General Gun Violence/Gun Control

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Sure, but a knife is more intimate and IME, not as deadly, depending on whether or not the victim can fight back. But also, just because a knife may be available doesn't mean we should make guns more accessible. I'm not sure I understand the drawback to a prolonged waiting period?

MOO.
My point is does making a person who wants to kill innocent people wait a number of days before taking possession of a gun very effective in preventing innocents from being killed?

We've had waiting periods here in California for decades and it doesn't make me feel any safer. JMO.
 
Red Flag laws save lives. Mass killings haven't been via knife.

The suspects in the shootings at a Uvalde, Texas, elementary school and a Buffalo, New York, supermarket were both just 18, authorities say, when they bought the weapons used in the attacks — too young to legally purchase alcohol or cigarettes, but old enough to arm themselves with assault-style weapons.
 
My point is does making a person who wants to kill innocent people wait a number of days before taking possession of a gun very effective in preventing innocents from being killed?

Yes.

That's honestly my professional opinion.

We've had waiting periods here in California for decades and it doesn't make me feel any safer. JMO.

But it not making you "feel" safer isn't the same as it not making you safer. JMO. I really don't see any drawback to it. Will it help? I believe it will. I see only pros and no cons.
 
Yes.

That's honestly my professional opinion.



But it not making you "feel" safer isn't the same as it not making you safer. JMO. I really don't see any drawback to it. Will it help? I believe it will. I see only pros and no cons.
My feelings are based on the violence that is happening in my community.
 
Waiting periods are real. I have no problem with them. I doubt they save very many lives.

Since every life is precious, in my opinion I would like to see miscreants locked up so that many lives are saved. JMO.
 
Murders committed by two people over a period of days in multiple locations isn't remotely comparable to a lone shooter in a single location opening fire with an assault rifle.
To me it's the number of lives lost and not the means. Every life matters. JMO.
 
To me it's the number of lives lost and not the means. Every life matters. JMO.
To all those who marched in peaceful protests, it is very much about the means. Murdering multiple, innocent people with an assault weapon is an incredibly cruel death and can also inflect life-altering injuries. A young boy in Highland Park IL mass shooting during a July 4th Parade went through months of hospitalization, rehab and is now in a wheelchair.

And yet, gunmen are still entering schools and terrorizing students and staff.

 
This thread was started on Monday 3rd April (this is the time that shows in Australia, anyway) - 5 days ago.
Since then, there has been 8 mass shootings. Leaving 3 people dead and 32 people injured.

 
Just one perspective of guns smuggled into Canada:

Where are Ontario’s crime guns coming from? New data shows top U.S. source states


In a recent Ohio case, a criminal network was procuring handguns from private sales and gun shows — at least 200 of them — which were destined for the Greater Toronto Area, according to U.S. court documents.

Just one example ... how many more are there in the USA? How is it that something identified as a criminal network is legally able to purchase guns? And this is just one example of smuggling into Canada :rolleyes:
I’m very sorry that people from the US are doing this to Canada. It’s shameful and dangerous. I’m glad some of them were arrested.

Yes, the gun lobby has become so powerful here that pretty much anyone can buy guns if they have the money. Seldom does anyone pay attention to laws or regulations when it comes to guns and ammo. They’re just not enforced here. It’s insane.
 
Would you also promote elimination of certain types of guns from appearing in movies and video games? Hollywood and video games make a lot of money portraying violence in their products.
I did some research on violent video games and desensitization to violence. That was years ago though. I definitely believe it’s a big problem and contributor to the increase in gun violence, especially in young people who began playing them at a very young age. Jmo

Abstract​

Desensitization, the reduction of cognitive, emotional, and/or behavioral responses to a stimulus, is an automatic and unconscious phenomenon often experienced in everyday life. Exposure to violent media, especially violent video games, may cause desensitization to real-life violence. Desensitization to violence blocks empathy which is needed to trigger the moral reasoning process that triggers prosocial responding. Representative research was reviewed to examine links between exposure to violent video games and desensitization to violence in children and adolescents. It was concluded that exposure to violent video games increases the risk of desensitization to violence, which in turn may increase aggression and decrease prosocial behavior. Parents should be counseled to discuss the differences between real and screen violence, to encourage nonviolent problem-solving, and to provide empathy-building experiences for their children.
 
I would worry about improper reporting and those who would control the process.
How does HIPPA fit into all of this. People have the right to privacy when it comes to health issues. Including mental health. It’s a real conundrum. Imo
 
The Right to keep an bear arms (own firearms) is one of the ten basic rights spelled out in the Bill of Rights which was incorporated into the US Constitution. That right (like the other nine) is an Individual right - that is not a "right" of the state or federal government. The Second Amendment to the Constitution states clearly that this right "shall not be infringed".

The Second Amendment was not conceived for duck hunting or recreational reasons. It was considered to be a necessary right to assure safety and freedom. The American "army" was made up of the civilian population, and the key to an effective militia was individual marksmanship.

Calls to ban various types of firearms have always been countered by the very fact that such a ban or restriction is an infringement on the Second Amendment right to Keep and Bear Arms. Many gun control laws have been struck down later because at their core, they were unconstitutional. Any local, state, or federal law has to be in accord with the US Constitution.

That said, there are laws and restrictions already on the books which regulate or limit firearm ownership. NONE of those laws have ever kept firearms or associated items (such as silencers, magazines, etc.) out of the hands of criminals. The basic idea that someone who is bent on committing armed robbery, or shooting someone is going to be deterred in any way by a gun law is absurd.

Mental illness is by far a more serious and constant factor in the mass killings and civil violence than firearms. It should be noted that there are already many, many restrictions and laws on the books which deny firearm ownership to convicted felons and to mentally ill persons. The problem is that while a criminal conviction is in the public record and would appear in a police background check, the mental illness condition usually does not - unless the person has been legally judged in criminal court as incompetent and/or sentenced to be institutionalized. And even then, the HIPPA laws prohibit medical information from being disseminated, so they would not appear in a firearms background check.

There are many persons whom I have known and whom I would consider unsafe or dangerous with a firearm. However, it is not for me or other individuals or groups of individuals to say who should be denied their constitutional rights. Certainly not based on the actions of criminally deranged and homicidal persons.

Banning all guns or even certain types (however determined) will not change the increasing instances of criminal or homicidal behavior. It would be about the same thing as banning automobiles because some drivers are idiots and don't know how to drive safely. The problem is not the firearm or the automobile, but rather the individual person handling them.

The rise in mass shootings is a very real social problem. But what are the real reasons behind it, and what can be done to prevent or lessen it?

- Mental illness is one major factor which plays a part in almost every (if not all) such shootings. Addressing it as a contributing condition in any criminal court cases might flag violent persons who apply for handgun ownership. State mental health institutions should be built and funded to help deal with this increasing problem. There should be laws and procedures in place which would allow persons suffering from mental illness to be referred and treated short of a court ordered institutionalization, but which might allow them to appear in handgun background checks.

- Violent criminals need to be taken off the streets without bail and when sentenced to incarceration, kept in prison (or a mental institution) without early parole. This addresses the violence problem at its core. If they are a known threat to society, get them out of it.

- A pervading sense of "anything goes" and lawlessness. Such violent events like the city riots, statue destruction, rampant looting and burning of businesses, violence against selected persons all goes into this problem - especially when it is publicly encouraged by legislators. Those same legislators who in turn blame "guns" as the problem have no credibility.

- The "open borders" of the country need to be closed and persons entering the country need to be properly screened. Human traffic and drug smugglers at the borders are all armed and none of them are concerned with American gun laws. It is, in fact, an armed incursion by a foreign force which should be dealt with as such.

- Drugs (especially Fentanyl) are a huge problem which must be addressed. How many mass shootings were done by persons under the influence of drugs or alcohol has never been made known, but it is very likely a contributing factor. Mass shootings and other violence aside, more Americans have died in the past year alone of Fentanyl poisoning than all shooting deaths in the past ten or twenty years combined. This should be a huge wake up call for action.

- Violent video games are another element which have contributed to some of the mass shootings. Why has no one suggested banning or restricting them? Certainly other concerned persons have pointed this out, but there is no large scale movement to restrict them like there is to ban or restrict gun ownership.
 
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The Right to keep an bear arms (own firearms) is one of the ten basic rights spelled out in the Bill of Rights which was incorporated into the US Constitution. That right (like the other nine) is an Individual right - that is not a "right" of the state or federal government. The Second Amendment to the Constitution states clearly that this right "shall not be infringed".

The Second Amendment was not conceived for duck hunting or recreational reasons. It was considered to be a necessary right to assure safety and freedom. The American "army" was made up of the civilian population, and the key to an effective militia was individual marksmanship.

Calls to ban various types of firearms have always been countered by the very fact that such a ban or restriction is an infringement on the Second Amendment right to Keep and Bear Arms. Many gun control laws have been struck down later because at their core, they were unconstitutional. Any local, state, or federal law has to be in accord with the US Constitution.

That said, there are laws and restrictions already on the books which regulate or limit firearm ownership. NONE of those laws have ever kept firearms or associated items (such as silencers, magazines, etc.) out of the hands of criminals. The basic idea that someone who is bent on committing armed robbery, or shooting someone is going to be deterred in any way by a gun law is absurd.

Mental illness is by far a more serious and constant factor in the mass killings and civil violence than firearms. It should be noted that there are already many, many restrictions and laws on the books which deny firearm ownership to convicted felons and to mentally ill persons. The problem is that while a criminal conviction is in the public record and would appear in a police background check, the mental illness condition usually does not - unless the person has been legally judged in criminal court as incompetent and/or sentenced to be institutionalized. And even then, the HIPPA laws prohibit medical information from being disseminated, so they would not appear in a firearms background check.

There are many persons whom I have known and whom I would consider unsafe or dangerous with a firearm. However, it is not for me or other individuals or groups of individuals to say who should be denied their constitutional rights. Certainly not based on the actions of criminally deranged and homicidal persons.

Banning all guns or even certain types (however determined) will not change the increasing instances of criminal or homicidal behavior. It would be about the same thing as banning automobiles because some drivers are idiots and don't know how to drive safely. The problem is not the firearm or the automobile, but rather the individual person handling them.

The rise in mass shootings is a very real social problem. But what are the real reasons behind it, and what can be done to prevent or lessen it?

- Mental illness is one major factor which plays a part in almost every (if not all) such shootings. Addressing it as a contributing condition in any criminal court cases might flag violent persons who apply for handgun ownership. State mental health institutions should be built and funded to help deal with this increasing problem.

- Violent criminals need to be taken off the streets without bail and when sentenced to incarceration, kept in prison (or a mental institution) without early parole.

- A pervading sense of "anything goes" and lawlessness. Such violent events like the city riots, statue destruction, rampant looting and burning of businesses, violence against selected persons all goes into this problem - especially when it is publicly encouraged by legislators. Legislators who in turn blame "guns" as the problem.

- The "open borders" of the country need to be closed and persons entering the country need to be properly screened. Human traffic and drug smugglers at the borders are all armed and none of them are concerned with American gun laws. It is, in fact, an armed incursion by a foreign force which should be dealt with as such.

- Drugs (especially Fentanyl) are a huge problem which must be addressed. How many mass shootings were done by persons under the influence of drugs or alcohol has never been made known, but it is very likely a contributing factor. Mass shootings and other violence aside, more Americans have died in the past year alone of Fentanyl poisoning than all shooting deaths in the past ten or twenty years combined. This should be a huge wake up call for action.

- Violent video games are another element which have contributed to some of the mass shootings. Why has no one suggested banning or restricting them?
Such a great post!
 
The Right to keep an bear arms (own firearms) is one of the ten basic rights spelled out in the Bill of Rights which was incorporated into the US Constitution. That right (like the other nine) is an Individual right - that is not a "right" of the state or federal government. The Second Amendment to the Constitution states clearly that this right "shall not be infringed".

The Second Amendment was not conceived for duck hunting or recreational reasons. It was considered to be a necessary right to assure safety and freedom. The American "army" was made up of the civilian population, and the key to an effective militia was individual marksmanship.

Calls to ban various types of firearms have always been countered by the very fact that such a ban or restriction is an infringement on the Second Amendment right to Keep and Bear Arms. Many gun control laws have been struck down later because at their core, they were unconstitutional. Any local, state, or federal law has to be in accord with the US Constitution.

That said, there are laws and restrictions already on the books which regulate or limit firearm ownership. NONE of those laws have ever kept firearms or associated items (such as silencers, magazines, etc.) out of the hands of criminals. The basic idea that someone who is bent on committing armed robbery, or shooting someone is going to be deterred in any way by a gun law is absurd.

Mental illness is by far a more serious and constant factor in the mass killings and civil violence than firearms. It should be noted that there are already many, many restrictions and laws on the books which deny firearm ownership to convicted felons and to mentally ill persons. The problem is that while a criminal conviction is in the public record and would appear in a police background check, the mental illness condition usually does not - unless the person has been legally judged in criminal court as incompetent and/or sentenced to be institutionalized. And even then, the HIPPA laws prohibit medical information from being disseminated, so they would not appear in a firearms background check.

There are many persons whom I have known and whom I would consider unsafe or dangerous with a firearm. However, it is not for me or other individuals or groups of individuals to say who should be denied their constitutional rights. Certainly not based on the actions of criminally deranged and homicidal persons.

Banning all guns or even certain types (however determined) will not change the increasing instances of criminal or homicidal behavior. It would be about the same thing as banning automobiles because some drivers are idiots and don't know how to drive safely. The problem is not the firearm or the automobile, but rather the individual person handling them.

The rise in mass shootings is a very real social problem. But what are the real reasons behind it, and what can be done to prevent or lessen it?

- Mental illness is one major factor which plays a part in almost every (if not all) such shootings. Addressing it as a contributing condition in any criminal court cases might flag violent persons who apply for handgun ownership. State mental health institutions should be built and funded to help deal with this increasing problem. There should be laws and procedures in place which would allow persons suffering from mental illness to be referred and treated short of a court ordered institutionalization, but which might allow them to appear in handgun background checks.

- Violent criminals need to be taken off the streets without bail and when sentenced to incarceration, kept in prison (or a mental institution) without early parole. This addresses the violence problem at its core. If they are a known threat to society, get them out of it.

- A pervading sense of "anything goes" and lawlessness. Such violent events like the city riots, statue destruction, rampant looting and burning of businesses, violence against selected persons all goes into this problem - especially when it is publicly encouraged by legislators. Those same legislators who in turn blame "guns" as the problem have no credibility.

- The "open borders" of the country need to be closed and persons entering the country need to be properly screened. Human traffic and drug smugglers at the borders are all armed and none of them are concerned with American gun laws. It is, in fact, an armed incursion by a foreign force which should be dealt with as such.

- Drugs (especially Fentanyl) are a huge problem which must be addressed. How many mass shootings were done by persons under the influence of drugs or alcohol has never been made known, but it is very likely a contributing factor. Mass shootings and other violence aside, more Americans have died in the past year alone of Fentanyl poisoning than all shooting deaths in the past ten or twenty years combined. This should be a huge wake up call for action.

- Violent video games are another element which have contributed to some of the mass shootings. Why has no one suggested banning or restricting them? Certainly other concerned persons have pointed this out, but there is no large scale movement to restrict them like there is to ban or restrict gun ownership.
BBM. It can be mental illness or can be the impulsiveness and immaturity related to age. Almost all of the mass shootings that have killed or injured large numbers such as Columbine, Uvalde or Highland Park, have involved young people. Is an 18-year-old really mature enough to own an assault rifle, much less use it if they have no law enforcement or military training? I don't believe they are.

Red Flag laws do work yet only 19 states have them. Making laws to protect public safety is a politician's job and if they are unwilling, they will be voted out of office by those thousands of protestors, their families and friends. That's just my opinion but it seems the Nashville Mayor agrees with me:

"These kinds of extreme risk laws, often known as red flag laws, would have likely prevented or affected the last three mass shootings here in Nashville. That's remarkable. One is Covenant School last week, one at the Waffle House in 2018 and one at Burnett Chapel Church of Christ in 2017," Cooper said.

 
Yes.

That's honestly my professional opinion.



But it not making you "feel" safer isn't the same as it not making you safer. JMO. I really don't see any drawback to it. Will it help? I believe it will. I see only pros and no cons.

Just to chime, I live in California and everyone I know feels safer with our gun laws. I posted a map upthread - we have a lower than average rate of gun violence here, despite having gangs, proximity to the border, and, what's more, criminal gun running along the coast of SoCal.

My county recently banned private gun shows (yay), closing another loophole.

So even if some people feel less safe, I feel safer. I do own a gun, purchased legally, and I took classes in gun safety before bringing it home. We store it safely (we have two grandkids).

At any rate, that map on gun-produced homicides upthread shows that states with stronger gun control generally have fewer death-by-gun incidents.

That's my professional opinion, as well. I think we should be teaching students in school the facts about gun control.
 
Until the US figures out a way for background checkers to have access to your mental health history, unwell people will continue to buy guns simply by answering 'no' on the mental illness question. But we have strong laws from Congress that keep our health information as secure as possible. First we have to figure out how to do it, then we have to wait for Congress to amend laws or write new laws. Obviously, this would take years, possibly a decade or longer.
 
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