General Gun Violence/Gun Control

[AngTxGal]

BBM. I said "severe mental instability." The Sandy Hook shooter, Highland Park shooter, Uvalde shooter, Club Q shooter, Nashville shooter all had writings, conversations with family/friends that were reflections of their mental instability.

It's no different than an Order of Protection. The abuser's behavior toward his victim deteriorates and the victim usually has proof in the form of photos of injuries, police reports, witness accounts.

JMO

The grandparents that lived in the home of the Uvalde shooter did not know he had recently bought two rifles. He shot his grandmother in the face on his way to the school.
He had purchased the guns 8 days before the shooting.

He was an academically poor student, speech issues
No stable home, lived with grandparents
He had no run-ins with the law.
Social outcast, loner, bullied
Online he was a jerk to women online and where he briefly worked
The girl he contacted was in Germany, he communicated with over social media.

Uvalde has a population of 15K, if the shooter was widely known to be ‘severely mentally unstable’ then his grandparents would have known. The entire city would know.

OR- the law enforcement that was useless during the shooting was just as useless in the city before the shooting. Maybe he had run ins with the law and they failed to act?

Missed Warning Signs at Uvalde

Who would have been the person to provide evidence for a RedFlag on him?
I still do not see clear evidence for a judge to sign such a document, as LE was not involved.
In order to get the evidence a judge would have to sign a warrant for his social media Accounts, that warrant would need probable cause. To find his writings would require another warrant, based on probable cause to search his room. He had no record of actual violence, but had threatened.
He would need to be caught when he went to buy a gun or shortly after- but there was no wait time. He bought two rifles when he turned 18, 8 days before the shooting. What would have kept him from buying?
Am I missing something?
It looks to me like a RedFlag Law in place would not have prevented Uvalde.

These may have caught or deterred or prevented or postponed… but none are in place.
-Gun purchase 21 yr and above
-Restrictions on AR-15s and ammo
-Wait time to purchase- 30 days.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

The grandparents that lived in the home of the Uvalde shooter did not know he had recently bought two rifles. He shot his grandmother in the face on his way to the school.
He had purchased the guns 8 days before the shooting.

He was an academically poor student, speech issues
No stable home, lived with grandparents
He had no run-ins with the law.
Social outcast, loner, bullied
Online he was a jerk to women online and where he briefly worked
The girl he contacted was in Germany, he communicated with over social media.

Uvalde has a population of 15K, if the shooter was widely known to be ‘severely mentally unstable’ then his grandparents would have known. The entire city would know.

OR- the law enforcement that was useless during the shooting was just as useless in the city before the shooting. Maybe he had run ins with the law and they failed to act?

Missed Warning Signs at Uvalde

Who would have been the person to provide evidence for a RedFlag on him?
I still do not see clear evidence for a judge to sign such a document, as LE was not involved.
In order to get the evidence a judge would have to sign a warrant for his social media Accounts, that warrant would need probable cause. To find his writings would require another warrant, based on probable cause to search his room. He had no record of actual violence, but had threatened.
He would need to be caught when he went to buy a gun or shortly after- but there was no wait time. He bought two rifles when he turned 18, 8 days before the shooting. What would have kept him from buying?
Am I missing something?
It looks to me like a RedFlag Law in place would not have prevented Uvalde.

These may have caught or deterred or prevented or postponed… but none are in place.
-Gun purchase 21 yr and above
-Restrictions on AR-15s and ammo
-Wait time to purchase- 30 days.

JMO

BBM. Quite a few people knew of the shooter's violence, his suicidal tendencies and threats, but Texas has no Red Flag law so it really is a moot point, imo.

How Uvalde killer’s family and officials missed red flags before massacre

Report that draws from interviews with family members, phone information and testimony given to lawmakers offers the most complete account yet of shooter

www.theguardian.com

‘Your thoughts and prayers haven’t done anything’: Uvalde families call for changes to Texas gun laws

The author of a bill to raise the minimum age to buy a semiautomatic gun said he would have voted “no” to a similar bill last session. The shooting in Uvalde changed his mind.

www.tpr.org

 

[Kaley Smith]

The very fact that someone is carrying a gun changes my whole impression of them.
I didn't like this guy, I am sure it was because he carried a gun.

I see a gun as nothing but a killing tool. Which makes the person carrying a potential killer. IYKWIM and absolutely no offence intended. Just trying to express the viewpoint of many in a non-gun culture.

I know that does not fit into your culture, that's why I don't live there any more. Thankfully I had a choice.

Exactly. If we'd ever happen to see anyone with a gun in Canada, we'd phone 911 ASAP.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Exactly. If we'd ever happen to see anyone with a gun in Canada, we'd phone 911 ASAP.

I’ve never seen a proper gun in the UK, except on police at airports or after terrorist attacks - they don’t carry them day to day, we have specialist firearms units for that.

In fact the only time I’ve ever seen one owned by a civilian was in Laos, and that was “just” little kids messing about with leftovers from the Vietnam War, probably not even working guns.

I would definitely call 999 if I knew someone had one here.

 

[AngTxGal]

BBM. Quite a few people knew of the shooter's violence, his suicidal tendencies and threats, but Texas has no Red Flag law so it really is a moot point, imo.

How Uvalde killer’s family and officials missed red flags before massacre

Report that draws from interviews with family members, phone information and testimony given to lawmakers offers the most complete account yet of shooter

www.theguardian.com

‘Your thoughts and prayers haven’t done anything’: Uvalde families call for changes to Texas gun laws

The author of a bill to raise the minimum age to buy a semiautomatic gun said he would have voted “no” to a similar bill last session. The shooting in Uvalde changed his mind.

www.tpr.org

What about laws already on the books? You can’t legally threaten people.
He was not yet 18 until spring 2022, he could have mental health help being a minor if he was found delusional or dangerous- through the school.

The RedFlag laws would only have taken guns he had but he did not purchase any until 8 days prior to the shooting after he turned 18.

In the Uvalde case No RedFlag Law would have helped, as they take guns a person already has, and he had no documented history of mental health issues, school issues, or family issues to support any RedFlag anyways.

What was needed was an education regarding the system. His grandparents needed an advocate for him at the school- to get a mental health eval.
<modsnip - not victim friendly>

Am I blaming others? No.
What I am doing is showing there is a system and laws already in place, but if that system isn’t used and those laws are not used and enforced then a new law solves nothing. A new law simply makes people feel as if something was done.

New Law that would help- hold video game companies accountable- prevent them from advertising their guns in the games!

My guess..
Over the years he was pushed out of social circles, speech issues, anger, family issues
He played video games in his room at his grandparents home, skipped school
He wasn’t out interacting with people- over 100 absences logged in a single year- he was effectively a high school drop out
His grandparents prob asked him to get a job- which he did and promptly got fired
There likely were issues in the home- if anyone asked him to do anything, he was angry.
His grandparents didn’t know what to do= who to call for help. His parents were no help
He was entitled to his video games and electricity and someone was paying for him to do nothing, so he shot his grandmother in the face- and then went to the school
He was playing a video game- making people pay for his dead end life, he would make his mark on the world- by killing a lot of kids during his own suicide.

JMO

 

[AngTxGal]

BBM. Quite a few people knew of the shooter's violence, his suicidal tendencies and threats, but Texas has no Red Flag law so it really is a moot point, imo.

How Uvalde killer’s family and officials missed red flags before massacre

Report that draws from interviews with family members, phone information and testimony given to lawmakers offers the most complete account yet of shooter

www.theguardian.com

‘Your thoughts and prayers haven’t done anything’: Uvalde families call for changes to Texas gun laws

The author of a bill to raise the minimum age to buy a semiautomatic gun said he would have voted “no” to a similar bill last session. The shooting in Uvalde changed his mind.

www.tpr.org

And this happened in Houston 2022, a with multiple charges of DV kept getting out and offending over and over

Julian Chavez Houston Texas

JMO

 

[JennieM]

Illinois man using leaf blower in yard allegedly shot dead by neighbor​

William Martys, 59, was reportedly using his leaf blower in his yard in Antioch when his neighbor, 79-year-old Ettore Lacchei, got into an argument with him then shot him in the head.

Lacchei was arrested and charged with two counts of first-degree murder.

A neighbor told WLS, Chicago’s ABC affiliate, the two men had a history, and Lacchei had pulled a gun on Martys before.

“No one deserves anything like that, and it’s just kind of crazy to think someone can just break like that over just a simple argument that can be fixed just talking,” the neighbor, JR McCarty, told the station.

Martys’ death comes amid a string of shootings in which people have been harmed or killed over trivial matters.

Illinois man using leaf blower in yard allegedly shot dead by neighbor

Ettore Lacchei, 79, arrested and charged with first-degree murder over death of William Martys, 59, in Antioch, north of Chicago

www.theguardian.com

 

[MyBelle]

Colorado governor signs 4 gun control bills after massacre

Colorado’s governor has signed four gun control bills five months after a mass shooting...

www.timesunion.com

“Coloradoans deserve to be safe in our communities, in our schools, in our grocery stores, in our nightclubs,” Polis said as he signed the measures in his office. The governor was flanked by activists wearing red shirts reading, “Moms Demand Action," students from a Denver high school recently affected by a shooting, and parents of a woman killed in the Aurora theater shooting in 2012.

Supportive lawmakers and citizens alike had tears in their eyes and roared their applause as Polis signed each bill. Colorado has a history of notorious mass shootings, reaching back to the Columbine High School massacre in 1999.

 

[MyBelle]

And this happened in Houston 2022, a with multiple charges of DV kept getting out and offending over and over

Julian Chavez Houston Texas

JMO

If voters want to keep electing Judges who don't place a value on public safety, that's on them.

From your link:

The District Attorney's Office asked 232nd Criminal District Court Judge Josh Hill to revoke Chavez's bond and deny bail for the latest charge. Instead, Judge Josh Hill set Chavez's bond at $100,000.

Chavez is now a free man.

"She filed a protective order. A protective order is supposed to protect victims from their perpetrators, not leave them in fear of their lives," said domestic violence advocate Chau Nguyen.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Colorado governor signs 4 gun control bills after massacre

Colorado’s governor has signed four gun control bills five months after a mass shooting...

www.timesunion.com

“Coloradoans deserve to be safe in our communities, in our schools, in our grocery stores, in our nightclubs,” Polis said as he signed the measures in his office. The governor was flanked by activists wearing red shirts reading, “Moms Demand Action," students from a Denver high school recently affected by a shooting, and parents of a woman killed in the Aurora theater shooting in 2012.

Supportive lawmakers and citizens alike had tears in their eyes and roared their applause as Polis signed each bill. Colorado has a history of notorious mass shootings, reaching back to the Columbine High School massacre in 1999.

Well done to Colorado. It’s a great start to making things better

 

[MyBelle]

Last summer's federal gun legislation getting results:

President Joe Biden signed the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act last summer, making it a federal crime to traffic in firearms and stiffening penalties for “straw purchases” made on behalf of people who aren’t allowed to own guns.

Since then, new data from federal prosecutors shows they’ve charged 31 people in 17 cases under the new legislation.

DOJ's gun control effort showing progress on straw purchases, gun trafficking

Federal prosecutors are utilizing two new gun laws aimed at gun trafficking to stop the flow of weapons to Mexico, crime scenes.

www.usatoday.com

 

[Lexiintoronto]

“If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.” Abraham Maslow

That’s the quote I think of when I hear that people will only go out if they’re armed. Especially with road rage incidents or people shooting others if they mistakenly drive up to the wrong house or knock at the wrong door.

They’re bypassing all the skills we’ve evolved to have to problem-solve and act civilized. Instead they point and threaten or shoot.

 

[Betty P]

The grandparents that lived in the home of the Uvalde shooter did not know he had recently bought two rifles. He shot his grandmother in the face on his way to the school.
He had purchased the guns 8 days before the shooting.

He was an academically poor student, speech issues
No stable home, lived with grandparents
He had no run-ins with the law.
Social outcast, loner, bullied
Online he was a jerk to women online and where he briefly worked
The girl he contacted was in Germany, he communicated with over social media.

Uvalde has a population of 15K, if the shooter was widely known to be ‘severely mentally unstable’ then his grandparents would have known. The entire city would know.

OR- the law enforcement that was useless during the shooting was just as useless in the city before the shooting. Maybe he had run ins with the law and they failed to act?

Missed Warning Signs at Uvalde

Who would have been the person to provide evidence for a RedFlag on him?
I still do not see clear evidence for a judge to sign such a document, as LE was not involved.
In order to get the evidence a judge would have to sign a warrant for his social media Accounts, that warrant would need probable cause. To find his writings would require another warrant, based on probable cause to search his room. He had no record of actual violence, but had threatened.
He would need to be caught when he went to buy a gun or shortly after- but there was no wait time. He bought two rifles when he turned 18, 8 days before the shooting. What would have kept him from buying?
Am I missing something?
It looks to me like a RedFlag Law in place would not have prevented Uvalde.

These may have caught or deterred or prevented or postponed… but none are in place.
-Gun purchase 21 yr and above
-Restrictions on AR-15s and ammo
-Wait time to purchase- 30 days.

JMO

Agree, in this case none of those restrictions would have made a difference.

Banning assault weapons and high capacity magazines would have helped. So would setting limits on the amounts of ammo people can purchase.

 

[MyBelle]

Agree, in this case none of those restrictions would have made a difference.

Banning assault weapons and high capacity magazines would have helped. So would setting limits on the amounts of ammo people can purchase.

The Uvalde shooter asked family to help him buy making a straw gun purchase. They refused. If there had been a Red Flag law, his family or friends could have alerted the court/LE about threats he was making on social media. A state that refuses to implement such a common sense Red Flag law isn't going to ban assault weapons or high capacity magazines any time soon, imo.

According to the report, the shooter had an "unstable home life," including a mother struggling with substance abuse issues and no father figure. The shooter's family "moved often and lived in relative poverty."

Family members of the shooter knew that he was estranged from his mother and that leading up to his 18th birthday, "he asked for help in making straw gun purchases which would have been illegal."

Family members "uniformly refused to buy guns for him," the report stated.

Live updates: Texas House committee releases Uvalde shooting report

The Texas House committee investigating the Uvalde school shooting released a preliminary investigative report. Follow here for live news updates.

www.cnn.com

 

[Betty P]

The Uvalde shooter asked family to help him buy making a straw gun purchase. They refused. If there had been a Red Flag law, his family or friends could have alerted the court/LE about threats he was making on social media. A state that refuses to implement such a common sense Red Flag law isn't going to ban assault weapons or high capacity magazines any time soon, imo.

According to the report, the shooter had an "unstable home life," including a mother struggling with substance abuse issues and no father figure. The shooter's family "moved often and lived in relative poverty."

Family members of the shooter knew that he was estranged from his mother and that leading up to his 18th birthday, "he asked for help in making straw gun purchases which would have been illegal."

Family members "uniformly refused to buy guns for him," the report stated.

Live updates: Texas House committee releases Uvalde shooting report

The Texas House committee investigating the Uvalde school shooting released a preliminary investigative report. Follow here for live news updates.

www.cnn.com

True, the solution is multiple measures to prevent these mass shootings. The Swiss cheese model of multiple laws and regulations.Each layer in the system to prevent mass shootings catches what another layer missed.

Swiss cheese model - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[imstilla.grandma]

“Run. Hide. Fight.



“Run, hide, fight” is the law enforcement-endorsed response tactic for an active shooter situation. Longo said everybody needs to be prepared for active shooter incidents, as they can happen in any public place, including a business, a school or a theater.

“If you can get out of the building, if you can get away from the shooter, it makes absolutely no sense to stay. So if you can safely escape the kill zone, if you can safely escape the building when the shooter is already inside, then you do so,” Longo said.

“If you can’t because the shooter is between you and the only exit, or you can’t because maybe you have an injury or whatever reason, then you have to hide,” Longo said. “And you have to know the best places to hide. You don’t want to hide someplace where the shooter is going to find you.”

“The last part of that is fight and defend, and please understand that is only a last resort,” Longo said. “When we talk about that part of it, that means that you’re someplace… and somebody stands up with a gun starts firing, what do you do if you are that close to him?… It is to engage the shooter.”

“Run, hide, fight’ — Expert’s advice for surviving an ‘active shooter’ situation

Run, hide, fight” is the law enforcement-endorsed response tactic for an active shooter situation. Former Suffolk County Police Sgt. Donald Longo explains tactics that can save your life.

riverheadlocal.com

 

[10ofRods]

The 4.2% of victimisation crimes in Australia are actually .. (most recent stats July 2021-June 2022)

• 1.9% (386,000) who experienced physical assault
• 2.2% (441,900) who experienced face-to-face threatened assault
• 0.7% (133,700) who experienced non face-to-face threatened assault
• 0.3% (54,200) who experienced robbery
• 0.5% (94,400) who experienced sexual assault (persons aged 18 years and over)

I think that, overall, 'only' 1.9% are physical assaults of some nature, because their stats do not add up to their quoted 4.2%. Presumably robberies and sexual assaults are doubled up, counted separately and in physical assaults. There is some overlap there somewhere.


And all categories are decreasing, except sexual assault. Melt71 is correct that we are not seeing an increase in mass pencil stabbings (or any other kind of stabbings).


View attachment 416974

Crime Victimisation, Australia, 2022-23 financial year

National and state and territory crime rates for assault, threat, robbery, break-in, theft or stealing, property damage and police reporting rates.

www.abs.gov.au

Thank you for that great clarification! I suspect that the US assault figures is only physical assault.

It still appears to me that the US is heavy on gun use (as opposed to another type of assault) and of course, shooting someone is not classified as assault.

I was just looking at stats on child murder in France and Australia - both nations have only a handful, compared to what we have in the US. That takes us in a different direction, because a lot of the child murders are *not* by gun.

"Where are we failing our sons?" That's a very good question for Americans to ask themselves. How are your young males different from those in other countries? They don't play more video games, they don't have a higher rate of mental illness, and I doubt they are more likely to use alcohol and drugs than young men in other developed countries. In my opinion, the difference is it's so very easy for them to get a gun, and their comfort level around guns is so much higher. They have learned from their culture/their parents that owning a gun is a right, not a privilege; that a gun makes them safer, not more at risk; that they need a gun for self defense and to feel powerful/ other methods are not as effective; that the government is to be feared instead of being raised to believe the government passes laws to make everyone safer. It will take at least a generation or two to stamp these myths out of the American psyche. It's not like Australia or Canada where so many people are willing to give up their guns for safety sake. Teach your boys to fear guns... not to admire and show them off. If I had boys, I would not allow them anywhere near a gun until they were adults, and then only for hunting. They're dangerous weapons, not playthings. I know the majority of Canadians feel the same way.

I am going to differ on the alcohol and drug use question. I think alcohol use by young people in the US is at an all time high and has been normalized. Drinking in universities is vastly higher than when I was at university (and lived in several different settings, including a frat).

I totally agree with your analysis about how easy it is for American youth to get access to guns, though. I don't understand the rise in the "comfort level" of having guns laying around one's house, or loaded and in some rack on the wall.

There has been an uptick where I live in unregistered guns in houses, due to so many older people dying and leaving their guns to children and grandchildren (who mostly did not grow up with the gun handling/safety rules of the older people, IMO).

I have no explanation for all the loaded guns left in couch cushions or in cars...

IMO.

 

[Kaley Smith]

Colorado governor signs 4 gun control bills after massacre

Colorado’s governor has signed four gun control bills five months after a mass shooting...

www.timesunion.com

“Coloradoans deserve to be safe in our communities, in our schools, in our grocery stores, in our nightclubs,” Polis said as he signed the measures in his office. The governor was flanked by activists wearing red shirts reading, “Moms Demand Action," students from a Denver high school recently affected by a shooting, and parents of a woman killed in the Aurora theater shooting in 2012.

Supportive lawmakers and citizens alike had tears in their eyes and roared their applause as Polis signed each bill. Colorado has a history of notorious mass shootings, reaching back to the Columbine High School massacre in 1999.

That's good news.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Exactly. If we'd ever happen to see anyone with a gun in Canada, we'd phone 911 ASAP.

That happened yesterday in Toronto. It was a fight, but with a possible gun being involved it shut down parts of the subway. The police issued a warning.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1652418668569960449

 

[housewife]

"She filed a protective order. A protective order is supposed to protect victims from their perpetrators, not leave them in fear of their lives," said domestic violence advocate Chau Nguyen.

RSBM

Castle Rock v. Gonzales demonstrates that police have no obligation to enforce protection orders.
I agree, why have laws if law enforcement doesn't... ya know... ENFORCE them.