General Discussion Thread #4

[Pisto_lius]

I am now wondering if more witnesses can be added to the Prosecution Witness List before March 2014. New evidence could still be added, I suppose. Would that be a correct assumption?

Yes, evidence and witnesses can admitted (or excluded) by both parties – before the trail starts and/or while a case is underway. This must be done by a "motion in limine". The judge decides about those requests.

And you're right - the duration of the court trial can be extended if necessary. The duration of two weeks for this case is only an estimate by the judge, but most of criminal court trials don't go ahead as planned.

The duration depends on several factors, e.g.

- number of witnesses

- duration of witness examination (direct, cross, re-direct, re-cross etc., if necessary)

- duration of evidence presentation

- kind and number of motions/ postponements

- duration of opening statements and closing arguments (lawyers)

- appeal procedure

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Some additional information

Oscar Pistorius case: Is South Africa's legal system reliable?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21535387


South African rules of evidence
http://www.legalcity.net/Index.cfm?fuseaction=RIGHTS.article&ArticleID=6290631


Criminal procedure in South Africa
Criminal procedure in South Africa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


South Africa's court structure
http://www.westerncape.gov.za/eng/pubs/public_info/C/32303
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[shane13]

RE Oscar Shooting Through The Sunroof.
New, More Damning Aspect

Recall I broke the story here [Post #1117] that Sam Taylor allegedly “told the police about an incident during which she and Pistorius was driving on the highway with the sunroof open. Taylor was behind the wheel. “Oscar allegedly stood up and fired shots through the sunroof,”
Note that it says the Sunroof was open.

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/exclusive-oscars-ex-turns-state-witness/


Now comes this new piece that says that Oscar “allegedly shot a hole through the sunroof of his car.”

Perhaps we should view this new angle as unconfirmed at this time.
But if it proves to be true, it is getting worse for Oscar all the time. As this new angle gets closer to the shooting of Reeva. Here he permanently damaged or destroyed his own car--or part thereof.

For if he, in a rage, blasted his own prized possession—his very expensive car—it is somewhat similar (the uncontrollable rage and need to shoot aspects) to shooting his alleged lover when again in a rage. JMO

http://www.latinpost.com/articles/1...ecution-highlight-blade-runner-temper-use.htm

Update: elsewhere now I am seeing that tsome say it was not his car. I do not know if that means it was ST's car or that it might have been a borrowed car. IIIRC, Justin Divaris let him borrow some fancy new cars.

 

[Estelle]

There is an interesting section in this video where OP is putting on his "every day" prostheses @ 00.27 secs. I was amazed that all he needed to do was pop his stump into his prosthesis and get up and walk. In seconds he was mobile. It begs the question as to why he would walk on stumps? He will probably claim he could not see them in the dark but surely he would have placed them by the bed and the curtains were open at the time he got up. I wonder whether he wears the "socks" on his stumps at all times, as protection?

Four-time Olympic medalist shocked over Pistorius case - YouTube

I also watched that video recently and noticed how short the time was for him to put on his prosthetic legs too. So why would the Prosecution attempt to use that time as a significant time factor in premeditation? Taking time to get the gun and walking down the hall all took time too - enough for him to not follow through.

I have also been watching videos of people walking on stumps. They are quite fast and do not need to use their hands for balance.

As he claims he was in bed (and most people do not wear their prosthetic legs to bed), probably he could carry a fan just as well if he was on stumps or not.

OP has used this IMO as a psychological factor to make him look more vulnerable and to be consistent with having been in bed. But his history says his disability was never used as a reason or excuse for anything let alone an advantage or disadvantage in this case.

But probably the Prosecution can find many people who would say OP was not at a disadvantage on stumps as he also had the control and power of a gun in his hand. So using this line when he had been brought up by his mother to say that he can do anything able-bodied peopled can, and he proved that by participating in the Olympic Games, I am not sure if this sort of defence will help him in any way except with those who pity him.

However, I do believe that neither of them were probably in bed due to what clothes they were still wearing so when in company, I think he would want to be of a taller height than his partner especially when arguing for seven hours.

 

[Estelle]

RE Oscar Shooting Through The Sunroof.
New, More Damning Aspect

Recall I broke the story here [Post #1117] that Sam Taylor allegedly “told the police about an incident during which she and Pistorius was driving on the highway with the sunroof open. Taylor was behind the wheel. “Oscar allegedly stood up and fired shots through the sunroof,”
Note that it says the Sunroof was open.

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/exclusive-oscars-ex-turns-state-witness/

Now comes this new piece that says that Oscar “allegedly shot a hole through the sunroof of his car.”

Perhaps we should view this new angle as unconfirmed at this time.
But if it proves to be true, it is getting worse for Oscar all the time. As this new angle gets closer to the shooting of Reeva. Here he permanently damaged or destroyed his own car--or part thereof.

For if he, in a rage, blasted his own prized possession—his very expensive car—it is somewhat similar (the uncontrollable rage and need to shoot aspects) to shooting his alleged lover when again in a rage. JMO

http://www.latinpost.com/articles/1...ecution-highlight-blade-runner-temper-use.htm

Update: elsewhere now I am seeing that tsome say it was not his car. I do not know if that means it was ST's car or that it might have been a borrowed car. IIIRC, Justin Divaris let him borrow some fancy new cars.

If that is true, then Sam has evidence as there would be a paper trace for the repair of the roof. Also, there was a third person in the car so she had a witness.

 

[shane13]

If that is true, then Sam has evidence as there would be a paper trace for the repair of the roof. Also, there was a third person in the car so she had a witness.

Third person? Who?

And there need not be a paper trail, if one was not created at the time a repair was made.

 

[Pisto_lius]

No reports about HB's case down to the present day - not a single word. The trial date (allegedly) was on 27 August.

But when it came down to blame him for "botched investigations" all the media came thick and fast.
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[Estelle]

Third person? Who?

And there need not be a paper trail, if one was not created at the time a repair was made.

I cannot remember the name of the third person but he was videoed with Gina Myers once. I could recognise the name on the witness list but did a search on google and could not find it.

That would possibly mean that you thought that Divaris lent him a car. But if it was Samantha's car, she would have evidence of a receipt for payment.

Does anyone have the list of witnesses please?

 

[Estelle]

No reports about HB's case down to the present day - not a single word. The trial date (allegedly) was on 27 August.

But when it came down to blame him for "botched investigations" all the media came thick and fast.
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That case was probably dismissed and Botha was used as a scapegoat to get bail for OP.

 

[Interested Bystander]

I cannot remember the name of the third person but he was videoed with Gina Myers once. I could recognise the name on the witness list but did a search on google and could not find it.

That would possibly mean that you thought that Divaris lent him a car. But if it was Samantha's car, she would have evidence of a receipt for payment.

Does anyone have the list of witnesses please?

HTH

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B4hYOrjFUhfidmJZT2F5LWdYREk/edit?usp=sharing&pli=1

 

[Estelle]

Darren Fresco was the witness in the car Samantha was driving. He is in this video.

Reeva Steenkamp Was Passionate About Ending Violence Against Women Says Best Friend - YouTube

I posted it on thread #1102.

New video

with more information about another possible state witness, Darren Fresco, a friend of Pistorius, who was in the car when Samantha Taylor was driving and OP recklessly fired his gun through the sunroof as he was irate after they had been pulled up for speeding.

Quote:
Johannesburg, August 16 – Prosecutors want to add two new firearm related charges to the murder case against Oscar Pistorius. It is now unclear whether the state will permit the charges to be added as it is not in their jurisdiction. eNCA
http://www.enca.com/south-africa/osc...tional-charges

Darren Fresco is Gina Myers' partner. He is here on this video with Gina talking about Reeva and how passionate Reeva was about ending violence against women.

 

[Estelle]

I just found this:

http://vancouver-visions.tumblr.com/post/35403007234/is-oscar-single-again

 

[Pisto_lius]

I cannot remember the name of the third person but he was videoed with Gina Myers once. I could recognise the name on the witness list but did a search on google and could not find it.

That would possibly mean that you thought that Divaris lent him a car. But if it was Samantha's car, she would have evidence of a receipt for payment.

Does anyone have the list of witnesses please?

BIB - http://de.scribd.com/doc/161348107/Oscar-Pistorius-indictment

You always can find the link for the indictment (incl. list of witnesses) in the first post of this thread
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[Pisto_lius]

Over the coming weeks and months there will be not much news to report about this case.

That's why I want to say goodbye :seeya:

It was a real pleasure to discuss with you all the odd things that OP has done or said. And who knows, maybe I'll come back sometime....

Take care of yourself and your loved ones..... :luv:
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[shane13]

Darren Fresco was the witness in the car Samantha was driving. He is in this video.

Reeva Steenkamp Was Passionate About Ending Violence Against Women Says Best Friend - YouTube

I posted it on thread #1102.

New video

with more information about another possible state witness, Darren Fresco, a friend of Pistorius, who was in the car when Samantha Taylor was driving and OP recklessly fired his gun through the sunroof as he was irate after they had been pulled up for speeding.

Quote:
Johannesburg, August 16 – Prosecutors want to add two new firearm related charges to the murder case against Oscar Pistorius. It is now unclear whether the state will permit the charges to be added as it is not in their jurisdiction. eNCA
http://www.enca.com/south-africa/osc...tional-charges

Darren Fresco is Gina Myers' partner. He is here on this video with Gina talking about Reeva and how passionate Reeva was about ending violence against women.

NO.

I think you are quite confusing the event where Reeva had to call her Mom as Oscar was speeding and would not slow down.

With the one I have cited with Sam Taylor driving which has not mentioned any passengers.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Over the coming weeks and months there will be not much news to report about this case.

That's why I want to say goodbye :seeya:

It was a real pleasure to discuss with you all the odd things that OP has done or said. And who knows, maybe I'll come back sometime....

Take care of yourself and your loved ones..... :luv:
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Please, come back sometimes! I prefer your infos and statements!

 

[Murphys_Law]

NO.

I think you are quite confusing the event where Reeva had to call her Mom as Oscar was speeding and would not slow down.

With the one I have cited with Sam Taylor driving which has not mentioned any passengers.

See
http://www.beeld.com/nuus/2013-08-16-ng-klagte-teen-oscar

'Nóg klagte teen Oscar'
Volgens dié uitsaaier is twee klagte van die roekelose afvuur van 'n vuurwapen in 'n openbare plek by die klagstaat gevoeg.

Een van die voorvalle het glo by Tashas-restaurant in Melrose Arch plaasgevind en die ander toe Pistorius saam met sy vriend Darren Fresco en voormalige meisie Samantha Taylor in 'n motor deur die metropolisie afgetrek is.*

Translation: One of the incidents allegedly occurred at Tashas restaurant in Melrose Arch and the other, Pistorius with his friend Darren Fresco and former girlfriend Samantha Taylor in a car.

 

[shane13]

See
http://www.beeld.com/nuus/2013-08-16-ng-klagte-teen-oscar

'Nóg klagte teen Oscar'
Volgens dié uitsaaier is twee klagte van die roekelose afvuur van 'n vuurwapen in 'n openbare plek by die klagstaat gevoeg.

Een van die voorvalle het glo by Tashas-restaurant in Melrose Arch plaasgevind en die ander toe Pistorius saam met sy vriend Darren Fresco en voormalige meisie Samantha Taylor in 'n motor deur die metropolisie afgetrek is.*

Translation: One of the incidents allegedly occurred at Tashas restaurant in Melrose Arch and the other, Pistorius with his friend Darren Fresco and former girlfriend Samantha Taylor in a car.

While this could be, I think they may be erring here.

Fresco is known to be the 3rd person in the car when Reeva had to call her Mom to get OP to slow down.

Furthermore DF is Gina Myers BF IIRC, and is less likely to know ST. (Gina was Reeva's best friend, and Gina I do not believe knew ST or OP until Reeva became his GF.

Unless he is always along with Oscar, this appears to be an error by Beeld.

There has been so little checking by MSM in the last few weeks on OP related stories. One major newspaper called Binge OP's friend when he is his first cousin.

So unless DF is always taken along with OP as the 3rd person on all drives, I will wait for confirmation on this as I think they have gotten confused on auto-related events.

Indeed, one thing the Oscar shooting of Reeva has taught us is how wrong MSM often is. There has been so much misinformation and disinformation at nearly every venue in this matter. So this could be, but I think given all of the above, it is more likely Beeld is erring here. IMO and after my analysis.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

Over the coming weeks and months there will be not much news to report about this case.

That's why I want to say goodbye :seeya:

It was a real pleasure to discuss with you all the odd things that OP has done or said. And who knows, maybe I'll come back sometime....

Take care of yourself and your loved ones..... :luv:
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Hope to read yr interesting and excellent posts again Pisto ! We'll hear much more odd things from yr namesake ...Bis dann ! :seeya:

 

[Murphys_Law]

While this could be, I think they may be erring here.

Fresco is known to be the 3rd person in the car when Reeva had to call her Mom to get OP to slow down.

Furthermore DF is Gina Myers BF IIRC, and is less likely to know ST. (Gina was Reeva's best friend, and Gina I do not believe knew ST or OP until Reeva became his GF.

Unless he is always along with Oscar, this appears to be an error by Beeld.

There has been so little checking by MSM in the last few weeks on OP related stories. One major newspaper called Binge OP's friend when he is his first cousin.

So unless DF is always taken along with OP as the 3rd person on all drives, I will wait for confirmation on this as I think they have gotten confused on auto-related events.

Indeed, one thing the Oscar shooting of Reeva has taught us is how wrong MSM often is. There has been so much misinformation and disinformation at nearly every venue in this matter. So this could be, but I think given all of the above, it is more likely Beeld is erring here. IMO and after my analysis.

I appreciate your efforts Shane, but if you could provide a link or two to substantiate your claim that DF was present in the car while OP was driving at high speeds with RS all would benefit.

Re the BIB: what an odd deduction. Nevertheless, if you extend your research/analysis into the Twittisphere , IMO you will find there was some degree of camaraderie with ST, DF and OP during the pre Reeva/relevant periods.

 

[Estelle]

I will miss your posts too.

I think we have covered most things now so I will be looking forward to March 2014 but we must keep our eyes on the news in case something new crops up.

Goodbye from me too.

:seeya: