in shock about what he had just done and what was going to happen next. IMO he then carried her down the stairs pretending she was still alive and and had to get her to the hospital fast. Then at some stage gave her CPR knowing she was already dead. Then he said she died in my arms for dramatic hero effect and because he did not want police finding out where she actually was. So everyone now believes that she was still alive when he carried her down the stairs. I remember DriveBy gave us his opinion that she must have been alive for 30 mintutes due to the blood but I do not think so as he cannot prove that but nor can I prove what I have just said. It is just my gut feeling knowing what a liar he is."

Exactly what I thought......I waivered because of the 30mins when she was alive and because of my ignorance about the bodily functions of dead people.
Even the Defence are now saying she was dead by the time Oscar reached the bottom of the stairs.....that could easily mean by the time he picked her up from the bathroom, I mean it is only his word she had signs of life when he bashed the door down. If he was giving First Aid to her because he thought she was still alive, how come "she died in my arms" surely his arms were need for the first aid he was giving.

 

[Estelle]

This is what Candice Leigh said about the Mirror article from his so-called friend.

This could be her here. www.candiceleigh.co.za/

Candice Leigh 1:29 AM on 10/3/2013

"This is the FIFTH person to declare themselves Oscar Pistorius' "best friend" since the start of the case and the most ridiculous yet. Just another out for his 15 minutes, pay cheque and self-promotion out of this tragedy. This guy is as close to Oscar as I am to the Queen. Funnily enough, Oscar's real best friend has not spoken to the media.

In addition to which the article contains more inaccuracies than it's possible to detail without totally rewriting it.

The witness who claimed to have heard shots and screaming has not just come forward. She came forward before the bail hearing. She does not live 150 metres from the house. She kives 300 metres as stated during the bail hearing and even this was originally stated as 600 metres.

The toilet door opened inwards. Is this unusual? Reeva may have used her body to hold it shut? OR she may simply have fallen against the door after being shot in the head.

Police revealed that they are looking at the phones? Really? They've been doing that since the incident and it was confirmed on Wednesday that no incriminating texts or calls had been found and that only WhatsApp and BBM were left to be checked.

Really, is anything in this article actually reported accurately or anything we don't already know?

The police intend to push for a full murder charge? Well I never! The fact is that without a motive and with, as yet, no evidence with which to prove murder, unless they are able to find this pretty soon, they will have no choice but to accept a lesser plea as to push for murder without the above will only lead to an acquittal.

Perhaps it may be an idea to resist the urge to keep writing about this case three weeks on and wait until there are actual new developments and, in the meantime, perhaps stop referring to each and everybody distant acquaintance of Oscar Pistorius who simply wants to make a fast buck as his "best friend", otherwise I may as well be billing myself as that."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-suicidal-reveals-best-1753776#comments

 

[liverpoollou]

Find me the world's smallest violin.

Oscar feels suicidal? Because he knows pre-meditated murder will be proved in court? Because his legal fees are mounting? Because he doesn't like his bail conditions? Because for once he's not in total control? I highly doubt it has anything to do with shootind dead his innocent and defenceless girlfriend. If anything, he sees himself as the victim, and Reeva's death as just an irritating consequence of the 'accident'.

The indignance and arrogance in this quote from his statement is staggering:

“I fail to understand how I could be charged with murder,
let alone premeditated murder because I had no intention to kill my girlfriend,”

He fails to understand as in fails to see? There are several things he 'fails' to see. Perhaps he should have gone to Specsavers.

I think he blames Reeva for putting him in his awful situation, I mean it was she who phoned and asked to spend the evening together.....If Reeva hadn't have done that none of this would have happened.

 

[Estelle]

This excerpt is very annoying to read:

The source told The Sun: 'He's been given a cell to himself at the police station but there are criminals in cells around him and he doesn't belong there. There are police concerns over his mental state.'


Who says he doesn't 'belong' there?

I noticed that comment too. Being a narcissist, I guess he thinks he is entitled to special treatment and thinks he will be acquitted as it was only an intruder.

 

[Estelle]

Another comment on Mirror article.

"Oh yeah like we don't already know that anything said by friends and family of OP is handled and carefully crafted as a public relations exercise. They will do and say anything to make him look innocent and get the public on his side.

He is guilty and I hope he goes down for a long time. What does he expect, that if he says sorry and it was a terrible accident that he will get off with a slap on the wrist.

He killed a woman for God's sake, nothing short of life in prison will do and even that won't bring her back. If he is so paranoid a slight movement is enough to make him reach for his gun he could do it to the next woman unfortunate enough to date him, if he is allowed to get away with it and not given a prison sentence. He really is arrogant enough to think he will survive and avoid a life in the clink."

 

[Estelle]

Another comment on Mirror article

"It is astounding that a South African company VUMA REPUTATION MANAGEMENT http://www.vumareputation.com/ is earning money supporting Oscar Pistorius, cleaning up his website and making him look like some type of hero and collecting messages of support for him.

VUMA REPUTATION MANAGEMENT whose name is all over his website should be boycotted by all clear thinking South Africans, Its owner Janine Hills should be called to account. This company's strategic partners REPUTATION INSTITUTE, ETHICS MONITORING & MANAGEMENT SERVICES (PTY) LTD, ELOQUENCE PUBLIC SPEAKING, TIMOTHY MAURICE WEBSTER, INDUBE STAFFING and THEWINWINGROUP all need to make clear where they stand on this issue. The conduct of this company is an absolute disgrace."

 

[whiterum]

By OP version it's seem he only heard the noise when he finished all the tasks (brought fan, closed door, put blinds and curtains) which is impossible coz he already was 1 meter from bed where they slept and he would rather heard her getting out of bed then, or walking towards bathroom. He can't claim he heard the noise while on balcony, because then he wouldn't be able to finish other tasks so he could claim that room was "pitch black"?
Doesn't his affidavit contradicts it's self?

Also almost right on the button, as soon as he closes the curtains and the room is pitch black he hears the noise. Doesn't even give a thought to the fact that he may have awoken RS with any noise and movement he was making by getting up from bed, going out to balcony etc. Anyone's first thought would be on hearing a noise, that I must have awoken my partner with my activity and it is her who is using the bathroom and checked before going and shooting through the toilet door. Totally implausible his whole intruder story IMO.

 

[shane13]

"Neighbours claim Pistorius was found next to her body in the bathroom"

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ged-murder-Reeva-Steenkamp.html#ixzz2N7qDEFmb

I know it is the Daily Mail, Shane, but I found this little snippet which I thought was of interest.

This is about what I thought would have happened. Why? Because IMO she was already dead when in the toilet then he did those last three shots through the door to support the intruder story after the 17 minutes. The neighbours and the security guards would have been over quickly as they had already heard screaming for an hour and at least one shot. Was his front door open or would security guards have had a key to get in? I can just imagine them walking up the stairs and catching him in the bathroom like this as he might have been in shock about what he had just done and what was going to happen next. IMO he then carried her down the stairs pretending she was still alive and and had to get her to the hospital fast. Then at some stage gave her CPR knowing she was already dead. Then he said she died in my arms for dramatic hero effect and because he did not want police finding out where she actually was. So everyone now believes that she was still alive when he carried her down the stairs. I remember DriveBy gave us his opinion that she must have been alive for 30 mintutes due to the blood but I do not think so as he cannot prove that but nor can I prove what I have just said. It is just my gut feeling knowing what a liar he is."

Well, Estelle, that's old from Feb 15. Which does not necessarilly relate to veracity, one way or the other.

It includes that security guards rushed over when they heard shots. But supposedly the first one(s) fired were 17 minutes before the final ones. I've written if someone arrived before he started his coverup, she might either be alive (though possibly vegetative) or else he would have been caught in the act.

The earwitness statements came out a week or so IIRC after the murder. I am not interested in OP's scenario being used as a basis for anything else, or anyone's religious regurgitation of the same.

No one would carry her. If someone is extremely wounded, unless trained one will prob make her worse by such action--and you can't be doing CPR while carrying. Either wait for experienced personnel, or at best attempt CPR where she lay. We both know the reason why he wanted to carry her--he probably already had.

 

[shane13]

The Hip Shot

I will write perhaps another first here.

A plausibility argument on the (initial) hip shot.

Some first reports, such as in City Press--whose editor said "several police sources" vetted everything he has written-- had the hip shot as occurring in the bedroom and either being the 1st assault or immediately after a bat strike.

Police or forensics people who told this to the press perhaps based that on the following. Tremendous bleeding from that hip shot, as the heart was strong at that point. Later shots had minimal bleeding due to either weak heart, or brain, or previous blood loss from 1st shot--again after 17 minutes of NOT being treated by the scheming OP.

 

[whiterum]

This is what Candice Leigh said about the Mirror article from his so-called friend.

This could be her here. www.candiceleigh.co.za/

Candice Leigh 1:29 AM on 10/3/2013

"This is the FIFTH person to declare themselves Oscar Pistorius' "best friend" since the start of the case and the most ridiculous yet. Just another out for his 15 minutes, pay cheque and self-promotion out of this tragedy. This guy is as close to Oscar as I am to the Queen. Funnily enough, Oscar's real best friend has not spoken to the media.

In addition to which the article contains more inaccuracies than it's possible to detail without totally rewriting it.

The witness who claimed to have heard shots and screaming has not just come forward. She came forward before the bail hearing. She does not live 150 metres from the house. She kives 300 metres as stated during the bail hearing and even this was originally stated as 600 metres.

The toilet door opened inwards. Is this unusual? Reeva may have used her body to hold it shut? OR she may simply have fallen against the door after being shot in the head.

Police revealed that they are looking at the phones? Really? They've been doing that since the incident and it was confirmed on Wednesday that no incriminating texts or calls had been found and that only WhatsApp and BBM were left to be checked.

Really, is anything in this article actually reported accurately or anything we don't already know?

The police intend to push for a full murder charge? Well I never! The fact is that without a motive and with, as yet, no evidence with which to prove murder, unless they are able to find this pretty soon, they will have no choice but to accept a lesser plea as to push for murder without the above will only lead to an acquittal.

Perhaps it may be an idea to resist the urge to keep writing about this case three weeks on and wait until there are actual new developments and, in the meantime, perhaps stop referring to each and everybody distant acquaintance of Oscar Pistorius who simply wants to make a fast buck as his "best friend", otherwise I may as well be billing myself as that."

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-suicidal-reveals-best-1753776#comments

There is a woman who has posted on the Justice for RS website and other websites with a very similar , almost identical, name and site address trying to rubbish RS, causing a backlash from posters on a number of sites. Think those derogatory posts against RS and pro OP have been removed a while back, not sure though. Perhaps if is the same woman she has her own agenda .

 

[DriveBy]

I had the same scenio.....I changed my mind when it was pointed out to me that Reeva was alive for sometime after the shooting and died in the arms of Oscar in the hallway.

Now I have recently read that the Defence are saying she was dead by the time Oscar reached the bottom of the stairs.........why would they say that? I think because she was dead when he picked her up.

The part about the bathroom door opening inwards........of course she would have a bashed in skull from the cricket bat, her slumped body was against the door while Oscar was bashing the lock with the bat. To me that is what is implied............Don't believe it though.

BIB "the Defence are saying" Be careful with what the defense says, their job is to spin something to frame OP's story in a "plausible" way.... The investigators are only charged with finding facts.

 

[LauraT]

And all that fits with reports that were said to come from the police that she was shot first in the hip in the bedroom. Next to nothing is a definitive source--including what you would like to be the whole Universe--the scantiness released by the Pros at bail hearing.

And fits with the scenario that she may have been placed on the toilet which is why he needed to carry her afterwards.

Botha has well indicated since that the Pros. tries in general, to release as little as possible, and would have little to do with what will come out during trial.

I agree, I believe the reason he had to move her was because she was actually shot elsewhere prior to fleeing to the toilet (if she actually ever did get that far)and he had to be able to explain why there is blood in areas there shouldn't be! Who knows maybe she was fleeing down the stairs and was shot in the back of the head...