General Gun Violence/Gun Control

[AngTxGal]

Schools and teachers have been part of the process since Columbine.

Where?
AZ is a teacher who was shot by a boy who had repeat violent history in her classroom.
Oakland happened after a teacher sent the shooter to the counselor due to threatening images on a math paper.
Teachers must be a part of the process without their judgment being questioned by admin!

If Red Flag laws allow teachers to skirt around admin, and petition for guns to be removed from the home of a violent student- we are getting somewhere.
If admin, who are not in the classroom, continue to second guess teachers who are in the classroom with violent students- Red Flags won’t work.
And… who do you think will feel repercussions if a Red Flag is called in and a student is hounded by the police but nothing is done? The teacher they had the last encounter with at school.

JMO

 

[AngTxGal]

We have mental health issues all over the world, but guns make it so much easier for the mad / sad / bad to react.

Agreed, when the recipe is right for murder, a gun makes it easier.

As per the gun stats…
There are guns in places where there is not an epidemic of mental health issues in the youth.

There are guns in places where there are no mass shootings.

The problem is the assumption that where there are guns people will shoot people.
That is not even close to true. It cannot be true- as the stats say there are more guns than people in the USA.
I have a gun within 5 feet of me, and have most days of my life of creeping up on 60 yrs. But, I’ve never seen a person aim a gun at another person, not once.
The problem is in the mental state of the Person, not the presence of the gun.

JMO

 

[AngTxGal]

He also beat his ex girlfriend with a mini sledgehammer last December and held her against her will. There is a manhunt for him now.

I find it ridiculous that no one has suggested that she should have had a gun to defend herself. If she had blown him away last December the world would be a better place.
Yes, I said that

JMO

 

[everybodhi]

BBM. I think regulating ammo is key. Our Federal government should tightly regulate the sale of ammo.

Yes, I love the idea in theory but it wouldn’t get through our congress, besides the difficulty of passing any gun legislation a program like that would be massive in the US and probably cost billions.
Switzerland has less than 9 million people.

 

[everybodhi]

I find it ridiculous that no one has suggested that she should have had a gun to defend herself. If she had blown him away last December the world would be a better place.
Yes, I said that

JMO

Yeah, everyone doesn’t see blowing people away as a reasonable way to solve problems.

 

[AngTxGal]

RSBM
While I don't necessarily have an expectation that what works in one country will work in another, it seems sensible to me to share information and discuss. Obviously no country is quite like another country, but there are thinktanks in one country who look towards other countries to see how they deal with all sorts of issues. Delegations go from one country to another to see how neighbouring countries deal with xyz, e.g. within the EU.

Do you feel that the US is unique and can't learn anything from countries that are vaguely similar? Canada, Germany and Switzerland are all countries with a lot of law-making / decision-making at the provincial/Länder/canton level as well as federal. And in Switzerland afaik every man of 'military fighting' age is required to keep a gun in his own house, yet there aren't daily reports of gun violence coming out of Switzerland. So what's the difference between the Swiss and the Americans in relation to gun violence? I don't know personally, but there are quite a lot of answers in this article Switzerland has a stunningly high rate of gun ownership — here's why it doesn't have mass shootings not to mention an explanation on the requirement for men to keep a serviced gun in their house. MOO

But isn't it worth looking into when you consider the gun violence taking place in the US atm? Canada isn't the US, obviously, but there are a number of similarities between the 2 countries IMHO. I used to live in Canada, btw. So why isn't there a similar amount of gun violence in Canada?

And within one country, there have to be things that work all over the country even if in some parts of the country or in some segments of society these measures/laws are unpopular, otherwise there would be anarchy. MOO

So what's the difference between the Swiss and the Americans in relation to gun violence?

The Swiss have widespread gun ownership and also gun education. They seem to pride themselves in personal responsibility and also accountability.
Their culture and ethnicity is quite homogenous- their diversity is very low. My guess is it is easy much easier to agree when values, religion, morals, ethnicity, culture, and even genetics is historically similar.
My kids attended a school where seven languages were spoken in the homes of their classmates. The holiday celebration includes five religions.

Saying not everything works everywhere certainly doesn’t mean there is nothing that can’t be learned or couldn’t work everywhere.
In the US the federal government is limited in power. Much of the power goes to the state government, for the purpose of representing the people of the geographic area more closely. The needs of Montana and Florida are hugely different.
Why not lump all of Europe together and force them to agree on a set of laws that work for all of them- after all their land is connected. Doing so would be a challenge- that is why in the US it is a challenge.

JMO

 

[AngTxGal]

Yeah, everyone doesn’t see blowing people away as a reasonable way to solve problems.

She was beaten by a sledgehammer… and he is on the run for attempted murder.
Exactly how does reasonable and problem solving belong in a sentence with that situation?
If it is my daughter, yes, I would advise her to blow him away. At least she could be tried by a jury of her peers, who would set her free, instead of dead.
If you are surprised I agree with meeting deadly force with deadly force, yu don’t know much about self defense.

What ‘reasonable’ problem solving skills do you suggest in this situation? Therapy?

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Where?
AZ is a teacher who was shot by a boy who had repeat violent history in her classroom.
Oakland happened after a teacher sent the shooter to the counselor due to threatening images on a math paper.
Teachers must be a part of the process without their judgment being questioned by admin!

If Red Flag laws allow teachers to skirt around admin, and petition for guns to be removed from the home of a violent student- we are getting somewhere.
If admin, who are not in the classroom, continue to second guess teachers who are in the classroom with violent students- Red Flags won’t work.
And… who do you think will feel repercussions if a Red Flag is called in and a student is hounded by the police but nothing is done? The teacher they had the last encounter with at school.

JMO

Our school district set-up special security and safety procedures after Columbine including adding School Resource Officers and locking entry doors. The AZ shooting took place because school administrators failed miserably. The Uvalde shooter entered through an unlocked door.

Red Flag laws have nothing to do with schools and everything to do with allowing family and LE to petition a court. No different than asking for an Emergency Order of Protection.

 

[AngTxGal]

I guess the question is in a room full of 50 people, how many can you kill or injure in a few minutes with a knife (or dental floss, or a sharp pencil!) compared to how many can be shot at with a gun?

Knife crime is dirty, personalised and utterly sickening, but it’s not leaving multiple innocent people in schools and public places dead every single day. The murder statistics coming out of America are horrific.

Agree 100%
That is why I would support the ban of assault weapons and the high velocity ammo that can be used in them!
The shooter at Uvalde was able to kill more than one child with a single bullet, and some children were decapitated. No one want to hear what those bullets did to those small bodies.
The same happened at the Highland Park parade.
Some bullets go through the body and leave a hole. These bullets are high velocity and become shrapnel upon impact and bounce all over damaging everything they hit.

IMO- these weapons should be piled up and melted. But that won’t happen.
Or limited to ranges and highly regulated. But…that won’t happen either.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

I find it ridiculous that no one has suggested that she should have had a gun to defend herself. If she had blown him away last December the world would be a better place.
Yes, I said that

JMO

The father of the 6-yo girl also had a gun but he was shot in the back before he could defend himself.

 

[JennieM]

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"
Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, India (1869-1948)

 

[MyBelle]

Yes, I love the idea in theory but it wouldn’t get through our congress, besides the difficulty of passing any gun legislation a program like that would be massive in the US and probably cost billions.
Switzerland has less than 9 million people.

I think it will eventually get through Congress. Elected officials who place a 2nd Amendment Right higher in importance than protecting public safety, especially of children, will eventually get voted out of office. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

 

[AngTxGal]

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind"
Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, India (1869-1948)

Gandhi’s quote is about revenge, not about a smaller person defending themselves against a larger person who is using deadly force.

Save that quote for a DV Survivor’s meeting. Women who have lived to tell are quite ready for someone who hasn’t experienced DV to tell them what they should have done differently.

IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

Yeah, everyone doesn’t see blowing people away as a reasonable way to solve problems.

It can also be a danger to the victim.

When living in the US, I attended a self defence course as my best friend was a counsellor for a rape crisis centre, and they emphasised if a victim produces a weapon in self defence that weapon can be used against them.

Some/many people are afraid to actually pull the trigger, they hesitate, which gives the attacker the opportunity to grab the weapon from them and use it.

The self defence instructor showed us ways to defend ourselves without a weapon.

 

[everybodhi]

Gandhi’s quote is about revenge, not about a smaller person defending themselves against a larger person who is using deadly force.

Save that quote for a DV Survivor’s meeting. Women who have lived to tell are quite ready for someone who hasn’t experienced DV to tell them what they should have done differently.

IMO

How do you know who among us has experienced DV? You’re the only one who has said what any DV victim should have done differently when you said his victim should have blown him away.
Edited to remove any possible discussion of TOS

 

[AngTxGal]

The twisted “get off my lawn” murders seem to be growing.
It’s a perverse interpretation of the castle doctrine and “stand your ground”.

It shows that whatever law on the books to keep guns out of the hands of people with a violent history is not working.
Some people do not have the luxury to move if a neighbor is a .
What are their options? They must protect their family.

JMO

 

[AngTxGal]

It can also be a danger to the victim.

When living in the US, I attended a self defence course as my best friend was a counsellor for a rape crisis centre, and they emphasised if a victim produces a weapon in self defence that weapon can be used against them.

Some/many people are afraid to actually pull the trigger, they hesitate, which gives the attacker the opportunity to grab the weapon from them and use it.

The self defence instructor showed us ways to defend ourselves without a weapon.

Great idea for young women to take self defense classes, the truth is in the moment. Any woman who would hesitate, will still hesitate.
It can’t be easy for a peaceful person to use the force needed to prevent the attacker from being able to attack again.
I do not know what I would do if I feared for my life.
I would never tell a woman in that situation that matching deadly force with deadly force is wrong.
The stats are not on the woman’s side at all

JMO

 

[angelainwi]

Gandhi’s quote is about revenge, not about a smaller person defending themselves against a larger person who is using deadly force.

Save that quote for a DV Survivor’s meeting. Women who have lived to tell are quite ready for someone who hasn’t experienced DV to tell them what they should have done differently.

IMO

I am a DV survivor. I will NEVER own a gun. I know that there is a much larger chance of it being used against me than me using it to defend myself. Furthermore, I am not willing to take someone's life. My broken bones and other injuries can heal, killing someone is not something that I would be able to heal after. To me killing someone is never the answer to any problem.

 

[SouthAussie]

I am a DV survivor. I will NEVER own a gun. I know that there is a much larger chance of it being used against me than me using it to defend myself. Furthermore, I am not willing to take someone's life. My broken bones and other injuries can heal, killing someone is not something that I would be able to heal after. To me killing someone is never the answer to any problem.

That is almost exactly what the rape crisis self-defence instructor said.
If you are going to pull out a weapon, you must be mentally prepared to actually use it immediately. Many women just can't do that. So, pre-examine your capability of doing that.

If you don't use the weapon right away, you may not 'only' be raped, you may also be killed .. with your own weapon.

 

[MyBelle]

It shows that whatever law on the books to keep guns out of the hands of people with a violent history is not working.
Some people do not have the luxury to move if a neighbor is a .
What are their options? They must protect their family.

JMO

Red Flag laws do work and with the increase in mass shootings, more states are enacting them:

What are red flag laws? How can they tackle gun violence?

Michigan is now one of 20 states to have red flag laws -- but what exactly does that mean?

www.clickondetroit.com