General Gun Violence/Gun Control

[MyBelle]

I agree that RedFlag laws seem common sense, but the devil is always in the details and a law passed doesn’t mean it will be implemented/ enforced as effectively as thought.
The key would be who determines if a person is violent or mentally unstable to the degree that their guns are taken away?

Yes I think they could be effective, in theory. It is possible RedFlag laws could prevent some people from getting guns who should not? Yes.
Do I think it is a solution? No. I think mass shootings is a symptom and not the problem.

We must agree that something is different today as compared to the past.
What is it? It cannot be that gun availability has change healthy young men into murderers.
I don‘t buy that. Where are we failing our sons?

JMO

BBM. A Judge will order a mental health evaluation. Mass shootings are committed by people with extreme mental instability. Red Flag laws help LE take guns away from mentally unstable people who have access to them.

I think such laws are an excellent start in saving innocent lives.

JMO

 

[AngTxGal]

BBM. A Judge will order a mental health evaluation. Mass shootings are committed by people with extreme mental instability. Red Flag laws help LE take guns away from mentally unstable people who have access to them.

I think such laws are an excellent start in saving innocent lives.

JMO

Agree, they seem an excellent start.
So then if Colorado passed RedFlag laws in 2019, what happened with the nutcase that shot up ClubQ in Colorado Springs Nov 2022?
He had a history of violence from 2021, yet obtained guns and shot up ClubQ Nov 2022.

Evidently there were plenty of blinking neon signs that the shooter should not have had access to guns. Why did he? His records were sealed about his earlier violence, when unsealed the proverbial caca hit the fan. It looks like a sheriff decided not use the RedFlag to prevent the nutcase from obtaining more guns after they had taken his away. So he bought more and used them Nov 2022 at ClubQ to murder five people.

If a person has a history of violence, and violent threats, why on earth would it be an option for LE to not RedFlag a person, take their guns, and prevent them from purchasing other guns until due process had been completed? Insane and lacking common sense. And yet this happened in a state that is where Columbine, mass school shootings began.
Let’s keep in mind that all of these shootings are within 50 miles of one another!!
Colorado, the home of Columbine 1999, Aurora 2012, Denver 2021, Boulder 2022, Colorado Springs 2022 etc.

“The Club Q attack in Colorado Springs was the 13th mass shooting in the state this year and pushed the state past its record for the most people injured in mass gun violence in a single year, according to a group that started tracking mass shootings nationwide in 2014.”
Colorado Mass Shootings NBC News

IMO

From the article…
“
In 2021, the El Paso County Sheriff’s Office arrested Aldrich after Aldrich allegedly threatened to detonate a bomb and kill the suspect's own grandparents, engaged in a stand-off with police and reportedly talked about plans to become “the next mass killer.” When they arrested Aldrich, authorities confiscated guns and bomb-making materials.

Lawmakers, media and others have questioned why the sheriff’s office didn’t then file for an Extreme Risk Protection Order, which would have banned Aldrich from having or buying guns.

“There were many warning signs,” a spokesman for Gov. Jared Polis recently told the Associated Press. “It appears obvious that an Extreme Risk Protection Order law could have and should have been utilized, which would have removed the suspect’s firearms and could very well have prevented this tragedy.”

Some of the criticism focused on El Paso County law enforcement leaders’ long-standing resistance to using the red-flag law. The sheriff’s office has never filed an ERPO request, and Sheriff Bill Elder previously said he would limit his agency’s use of the new law.

Until now, many of the details of the 2021 case were unclear, since the charges had been dropped and the case records sealed earlier this year.
“

Colorado Public Register

 

[MyBelle]

Agree, they seem an excellent start.
So then if Colorado passed RedFlag laws in 2019, what happened with the nutcase that shot up ClubQ in Colorado Springs Nov 2022?
He had a history of violence from 2021, yet obtained guns and shot up ClubQ Nov 2022.

Evidently there were plenty of blinking neon signs that the shooter should not have had access to guns. Why did he? His records were sealed about his earlier violence, when unsealed the proverbial caca hit the fan. It looks like a sheriff decided not use the RedFlag to prevent the nutcase from obtaining more guns after they had taken his away. So he bought more and used them Nov 2022 at ClubQ to murder five people.

If a person has a history of violence, and violent threats, why on earth would it be an option for LE to not RedFlag a person, take their guns, and prevent them from purchasing other guns until due process had been completed? Insane and lacking common sense. And yet this happened in a state that is where Columbine, mass school shootings began.
Let’s keep in mind that all of these shootings are within 50 miles of one another!!
Colorado, the home of Columbine 1999, Aurora 2012, Denver 2021, Boulder 2022, Colorado Springs 2022 etc.

“The Club Q attack in Colorado Springs was the 13th mass shooting in the state this year and pushed the state past its record for the most people injured in mass gun violence in a single year, according to a group that started tracking mass shootings nationwide in 2014.”
Colorado Mass Shootings NBC News

IMO

From the article…
“
In 2021, the El Paso County Sheriff’s Office arrested Aldrich after Aldrich allegedly threatened to detonate a bomb and kill the suspect's own grandparents, engaged in a stand-off with police and reportedly talked about plans to become “the next mass killer.” When they arrested Aldrich, authorities confiscated guns and bomb-making materials.

Lawmakers, media and others have questioned why the sheriff’s office didn’t then file for an Extreme Risk Protection Order, which would have banned Aldrich from having or buying guns.

“There were many warning signs,” a spokesman for Gov. Jared Polis recently told the Associated Press. “It appears obvious that an Extreme Risk Protection Order law could have and should have been utilized, which would have removed the suspect’s firearms and could very well have prevented this tragedy.”

Some of the criticism focused on El Paso County law enforcement leaders’ long-standing resistance to using the red-flag law. The sheriff’s office has never filed an ERPO request, and Sheriff Bill Elder previously said he would limit his agency’s use of the new law.

Until now, many of the details of the 2021 case were unclear, since the charges had been dropped and the case records sealed earlier this year.
“

Colorado Public Register

BBM. That Colorado shooting just underscores the role politics has played. The suspect in the Club Q mass shooting is the grandson of a Republican politician. LE couldn't do anything because his mother was in denial about his violent history. The El Paso Sheriff is a Republican. Hopefully, his political career is over.

The Highland Park IL shooter is the son of a Republican candidate for mayor. He lost the election, ignored his son's history of violence and threats and signed his gun permit. Too many Republican politicians are against Red Flag laws and imo, it isn't a coincidence that gun violence is much worse in Republican dominated areas.

In May 2022, hours after 19 children were murdered at Robb Elementary in Uvalde, Texas, Republican Gov. Greg Abbott swatted back suggestions that the state could save lives by implementing tougher gun laws by proclaiming “Chicago and L.A. and New York disprove that thesis.”

In reality, the region the Big Apple comprises most of is far and away the safest part of the U.S. mainland when it comes to gun violence, while the regions Florida and Texas belong to have per capita firearm death rates (homicides and suicides) three to four times higher than New York’s. On a regional basis it’s the southern swath of the country — in cities and rural areas alike — where the rate of deadly gun violence is most acute, regions where Republicans have dominated state governments for decades.

The Surprising Geography of Gun Violence

America’s regions are poles apart when it comes to gun deaths and the cultural and ideological forces that drive them.

www.politico.com

 

[Kaley Smith]

I agree that RedFlag laws seem common sense, but the devil is always in the details and a law passed doesn’t mean it will be implemented/ enforced as effectively as thought.
The key would be who determines if a person is violent or mentally unstable to the degree that their guns are taken away?

Yes I think they could be effective, in theory. It is possible RedFlag laws could prevent some people from getting guns who should not? Yes.
Do I think it is a solution? No. I think mass shootings is a symptom and not the problem.

We must agree that something is different today as compared to the past.
What is it? It cannot be that gun availability has change healthy young men into murderers.
I don‘t buy that. Where are we failing our sons?

JMO

"Where are we failing our sons?" That's a very good question for Americans to ask themselves. How are your young males different from those in other countries? They don't play more video games, they don't have a higher rate of mental illness, and I doubt they are more likely to use alcohol and drugs than young men in other developed countries. In my opinion, the difference is it's so very easy for them to get a gun, and their comfort level around guns is so much higher. They have learned from their culture/their parents that owning a gun is a right, not a privilege; that a gun makes them safer, not more at risk; that they need a gun for self defense and to feel powerful/ other methods are not as effective; that the government is to be feared instead of being raised to believe the government passes laws to make everyone safer. It will take at least a generation or two to stamp these myths out of the American psyche. It's not like Australia or Canada where so many people are willing to give up their guns for safety sake. Teach your boys to fear guns... not to admire and show them off. If I had boys, I would not allow them anywhere near a gun until they were adults, and then only for hunting. They're dangerous weapons, not playthings. I know the majority of Canadians feel the same way.

 

[SouthAussie]

Back in 2019, the Secret Service did an assessment of US school shooting killers.


Half of the attackers had interests in violent topics
All attackers experienced social stressors involving their relationships with peers and/or romantic partners
Nearly every attacker experienced negative home life factors
Most attackers were victims of bullying, which was often observed by others
Most attackers had a history of school disciplinary actions, and many had prior contact with law enforcement
All attackers exhibited concerning behaviors. Most elicited concern from others, and most communicated their intent to attack


There is no profile of a student attacker, nor is there a profile for the type of school that has been targeted.
Attackers usually had multiple motives, the most common involving a grievance with classmates.
Most attackers used firearms, and firearms were most often acquired from the home
Most attackers had experienced psychological, behavioral, or developmental symptoms.

https://www.secretservice.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/Protecting_Americas_Schools.pdf

 

[CoverMeCagney]

“In my opinion, the difference is it's so very easy for them to get a gun”

Bingo.

Americans are no more mentally ill than any other nation. Stop making excuses; it’s painfully obvious what the problem is.

 

[AngTxGal]

"Where are we failing our sons?" That's a very good question for Americans to ask themselves. How are your young males different from those in other countries? They don't play more video games, they don't have a higher rate of mental illness, and I doubt they are more likely to use alcohol and drugs than young men in other developed countries. In my opinion, the difference is it's so very easy for them to get a gun, and their comfort level around guns is so much higher. They have learned from their culture/their parents that owning a gun is a right, not a privilege; that a gun makes them safer, not more at risk; that they need a gun for self defense and to feel powerful/ other methods are not as effective; that the government is to be feared instead of being raised to believe the government passes laws to make everyone safer. It will take at least a generation or two to stamp these myths out of the American psyche. It's not like Australia or Canada where so many people are willing to give up their guns for safety sake. Teach your boys to fear guns... not to admire and show them off. If I had boys, I would not allow them anywhere near a gun until they were adults, and then only for hunting. They're dangerous weapons, not playthings. I know the majority of Canadians feel the same way.

I don’t think the US as a whole has a single gun culture as you describe.
I also don’t think it is those in this gun culture that are mass shooters.

Columbine, Aurora, Santa Fe, Buffalo, Oakland, Parkland, Highland Park, Uvalde
Mass shootings were planned, guns bought for this purpose, not a knee jerk reaction to an issue by a teen boy who grew up with guns.

If we consider mass school shooters it appears they are a ’type’ according to this research and not mentally healthy.
Two Professors Found What Creates a Mass Shooter. Will Politicians Pay Attention?

“
Densley: Mass shooters study other mass shooters. They often find a way of relating to them, like, “There are other people out there who feel like me.”

POLITICO: Can you take us through the profile of mass shooters that emerged from your research?

Peterson: There’s this really consistent pathway. Early childhood trauma seems to be the foundation, whether violence in the home, sexual assault, parental suicides, extreme bullying. Then you see the build toward hopelessness, despair, isolation, self-loathing, oftentimes rejection from peers. That turns into a really identifiable crisis point where they’re acting differently. Sometimes they have previous suicide attempts.

What’s different from traditional suicide is that the self-hate turns against a group. They start asking themselves, “Whose fault is this?” Is it a racial group or women or a religious group, or is it my classmates? The hate turns outward. There’s also this quest for fame and notoriety.”
…
”
POLITICO: I was struck by a detail in your book about one of the perpetrators you investigated. Minutes before he opened fire, you report that he called a behavior health facility. Is there always some form of reaching out or communication of intent before it happens?

Peterson: You don’t see it as often with older shooters who often go into their workplaces. But for young shooters, it’s almost every case. We have to view this “leakage” as a cry for help. If you’re saying, “I want to shoot the school tomorrow,” you are also saying, “I don’t care if I live or die.” You’re also saying, “I’m completely hopeless,” and you’re putting it out there for people to see because part of you wants to be stopped.”



It appears to me, based on this research that mass shootings of this type it is a societal failing, and these shootings are a suicide attempt.

JMO

 

[AngTxGal]

“In my opinion, the difference is it's so very easy for them to get a gun”

Bingo.

Americans are no more mentally ill than any other nation. Stop making excuses; it’s painfully obvious what the problem is.

Interesting… So the recipe is that simple? young male + accessible gun = murder by gun

Any idea…
- How many males grow up with guns in their home in the US?
- How many males in the south and southwest grow up with guns in their home?
- How many grow up with guns in the home of a family member or friend?
- How many have the money to buy a gun at 18 yrs old?

All of these are true for my son, and I can count at least 10 of his friends that I know well enough to know these are also true. I’ve known their family for at least a decade.
All of these are true for my six nephews- youngest is now 19.
All of these are true for my brother, my dad and his brother, my mother’s four brothers, my five male cousins, my two grandfathers and their total four brothers.
All of these are true for my husband, his father, brother, and grandfather.
None of the males listed above are or have been murderers, nor have any of them shot anyone. I do have two uncles who served in Viet Nam.

None of these 40 men have been arrested for any crimes- period.

All of these males have lived in the south or southwest either a majority or all of their life.
About 3/4 of them are hunters/ outdoorsmen- who regularly use a gun. Some carry a gun daily as police officers.
About 90% of them attended, are attending college or have earned a degree.

In my family there are zero murderers- but all 40 of the men should be, as per your logic.

So how many shootings do you think would occur in the US if even 1% of all young males chose to kill someone because of their easy access to a gun?

Evidently a lot of young men who grow up with a gun, or have easy access to a gun do not become murderers.
To those who live around these young men or adult men and know them best- the reason for the incidents of murder by young men in the US by gun is far from ‘obvious’.

Pew Research Center gun stats
40% live in household with a gun, 45 in south and west, 58% rural
majority owners are men, majority are white
30% don’t own, don’t live with someone who owns, and would never own a gun
70% either own, live with someone who owns, or could see them owning a gun

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

“In my opinion, the difference is it's so very easy for them to get a gun”

Bingo.

Americans are no more mentally ill than any other nation. Stop making excuses; it’s painfully obvious what the problem is.

Yes, it is very obvious that mentally disturbed individuals should not be anywhere near or have access to a gun.

 

[MyBelle]

"Where are we failing our sons?" That's a very good question for Americans to ask themselves. How are your young males different from those in other countries? They don't play more video games, they don't have a higher rate of mental illness, and I doubt they are more likely to use alcohol and drugs than young men in other developed countries. In my opinion, the difference is it's so very easy for them to get a gun, and their comfort level around guns is so much higher. They have learned from their culture/their parents that owning a gun is a right, not a privilege; that a gun makes them safer, not more at risk; that they need a gun for self defense and to feel powerful/ other methods are not as effective; that the government is to be feared instead of being raised to believe the government passes laws to make everyone safer. It will take at least a generation or two to stamp these myths out of the American psyche. It's not like Australia or Canada where so many people are willing to give up their guns for safety sake. Teach your boys to fear guns... not to admire and show them off. If I had boys, I would not allow them anywhere near a gun until they were adults, and then only for hunting. They're dangerous weapons, not playthings. I know the majority of Canadians feel the same way.

BBM. I don't believe it will take that long.

When I see photos of politicians and their families gathered around the Christmas tree grinning while clutching assault weapons, that is a clear sign we gotta BIG problem in the U.S. and the way to solve it is at the voting booth.

JMO

 

[AngTxGal]

BBM. A Judge will order a mental health evaluation. Mass shootings are committed by people with extreme mental instability. Red Flag laws help LE take guns away from mentally unstable people who have access to them.

I think such laws are an excellent start in saving innocent lives.

JMO

Absolutely agree people with some kinds of mental illness should not have access to guns.
But…where is the evidence that mass shootings are committed by people with ‘extreme mental instability”?
I too would have assumed mental illness or substance abuse was related, evidently that isn’t true.

Columbia University Dept of Psychiatry-
Is there a link between mental health and mass shootings?

“The reality is that people with mental illness account for a very small proportion of perpetrators of mass shootings in the U.S., says Ragy Girgis, MD, associate professor of clinical psychiatry in the Columbia University Department of Psychiatry and the New York State Psychiatric Institute.
The public tends to link serious mental illnesses, like schizophrenia or psychotic disorders, with violence and mass shootings. But serious mental illness—specifically psychosis—is not a key factor in most mass shootings or other types of mass murder. Approximately 5% of mass shootings are related to severe mental illness. And although a much larger number of mass shootings (about 25%) are associated with non-psychotic psychiatric or neurological illnesses, including depression, and an estimated 23% with substance use, in most cases these conditions are incidental.
Additionally, as we demonstrated in our paper, the contribution of mental illness to mass shootings has decreased over time. The data suggest that while it is critical that we continue to identify those individuals with mental illness and substance use disorders at high risk for violence and prevent the perpetration of violence, other risk factors, such as a history of legal problems, challenges coping with severe and acute life stressors, and the epidemic of the combination of nihilism, emptiness, anger, and a desire for notoriety among young men, seem a more useful focus for prevention and policy than an emphasis on serious mental illness, which leads to public fear and stigmatization.”

There must be something to these risk factors and description of young male mass shooters, as the creators of The Violence Project also have a similar take.
American Psychological Association- podcast of The Violence Project database

Politico- Petersen and Densley- Two professors found what creates a mass shooter

I’m curious as to how we distinguish the typical stressors of puberty and high school with the risk factors described in this article above.
In order to RedFlag a person, they must be identified by someone in their family, friend group, school teacher, significant other, or identification won’t occur until after confrontation with the law. And if the psych eval does not show signs- a judge won’t sign for gun removal.

JMO

 

[AngTxGal]

BBM. I don't believe it will take that long.

When I see photos of politicians and their families gathered around the Christmas tree grinning while clutching assault weapons, that is a clear sign we gotta BIG problem in the U.S. and the way to solve it is at the voting booth.

JMO

Agreed, and Rep AG of TN is not only tone deaf, he appears to be a liar when it comes to items on his resume.
And some wonder why some American citizens question if they can trust politicians here. This is some of the mild nonsense that would give anyone pause.

Andy Ogles education history lies

JMO

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I think with the topic of gun control you also have to consider accessibility to healthcare, especially for mental health issues.

For example, in Canada older males living in rural areas tend to be most at risk for suicide by a firearm. Access is part of it as they’re more likely to use firearms or own them, but, in my view, they tend to be more stoic and less likely to visit doctors. But in many cases their access to healthcare is limited compared to urban areas.

I know the US has a different healthcare system, ours is universal and yours is private and it’s a struggle for many. I looked over some articles that suggested that may play a factor in the difference between gun violence in our countries. I don’t know, but wonder if it’s a factor.

 

[MyBelle]

Absolutely agree people with some kinds of mental illness should not have access to guns.
But…where is the evidence that mass shootings are committed by people with ‘extreme mental instability”?
I too would have assumed mental illness or substance abuse was related, evidently that isn’t true.

Columbia University Dept of Psychiatry-
Is there a link between mental health and mass shootings?

“The reality is that people with mental illness account for a very small proportion of perpetrators of mass shootings in the U.S., says Ragy Girgis, MD, associate professor of clinical psychiatry in the Columbia University Department of Psychiatry and the New York State Psychiatric Institute.
The public tends to link serious mental illnesses, like schizophrenia or psychotic disorders, with violence and mass shootings. But serious mental illness—specifically psychosis—is not a key factor in most mass shootings or other types of mass murder. Approximately 5% of mass shootings are related to severe mental illness. And although a much larger number of mass shootings (about 25%) are associated with non-psychotic psychiatric or neurological illnesses, including depression, and an estimated 23% with substance use, in most cases these conditions are incidental.
Additionally, as we demonstrated in our paper, the contribution of mental illness to mass shootings has decreased over time. The data suggest that while it is critical that we continue to identify those individuals with mental illness and substance use disorders at high risk for violence and prevent the perpetration of violence, other risk factors, such as a history of legal problems, challenges coping with severe and acute life stressors, and the epidemic of the combination of nihilism, emptiness, anger, and a desire for notoriety among young men, seem a more useful focus for prevention and policy than an emphasis on serious mental illness, which leads to public fear and stigmatization.”

There must be something to these risk factors and description of young male mass shooters, as the creators of The Violence Project also have a similar take.
American Psychological Association- podcast of The Violence Project database

Politico- Petersen and Densley- Two professors found what creates a mass shooter

I’m curious as to how we distinguish the typical stressors of puberty and high school with the risk factors described in this article above.
In order to RedFlag a person, they must be identified by someone in their family, friend group, school teacher, significant other, or identification won’t occur until after confrontation with the law. And if the psych eval does not show signs- a judge won’t sign for gun removal.

JMO

BBM. I said "severe mental instability." The Sandy Hook shooter, Highland Park shooter, Uvalde shooter, Club Q shooter, Nashville shooter all had writings, conversations with family/friends that were reflections of their mental instability.

It's no different than an Order of Protection. The abuser's behavior toward his victim deteriorates and the victim usually has proof in the form of photos of injuries, police reports, witness accounts.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

I think with the topic of gun control you also have to consider accessibility to healthcare, especially for mental health issues.

For example, in Canada older males living in rural areas tend to be most at risk for suicide by a firearm. Access is part of it as they’re more likely to use firearms or own them, but, in my view, they tend to be more stoic and less likely to visit doctors. But in many cases their access to healthcare is limited compared to urban areas.

I know the US has a different healthcare system, ours is universal and yours is private and it’s a struggle for many. I looked over some articles that suggested that may play a factor in the difference between gun violence in our countries. I don’t know, but wonder if it’s a factor.

In the U.S., retired Americans are covered by Medicare which does provide for mental health services. What is needed are family members of the elderly to serve as their advocates to not only encourage but to also attend medical appointments with them.

The bi-partisan gun control legislation passed last year is just a start but at least they finally got enough politicians to agree to do something, rather than continue to do nothing.

The act also confronted the decades-old scapegoat of mass shootings — that they are caused by mental illness — by actually investing in health care through schools and public clinics.

In the Folds of a Major Gun Control Law, Mental Health Hope for California Youth

Can California make the most of a rare health care win?

capitalandmain.com

 

[branmuffin]

Even if individuals are suffering from "severe mental health issues" it doesn't always follow that they are required to either give up their weapons or be restricted from buying them. The Second Amendment seems to trump all other laws in the US.

I remember when Esteban Santiago-Ruiz killed five people in the Fort Lauderdale airport in 2017. I remember it clearly because my daughter had just missed his rampage. She and her husband were embarking on a 7-day cruise that day having just landed an hour prior.

Santiago-Cruz had exhibited numerous red flags of paranoia and hallucinations after suffering PTSD from his time in Iraq. When he got home to Alaska, he even went to his commanding officer telling him of his deteriorating mental health. They reviewed his concerns and sent him on his way without any follow up. He retained his weapons and brought them as checked luggage on his flight to Florida.

Brother of airport shooting suspect says US gov't failed him

PENUELAS, Puerto Rico – The brother of a man accused of killing five people at a Florida airport questioned Saturday why his brother was allowed to keep his gun after U.S. authorities knew he’d become increasingly paranoid and was hearing voices. Esteban Santiago, 26, had trouble controlling his...

kitchener.citynews.ca

Iraq war veteran accused of killing five at Ft. Lauderdale airport

An Iraq war veteran took a gun out of his checked luggage and opened fire in a crowded baggage claim area at Fort Lauderdale's airport on Friday, killing five people, months after he showed up at an FBI office behaving erratically.

www.reuters.com

So I'm confused by the issue of military veterans and mental health issues and the ability to still retain their weapons even with a diagnosis of PTSD. I've been on several websites that are government created or those of law offices who specialize in military veterans and the issue of PTSD disability and how the percentage of disability can affect whether or not you surrender your gun license. Here's a link to a law firm who can help a vet navigate through the labyrinth of regulations.

VA Incompetency and Fiduciary Program

Veteran incompetency and fiduciary policy makes it possible for a vet to still get benefits even if you can't handle your financial affairs.

www.woodslawyers.com

If military vets can seem to skirt the laws regarding relinquishing their weapons how do we expect the so-called red flag laws to be effective?

 

[MyBelle]

Even if individuals are suffering from "severe mental health issues" it doesn't always follow that they are required to either give up their weapons or be restricted from buying them. The Second Amendment seems to trump all other laws in the US.

I remember when Esteban Santiago-Ruiz killed five people in the Fort Lauderdale airport in 2017. I remember it clearly because my daughter had just missed his rampage. She and her husband were embarking on a 7-day cruise that day having just landed an hour prior.

Santiago-Cruz had exhibited numerous red flags of paranoia and hallucinations after suffering PTSD from his time in Iraq. When he got home to Alaska, he even went to his commanding officer telling him of his deteriorating mental health. They reviewed his concerns and sent him on his way without any follow up. He retained his weapons and brought them as checked luggage on his flight to Florida.

Brother of airport shooting suspect says US gov't failed him

PENUELAS, Puerto Rico – The brother of a man accused of killing five people at a Florida airport questioned Saturday why his brother was allowed to keep his gun after U.S. authorities knew he’d become increasingly paranoid and was hearing voices. Esteban Santiago, 26, had trouble controlling his...

kitchener.citynews.ca

Iraq war veteran accused of killing five at Ft. Lauderdale airport

An Iraq war veteran took a gun out of his checked luggage and opened fire in a crowded baggage claim area at Fort Lauderdale's airport on Friday, killing five people, months after he showed up at an FBI office behaving erratically.

www.reuters.com

So I'm confused by the issue of military veterans and mental health issues and the ability to still retain their weapons even with a diagnosis of PTSD. I've been on several websites that are government created or those of law offices who specialize in military veterans and the issue of PTSD disability and how the percentage of disability can affect whether or not you surrender your gun license. Here's a link to a law firm who can help a vet navigate through the labyrinth of regulations.

VA Incompetency and Fiduciary Program

Veteran incompetency and fiduciary policy makes it possible for a vet to still get benefits even if you can't handle your financial affairs.

www.woodslawyers.com

If military vets can seem to skirt the laws regarding relinquishing their weapons how do we expect the so-called red flag laws to be effective?

Red Flag laws allow the family to ask a Judge to intervene and LE takes control of the weapons temporarily. Very similar to emergency order of protection laws designed to protect victims of domestic violence. I think once a state passes such a law, there has to be public awareness as well as LE training to help maximize their effectiveness.

JMO

 

[AngTxGal]

BBM. That Colorado shooting just underscores the role politics has played. The suspect in the Club Q mass shooting is the grandson of a Republican politician. LE couldn't do anything because his mother was in denial about his violent history. The El Paso Sheriff is a Republican. Hopefully, his political career is over.

The Highland Park IL shooter is the son of a Republican candidate for mayor. He lost the election, ignored his son's history of violence and threats and signed his gun permit. Too many Republican politicians are against Red Flag laws and imo, it isn't a coincidence that gun violence is much worse in Republican dominated areas.

In May 2022, hours after 19 children were murdered at Robb Elementary in Uvalde, Texas, Republican Gov. Greg Abbott swatted back suggestions that the state could save lives by implementing tougher gun laws by proclaiming “Chicago and L.A. and New York disprove that thesis.”

In reality, the region the Big Apple comprises most of is far and away the safest part of the U.S. mainland when it comes to gun violence, while the regions Florida and Texas belong to have per capita firearm death rates (homicides and suicides) three to four times higher than New York’s. On a regional basis it’s the southern swath of the country — in cities and rural areas alike — where the rate of deadly gun violence is most acute, regions where Republicans have dominated state governments for decades.

The Surprising Geography of Gun Violence

America’s regions are poles apart when it comes to gun deaths and the cultural and ideological forces that drive them.

www.politico.com

This Politico article you’ve posted is by far the best explanation of the eleven historical ideologies across the US. This shows why state lines are not ideological lines and why powers remain with the states instead of with the federal gov’t.

The article also explains the diversity in Texas- which has four of the eleven regions.
Map of American Regions is in color scroll down quite a bit

Also, our current polarization of our two parties imply a binary, it is a spectrum.
“Yet the gulf that separates Republicans and Democrats sometimes obscures the divisions and diversity of views that exist within both partisan coalitions – and the fact that many Americans do not fit easily into either one.”
Beyond Red and Blue Political Typology- Pew Research

All this to say that the lack of compromise currently is beyond frustrating, seems like paralysis, it is pass time to force politicians did their jobs to find a real solution.

- Raise age 18 to 21 yrs for purchase of any gun (if not struck down by Supreme Court)
- Background checks for all gun purchases (impossible to enforce due to private sales)
- RedFlag laws- automatic rather than rely on a LE petition in all documented cases of DV, threats to self or others, violent acts at school, documented mental instability
- RedFlag laws- mental health support
- National Registry for AR-15 style weapon- semi-auto and high velocity

I think gun owners I know could get behind these changes and see them as common sense.
What this list does not do is assume everyone with a gun must be controlled by more laws.
Any hint of that attitude will never pass in any traditionally Republican state.
JMO

 

[AngTxGal]

Even if individuals are suffering from "severe mental health issues" it doesn't always follow that they are required to either give up their weapons or be restricted from buying them. The Second Amendment seems to trump all other laws in the US.

I remember when Esteban Santiago-Ruiz killed five people in the Fort Lauderdale airport in 2017. I remember it clearly because my daughter had just missed his rampage. She and her husband were embarking on a 7-day cruise that day having just landed an hour prior.

Santiago-Cruz had exhibited numerous red flags of paranoia and hallucinations after suffering PTSD from his time in Iraq. When he got home to Alaska, he even went to his commanding officer telling him of his deteriorating mental health. They reviewed his concerns and sent him on his way without any follow up. He retained his weapons and brought them as checked luggage on his flight to Florida.

Brother of airport shooting suspect says US gov't failed him

PENUELAS, Puerto Rico – The brother of a man accused of killing five people at a Florida airport questioned Saturday why his brother was allowed to keep his gun after U.S. authorities knew he’d become increasingly paranoid and was hearing voices. Esteban Santiago, 26, had trouble controlling his...

kitchener.citynews.ca

Iraq war veteran accused of killing five at Ft. Lauderdale airport

An Iraq war veteran took a gun out of his checked luggage and opened fire in a crowded baggage claim area at Fort Lauderdale's airport on Friday, killing five people, months after he showed up at an FBI office behaving erratically.

www.reuters.com

So I'm confused by the issue of military veterans and mental health issues and the ability to still retain their weapons even with a diagnosis of PTSD. I've been on several websites that are government created or those of law offices who specialize in military veterans and the issue of PTSD disability and how the percentage of disability can affect whether or not you surrender your gun license. Here's a link to a law firm who can help a vet navigate through the labyrinth of regulations.

VA Incompetency and Fiduciary Program

Veteran incompetency and fiduciary policy makes it possible for a vet to still get benefits even if you can't handle your financial affairs.

www.woodslawyers.com

If military vets can seem to skirt the laws regarding relinquishing their weapons how do we expect the so-called red flag laws to be effective?

Agreed- mental health support in the US is lacking, in my experience. Texas certainly isn’t high on the list of places to find quality help.
A person with PTSD doesn‘t necessarily pose a risk to self or others, but that mental state could change quickly or be triggered by an event, or lack of meds, or even taking the wrong meds or wrong dose of meds.
If public safety is the priority- then a diagnosis of PTSD would prevent keeping a gun
If this results in vets not getting mental health treatment for fear of losing guns- you’ve created another problem.

Mental health diagnosis is based on a psych eval. It seems a simple task- it is not.
A full psych eval is a voluntary interview of someone by a diagnostician, takes hours.
If meds are prescribed it still takes time to find the right med, regulate the dosage slowly by building up over time- then eval to see if the med is a good fit Or not.
Meds have side effects- and the incorrect or wrong dose can result in new homicidal or suicidal thoughts in a person who sought help for anxiety or depression.
Psychotropic meds are scary
And…if over the age of 18, no one can force a person to seek treatment, much less take meds as prescribed.

What is a psych eval- Psychology Today

JMO

 

[SouthAussie]

Yes, it is very obvious that mentally disturbed individuals should not be anywhere near or have access to a gun.

If we take the Secret Service assessment as a guide (which is limited to school killings), the people who shouldn't have guns are people who have any combination of:

- an interest in violent topics
- social stressors involving peers and/or romantic partners
- negative home life factors
- a victim of bullying
- a history of disciplinary actions
- having prior contact with law enforcement
- concerning behaviours (whatever that is ... killing small animals? hurting their siblings? spitting at their parents? drug use?)
- psychological, behavioural, or developmental symptoms (which covers a very broad range)

Adding:
- a job grievance
- commit domestic violence
- anger at the way casinos are treating them, despite being a high roller
- seeking notoriety

Secret Service Assessment - there is no profile of a school attacker
Texas gunman who killed 7 was fired from job on day of rampage
New Study: Majority of Mass Shootings Linked to Domestic Violence
Insight into mindset of 2017 Las Vegas mass shooter
Fame-seeking mass shooters in America