General Discussion Thread No. 16

[JMCDAD]

I think its the little things sometimes that speak the loudest
For example, once you discover your daughter missing, how could she possibly leave the twins alone to go back to the restaurant.
you either call them, or you grab the twins and take them with you, you do not leave them alone...........again

 

[IrishMist]

I think its the little things sometimes that speak the loudest
For example, once you discover your daughter missing, how could she possibly leave the twins alone to go back to the restaurant.
you either call them, or you grab the twins and take them with you, you do not leave them alone...........again

I keep hearing this, yet haven't run across this in my reading of the news articles. Do you, (or anyone else), have a link they could post for me? TIA.

 

[gord]

I think its the little things sometimes that speak the loudest
For example, once you discover your daughter missing, how could she possibly leave the twins alone to go back to the restaurant.
you either call them, or you grab the twins and take them with you, you do not leave them alone...........again

I discussed this a while back - I think by this stage KM could have been in a blind panic and going into shock - no-one thinks straight when that happens - you just go with adrenalin and pure reactions

 

[colomom]

Found this blog today and there is an interesting entry:

Blog: http://trannyfattyacid.blogspot.com/2007_09_01_archive.html

Entry: http://trannyfattyacid.blogspot.com/2007/09/clues-red-herrings-and-memes.html

Interesting theory on what might have been done with a body in such a short period of time.

 

[JMCDAD]

I discussed this a while back - I think by this stage KM could have been in a blind panic and going into shock - no-one thinks straight when that happens - you just go with adrenalin and pure reactions

Believe me I do not pretend to know the horror of this and am not one to judge on how people react to it. I do not put much emphasis for example as to whether the McCann's smile too much or don't cry enough etc etc, because people are different and its tough to judge people in this way. But to me, this is pretty cut and dry, you wouldn't leave your kids in a burning building, and say well I just panicked. If your children are in any type of danger, your parental instincts kick in and you protect them with your life.

 

[JMCDAD]

I keep hearing this, yet haven't run across this in my reading of the news articles. Do you, (or anyone else), have a link they could post for me? TIA.

Not sure what your question is, Kate went back to the restaurant after she discovered Maddie missing to alert the others, what she said exactly I am not sure as I have heard different versions but the fact that she did go back I don't think is in question.

 

[gord]

Not sure what your question is, Kate went back to the restaurant after she discovered Maddie missing to alert the others, what she said exactly I am not sure as I have heard different versions but the fact that she did go back I don't think is in question.

I think she ran toward the restaurant screaming and in panic

you make it sound like she had a nice stroll back examining the view .

I think we are getting in semantics here - ??

 

[wtsn5]

Believe me I do not pretend to know the horror of this and am not one to judge on how people react to it. I do not put much emphasis for example as to whether the McCann's smile too much or don't cry enough etc etc, because people are different and its tough to judge people in this way. But to me, this is pretty cut and dry, you wouldn't leave your kids in a burning building, and say well I just panicked. If your children are in any type of danger, your parental instincts kick in and you protect them with your life.

Okay I agree she was in a panick - but I don't think she thought her kids were in danger I think the panick was on Madeleine as she was missing. She could see the twins touch the twins they were safe - I also don't think at first she thought of abduction - I think I read on this message board that she looked around the apartment at first looking for her. I really can't say what I would do in a similar situation - not that I would leave my kids alone but how many parents let their kids play outside while they are inside. I am like the only parent on my street who is outside with her kids and in fact I get ridiculed by the other parents for it. I am being over protective. I think I have heard that many times my response is I don't ever want to say if only I did.... So yes maybe she did leave the twins but how many can say they would be thinking clearly.

 

[SleuthMom]

She did not take the twins with her, period. There was never mixed reports on this.

 

[CaliKid]

So yes maybe she did leave the twins but how many can say they would be thinking clearly.

There is no "maybe" about it. She DID leave the twins behind in the apartment from which her daughter had just been abducted. Panic or no, if Madeleine was kidnapped as she claims, it was a stupid, unsafe thing to do. And I don't buy into the theory that she was so panic-stricken she just forgot them. Anyone with a normal mothering instinct would not do this.

 

[wtsn5]

There is no "maybe" about it. She DID leave the twins behind in the apartment from which her daughter had just been abducted. Panic or no, if Madeleine was kidnapped as she claims, it was a stupid, unsafe thing to do. And I don't buy into the theory that she was so panic-stricken she just forgot them. Anyone with a normal mothering instinct would not do this.

We really don't know for sure if she at first felt that Madeleine was abducted. We don't know much about what happened during those first few moments. most of that is sealed with the police and their secrecy laws.

 

[SleuthMom]

We really don't know for sure if she at first felt that Madeleine was abducted. We don't know much about what happened during those first few moments. most of that is sealed with the police and their secrecy laws.

Yes, we know for sure she thought Maddie was abducted because she said that when she saw cuddle cat up in one of the shelves, she knew someone took her.

 

[JMCDAD]

I think she ran toward the restaurant screaming and in panic

you make it sound like she had a nice stroll back examining the view .

I think we are getting in semantics here - ??

Its not semantics and I never said she had a nice stroll back.
They left their kids (babies really) alone in a strange hotel in a foreign country, to go have fun, she discovers one of them missing, and again leaves them alone.
You can discount it, I do not...

 

[Rino]

We really don't know for sure if she at first felt that Madeleine was abducted. We don't know much about what happened during those first few moments. most of that is sealed with the police and their secrecy laws.

We know for sure what she has said in public , even though she says she can not speak about the case.

We know for certain she left her other 2 kids upon finder her gone.

 

[colomom]

From: http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages...ews.html?in_article_id=473172&in_page_id=1770

"Recalling the scene as she walked into the family's apartment in Praia da Luz, Mrs McCann said: "There was about 20 seconds of disbelief where I thought, 'That can't be right.' I was checking for her. Then there was panic and fear. That was the first thing that hit.

"I was screaming her name. It was just total fear. I never for one second thought that she'd walked out. I knew someone had been in the apartment because of the way it had been left.

"There wasn't a shadow of doubt in my mind that she'd been taken. That's why the fear set in."

And from: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2422967.ece

Was there anything strange about the room after Madeleine disappeared?

"Mrs McCann was sure Madeleine had been abducted because the bedroom window was open and the security shutter was forced open, a source close to the family has insisted. Tests on the shutter showed no sign of forced entry. However, another friend claimed yesterday that the shutter had been left open."

From the same link, regarding leaving the twins (must use your logic with this one):

"Why did Madeleine’s sister and brother sleep through her “abduction”?

Sean and Amelie were heavy sleepers who were not disturbed by their sister’s abduction, claim their parents. However, they also slept through their mother’s hysterical response to Madeleine’s disappearance and the presence of dozens of people who joined the search before being carried out by a female police officer. Kate and Gerry McCann have strenuously denied sedating their daughter."

 

[SleuthMom]

From: http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages...ews.html?in_article_id=473172&in_page_id=1770

"Recalling the scene as she walked into the family's apartment in Praia da Luz, Mrs McCann said: "There was about 20 seconds of disbelief where I thought, 'That can't be right.' I was checking for her. Then there was panic and fear. That was the first thing that hit.

"I was screaming her name. It was just total fear. I never for one second thought that she'd walked out. I knew someone had been in the apartment because of the way it had been left.

"There wasn't a shadow of doubt in my mind that she'd been taken. That's why the fear set in."

Thanks Colomom for always posting great links.

As we can see, Kate Mc Cann did not have a doubt on her mind that Madeleine was abducted, YET she left the twins alone in that same apartment when she went to talk with Gerry and friends at the restaurant.

 

[Pinkhammer]

It's possible that Mrs. Fenn and/or OC staff and/or other neighbors responded to the screams and were present in or at the apartment when Kate ran back to the restaurant screaming.

 

[ThoughtFox]

And now Gerry has changed his story to say that he sensed the presence of an "abductor" inside the apartment when he was checking! So it's even creepier that the twins were left alone while Kate ran back to the Tapas bar, which was hundreds of yards away.

They could easily have lost all three kids that night, and we can't lose sight of that fact. The opportunity was there.

Even if Madeleine wandered out of the room and cracked her skull on the stairs in a fall, the same thing could have happened to the twins who might have followed her. Or they might have wandered into traffic, fallen into the pool, or fallen out the window.

You just cannot go off and leave small children alone like that because the human animal is not independent at an early age. Even alligators stay close to their young in order to protect them, you know? And human children are not baby rabbits you can hide in a hedgerow and run away. (And of course alot of baby animals do die while waiting for their parents to return - there are predators, we humans can be predators too.)

 

[Jayelles]

And now Gerry has changed his story to say that he sensed the presence of an "abductor" inside the apartment when he was checking! So it's even creepier that the twins were left alone while Kate ran back to the Tapas bar, which was hundreds of yards away.

They could easily have lost all three kids that night, and we can't lose sight of that fact. The opportunity was there.

Even if Madeleine wandered out of the room and cracked her skull on the stairs in a fall, the same thing could have happened to the twins who might have followed her. Or they might have wandered into traffic, fallen into the pool, or fallen out the window.

You just cannot go off and leave small children alone like that because the human animal is not independent at an early age. Even alligators stay close to their young in order to protect them, you know? And human children are not baby rabbits you can hide in a hedgerow and run away. (And of course alot of baby animals do die while waiting for their parents to return - there are predators, we humans can be predators too.)

He hasn't changed his story. Clarence Mitchell made a statement yesterday to say that Gerry's thought about the abductor are recorded in his very FIRST witness statement.

 

[Jayelles]

It's possible that Mrs. Fenn and/or OC staff and/or other neighbors responded to the screams and were present in or at the apartment when Kate ran back to the restaurant screaming.

Exactly. There's nothing in that statement to say that she left the twins alone. That said, even if she had, it isn't evidence that she killed Madeleine.