General Discussion Thread #2

[popsicle]

If you look at the photos of Reeva arriving in her car, you can see in the picture with her hand to her face that the black thing is a seat belt and she has on what appears to be a light colored blouse.

Pistols typically eject the shell casing to the right and can land anywhere from 2 to 20 ft away.

Not directing this at anyone ...when posting information from somewhere please link it for others and remember copyright and WS rules about only quoting 10%.

 

[21merc7]

If you look at the photos of Reeva arriving in her car, you can see in the picture with her hand to her face that the black thing is a seat belt and she has on what appears to be a light colored blouse.

Pistols typically eject the shell casing to the right and can land anywhere from 2 to 20 ft away.

Not directing this at anyone ...when posting information from somewhere please link it for others and remember copyright and WS rules about only quoting 10%.

I'm still curious how a casing or whole unshot bullet (bullet cartridge-still not sure what that means in SA), whichever it may be, got into the toilet through the closed door.

I don't recall if the defense said it was a 9mm "bullet cartridge" or not either.

 

[popsicle]

I'm still curious how a casing or whole unshot bullet (bullet cartridge-still not sure what that means in SA), whichever it may be, got into the toilet through the closed door.

I don't recall if the defense said it was a 9mm "bullet cartridge" or not either.

I won't even speculate until I know what they mean by "bullet cartridge". :what:

 

[popsicle]

BULLETS AND CARTRIDGES

For terminology questions, I prefer the “NRA Firearms Sourcebook.” This outstanding effort on the part of the American Rifleman Technical staff tells us that a bullet is a “non-spherical projectile for use in a rifled barrel...” and a cartridge is “a single round of ammunition consisting of case, primer and propellant with one or more projectiles.” In other words, a bullet is the part of a cartridge that goes sailing downrange to do its work. The terms are not interchangeable and should be used for their specific and individual meanings.

http://www.americanrifleman.org/blogs/bullets-and-cartridges/

 

[shane13]

I do love how when some of us report the media's reporting of a "fractured skull", others then use the phrase "head bashed in." And others seem to only be posting on this with nothing on the matter at hand, except mocking of other posters. And some would have others believe there is never any corruption, collusion etc. in any country's courts. Even when it is well known that some countries have massive corruption.

So for the record, even wikipedia's piece on skull fracture contains this "...While an uncomplicated skull fracture can occur without associated physical or neurological damage and is in itself usually not clinically significant,..." It notes that there are several levels of skull fracture. And the more minor it was would not have caused (immediate) death or even unconciousness. Only the detailed autopsy report, with I presume concomitant X-rays, would show the extent of any skull fracture.

But someone could have checked some source for details on skull fractures without coming on here to mock other posters who are merely repeating media reports that will not go away. And the media are claiming they got these from the police.

And I for one have tried to match things up. E.g., when someone else said the matter was settled for them after Mr. Myers reported no type of head bashed in thing for Reeva. I then found the newspaper report where they said that the fracture was in the back of the head--so that Mr. Myers would not have been able to see it as he was likely only briefly viewing her face for ID purposes. Some might have congratulated me for making the effort to try to match things up with all the known reports. Instead of mere mockery for all efforts.


Before the bail hearing it was touted that with a schedule 6 murder offense, very special circumstances would have to be shown to have someone released on bail. Yet here someone who has had several other offenses or what should have been declared offenses, showing a dangerous pattern was released on bail. Someone who now--if reports are true--doesn't show up for his first scheduled visit to the police station, and the authorities say it is OK.

Bottom line, is that it is easy to sit back and come on here only or primarily to mock others who are merely relaying media/news reports and just trying to make sense of it all--which often includes many strange and contradictory things. That is a very easy and safe thing to do. But sad and offensive as well.

Call me naive, but I thought mocking other posters is not allowed. Especially when the mockers do not check facts or definitions themselves, and only seem to post on this for the purposes of mockery.

 

[shane13]

I'm still curious how a casing or whole unshot bullet (bullet cartridge-still not sure what that means in SA), whichever it may be, got into the toilet through the closed door.

I don't recall if the defense said it was a 9mm "bullet cartridge" or not either.

I have been wondering that myself. And it might have major horrific implications, or I suppose the defense would argue that in trying to save and carry Reeva he somehow got some casing from the floor on his or her person and it then went into the toilet. Of course others have noted that carrying her down stairs instead of tending to her woulnds where she was and immediately calling for an ambulance and waiting for them or trying to keep her alive where she was would have been more appropriate and helpful behavior.

But you are right to note that a casing in the loo is very troubling.

 

[Dryad]

Yet here someone who has had several other offenses or what should have been declared offenses, showing a dangerous pattern was released on bail. Someone who now--if reports are true--doesn't show up for his first scheduled visit to the police station, and the authorities say it is OK

There seems to be confusion about his bail terms. He has already met with Correctional Services today and has been meeting with them since Saturday but he was never required to report to the police station. Although, they can drop it on him at any time and are keeping a detailed report.

"Barry Bateman ‏@barrybateman
#OscarPistorius does NOT have to report to the police station - the defence recommended it, Nair did not include it in his final order. BB"

 

[NocturnalLady]

I don't know. I would think, however, that he would be very fast without his prosthetics. He's grown up without full legs.

It is interesting that the prior domestic calls were not mentioned because if there have been problems necessitating the police, that's totally relevant!!!!!

I have been pretty firmly on the fence and am still open but I must admit that Onthecounter's logic is sliding me off that fence. To repeat, Onthecounter noted that someone in fear wouldn't drop their gun and turn away from an intruder. I agree. I think they would be clutching that gun and terrified, backing away, hoping that whoever is in there can't or won;t come out until, police arrive.

To me, dropping the gun after such a shooting is the kind of thing a person would do after their rage culminates in the ultimate act of violence. Now they are done acting out their rage and may have begun to realize the extent of what they have done.

No way would a scared person drop their weapon.

BBM - Very good point!

 

[shane13]

I could understand it if it was Reeva who felt "trapped" in the bedroom because the door was locked .....

It is just speculation, but I agree with you that she likely was trapped. And there need not be a key involved. E.g. he could have gotten his gun or bat and blocked the door. Loud voices were heard for over an hour. And here was a woman who was both an attorney (law grad) and an advocate for battered woman's rights.

Is it not logical to presume that once she saw the "real Oscar", she would have wanted to leave, and he prevented that--key or no key?

As I noted yesterday, I think the 17 minute gap from one or more earwitnesses is very telling and very damning. I am not sure how else to interpret witness(es) overhearing shooting then a 17 minute gap then more shooting.

Is there any other sensible interpretation other than murder with premeditation? And that someone acted with what here in the USA is called depraved indifference--only stopping when he saw fatal wounds. And IIRC admitting to calling others before calling an ambulance.

The 17 minute gap between shots I think is perhaps the most damning thing--other than perhaps what forensics might reveal.

 

[shane13]

There seems to be confusion about his bail terms. He has already met with Correctional Services today and has been meeting with them since Saturday but he was never required to report to the police station. Although, they can drop it on him at any time and are keeping a detailed report.

"Barry Bateman ‏@barrybateman
#OscarPistorius does NOT have to report to the police station - the defence recommended it, Nair did not include it in his final order. BB"

Well thanks for that. If you saw the photos of all the media people waiting at the station, it is clear that this was not clear to much of the media. Another strageness though if the defense conceded that they were willing to have him do that and the judge did not order it.

 

[Dryad]

Well thanks for that. If you saw the photos of all the media people waiting at the station, it is clear that this was not clear to much of the media. Another strageness though if the defense conceded that they were willing to have him do that and the judge did not order it.

You're welcome. I remember reading that he had to report on Mondays and Fridays and I have no idea where they came from but I think most of us thought the same thing.

 

[natsound]

You've probably already seen this article... I do believe we've discussed snippets of it.. but it's great. RS's "Joberg dad" helped her pick out pictures to put in the frame she gave OS for Valentine's Day. He says Oscar "can rot in hell".

Also, he says he went to identify the body (I thought family had to do that???). He makes no mention of anything but gunshot wounds. RS's parents have not mentioned cricket bat injuries either.

I think we have to take with a grain of salt any media reports that don't specify a source. A police source could be anybody... or nobody.

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/i-could-have-saved-reeva/

 

[Carol70]

:t:

Well thanks for that. If you saw the photos of all the media people waiting at the station, it is clear that this was not clear to much of the media. Another strageness though if the defense conceded that they were willing to have him do that and the judge did not order it.

I can only speculate that police visited him at the home or theynchanged venues because of the media, the way they hounded the vehicle carrying him home by following him on motorbikes was appalling and a danger to other drivers on the roads.

 

[shane13]

You're welcome. I remember reading that he had to report on Mondays and Fridays and I have no idea where they came from but I think most of us thought the same thing.

I have to agree that the SA, and worldwide media, have been "off" in many ways with this story. Perhaps though this is often the case with breaking news. Some aspects though remain "off."

One thing that continues to be wrongly reported--again in the UK's Telegraph is the alleged steroid testosterone reportedly found. The defense council said it was not a steroid, that it was herbal. Even that is not correct, it is a homeopathic remedy. The British Telegraph still gets an MD (who doesn't know anything about homeopathy likely) to give incorrect ingredients--saying it has herbs and vitamins. And he warns that it would or could raise testosterone levels. But I found one website that listed supposedly all the ingredients, and what was shown were only very dilute ingredients--how homeopathy works. (And I won't go into that. People can look up the matter.)

I had listed a link that had the ingredients. So I hope people can let go of this. He was not on steroids, that is why he didn't have to worry about that showing up. And he need not have been impotent. Homeopathic remedies can be taken for many reasons that are sometimes prescribed by a homeopathic physician on lay practitioner for reasons that would not be obvious to someone not versed in homeopathy.

But yes the local and worldwide media--and police there--have been "off" on things. But we all make mistakes. We are all human. And there is a rush to get things out.

Bottom line, hopefully by trial the Prosecution experts will have everything rigorously sorted out. But again...we are all human, so...

 

[gxm]

Like much of OP's story, the whole cricket bat thing perplexes me. First, how many people keep a cricket bat in their bedroom? It seems odd that is was so handy. Second, how many people open locked bathroom doors with a cricket bat? It has been my experience that most people just use a wire hanger. Heck, we used to keep one in our linen closet for the inevitable times that a kid would accidentally lock the bathroom door upon leaving.

OP may have very well started beating on the door first, and then resorted to the gun to assuage his anger. The bludgeon and the excessive shots fired speak rage, not fear, to me. Speculation and MOO, of course.

 

[shane13]

:t:
I can only speculate that police visited him at the home or theynchanged venues because of the media, the way they hounded the vehicle carrying him home by following him on motorbikes was appalling and a danger to other drivers on the roads.

That is a very logical and intelligent conclusion.Thank you.

And it makes sense. OP claims death threats. And it would be easy for a nutter to lie in wait at the station. ANd the justice system is responsible for his safety in this regard.

So a likely solution. In SA, do they not use electronic means for verifying he is at his new home 24/7?

 

[natsound]

Reeva's half-brother Adam Steenkamp, by the way, has already firmly scotched the claims that police ever told the family she'd been bludgeoned with a bat. Why he would do that is up to you, but if it's all a clever ruse to get the defence thinking they've won, well, I think we're in the realm of reaching a bit.



EDIT: Here's a link, too. http://www.anorak.co.uk/349029/sports/oscar-pistorius-did-the-daily-mail-lie-about-the-bloody-cricket-bat-and-reevas-head-injuries.html/

Respectfully snipped


:yourock: :tyou:

 

[21merc7]

I think initial reports making mistakes is expected. One person could have said "it looks like her head is bashed in" before anyone really got to examine closely. It happens in nearly all of the widely and rapidly reported cases we see here.

The only issue is continuing to report it, even after an officer (under oath on the stand) said he was at the autopsy, not just the scene, and the only damage was bullets. That is when media needs to pull back, make some apologies/corrections, and stop reporting what was initially believed to be true, but after further investigation is found not to be.

As far as the cricket bat in the bedroom, he is afraid of the crime. I have a crowbar by my bed, a can of wasp spray, and a can of pepper spray. Hairspray is in the bathroom, although I use it for its intended purpose, it can also be used to spray in someone's face/eyes. We paranoid types think of these things, lol.

 

[Carol70]

You've probably already seen this article... I do believe we've discussed snippets of it.. but it's great. RS's "Joberg dad" helped her pick out pictures to put in the frame she gave OS for Valentine's Day. He says Oscar "can rot in hell".

Also, he says he went to identify the body (I thought family had to do that???). He makes no mention of anything but gunshot wounds. RS's parents have not mentioned cricket bat injuries either.

I think we have to take with a grain of salt any media reports that don't specify a source. A police source could be anybody... or nobody.

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/i-could-have-saved-reeva/

Lawd, I didn't want to mention this but simply have to, and absolutely no disrespect to Mr Myers, but if any of my daughters were dating someone that I had to give a warning to after only a few short weeks of dating, and found the person moody, hasty and impatient as well as disrespectful, I certainly wouldnt be hanging huge framed photos of myself and said suitor nor helping her to pick photos for valentines. Make of that statement what you like.

Also, since OP character has been assassinated via media, here are a few articles no one seems too interested in.
http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/my-pal-oscar-has-no-dark-side-1.1476562#.USuofXwaySN
http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/who-is-oscar-pistorius-really-1.1476706#.USuoxXwaySN

 

[Carol70]

As far as the cricket bat in the bedroom, he is afraid of the crime. I have a crowbar by my bed, a can of wasp spray, and a can of pepper spray. Hairspray is in the bathroom, although I use it, it can also be used. We paranoid types think of these things, lol.

Haha lol, if you were to visit, something tells me you should survive your holiday!!!