General Theories and Motives Rehashed #1

[kamky]

I brought this over from the Levi Page Show thread, because it summarizes a theory which is based upon one of the comments from Grandma Hollars:

I've been thinking more about the shocker from GMH that Misty was in on the gun theft with Joe & Tommy and that Joe was going to sell the gun and that all three were going to split the proceeds. This makes me think a number of things:
1) Misty was not really very scared of cousin Joe since she was willing to go in on a business deal with him to get some money.
2) The earlier "gun theft" was an earlier attempt by the three of them to steal one of Ron's guns for profit. But Ron discovered it missing too quickly, so Misty conveniently found it to diffuse the incident.
3) When Tommy came over to the MH during the late afternoon of the 9th (after Ron went to work), plans were have been made for a new, improved version of the gun theft for later that night.
4) This time a gun was taken, but Haleigh was also taken and the scene staged to look like a kidnapping. In order to be unaware of what was going on, the little girl was given some drugs to make her sleep.
5) The original intent was to leave Haleigh in some safe place where she could have been easily found the next day. They expected she would not be able to recall what happened. But the drugs overwhelmed her system and then they had a major problem.

 

[Donjeta]

I'm morbid enough to wonder if "gun theft plan" isn't code for "child kidnapping plan".

 

[Whisperer]

Didn't the assault gun belong to a neighbor or was supposed to be given to a certain person who used to live next door to rc when he lived on Monroe/Buchanen? RC was going to bring it to him after the TM episode about the suicide or murder but rc never showed up...The poster stated this in the rumor thread..??

 

[Indiana at Heart]

Didn't the assault gun belong to a neighbor or was supposed to be given to a certain person who used to live next door to rc when he lived on Monroe/Buchanen? RC was going to bring it to him after the TM episode about the suicide or murder but rc never showed up...The poster stated this in the rumor thread..??

Your right I remeber this.

 

[Whisperer]

I will have to go back and listen again to the tapes and hear rc's lies about the gun, theft and recovery...and then hear him tell no fight happened over no gun. Ever get the impression rc owed JO? Drugs and guns again.

....grrrr, why did that judge let rc have these children? He had an affidavit about rc and was told the children would be in danger if they were with rc, which reminds me, rc got in a wreck also...and left the scene of an accident with injuries...IIRC.

Seems like these players are drunk, stoned all the time and they all have guns and drive cars like they live on the field of the demolition derby.

....And I sit here wondering why our precious Haleigh is deceased.

 

[Peliman]

Didn't the assault gun belong to a neighbor or was supposed to be given to a certain person who used to live next door to rc when he lived on Monroe/Buchanen? RC was going to bring it to him after the TM episode about the suicide or murder but rc never showed up...The poster stated this in the rumor thread..??

I third that and remember the neighbors claims. Tim Miller also saw the gun RC took out of the closet RC put his mouth over and made threats. My question was/is, where was it that night? If this was some big plan to make money, did RC move the rifle that night? Keep it in his trunk? Take it to work or whatever he did that evening?

 

[Whisperer]

Well, we know it wound up at Granny's because that is where TM saw it. I doubt rc wouldl have it in the open inside the tent. It wasn't in the Altima because that is the car he was driving to work (allegedly) If it was in the home, it was hidden...and taken out under a cover of laundry or something. However; I wonder if it was with rc at PDM that night, He would guard it because he couldn't trust misty, her brother or JO. Did rc drive a different car to work? I know he used the red truck frequently but he also had another old white truck. We have seen a pick of that truck located on Rita Lane backed into a port with another old car covering it. The LE didn't take any guns to my kge that night but I bet he hid them all. Does anyone think he took all of his guns outta there before he went to work?

In reading about the muses of the drug trade, rc liked to try to confuse the LE (I was cracking up reading it) with go in the bathroom, and I'll leave it in there; they would go into the woods and act like they had the drugs in the bushes. rc may have hid his guns in the same manner. Misty and he were about the stupidest drug dealers to date. The guns could have been in the car he took to work and hid them on the way home and retrieved them later.

If he were drinking, anything could happen; many terrible crimes have been committed by an alcoholic. I think rc has a problem with liquer. I have no proof but thinks he does. He may be the type that gets out of control and violent when drinking. He seemed like he was drinking on the 911 call.

 

[Whisperer]

While we are discussing ideas and theories, does anyone know who helped Amber get out of the mud (She had borrowed Nay's car) Whoever pushed her out had a very large front end because he left a horizantal large crease across tha entire back of the blue lincoln, making the trunk useless. It would be good to know who helped her, when did they help her and where this occurred. That trunk was operating three days before Haleigh vanished because misty's clothes were put in the trunk after rc brought them to San mateo and threw them on Dianes' lawn.

...The car was abandoned and taken for scrape, I read..

 

[nomoresorrow]

I will have to go back and listen again to the tapes and hear rc's lies about the gun, theft and recovery...and then hear him tell no fight happened over no gun. Ever get the impression rc owed JO? Drugs and guns again.

....grrrr, why did that judge let rc have these children? He had an affidavit about rc and was told the children would be in danger if they were with rc, which reminds me, rc got in a wreck also...and left the scene of an accident with injuries...IIRC.

Seems like these players are drunk, stoned all the time and they all have guns and drive cars like they live on the field of the demolition derby.

....And I sit here wondering why our precious Haleigh is deceased.

The things that you point out Whisp, inparticular regarding Ronald, are at the core of why I am now convinced that there was at one time a working relationship between RC and LE. Although at the core, they are not the only reason for my opinion on this of late; After the latest search at the river, which, dispite all the hoop-la about upcoming arrests... went nowhere - again, I am convinced that there is something else much deeper at work here and it certainly isn't (and cannot be) the genious of a bunch of under-educated and socially unsophiscated individuals. I agree they may all be extremely street-smart and no doubt they have the ability to con-a-con, but not a one of them have the fortitude to out-smart LE - not even all of them put together. Matter of fact, the chances of this bunch, as a group, being able to keep a secret and carry something like this off, make it even less likely with their combined non-intellect. There is something much more (than any of us know about) behind the scenes and I think it has more to do with LE's fear of exposing past departmental unethical and questionable practices regarding the handling of their informants. When I read the following, I couldn't help but notice several things that may very well be applicable in this case, regarding RC & LE;

(BBM)
Confidential informants are crucial to many law enforcement investigations and are especially essential in the field of narcotics investigations. Informants can provide specific information that is simply not available from other sources. However, the informants are often criminals themselves; if not properly managed, they can render a law enforcement investigation useless, destroy an agency’s credibility, and even endanger officers’ lives. To use confidential informants successfully, agencies must develop formal and sound informant control procedures.

Sometimes informants mistakenly consider their working relationship with investigators to be a genuine friendship. They may divulge information about themselves that investigators must evaluate. Officers need to remember their agency’s policy and their training when using their own judgment to weigh any self-incriminating information informants may provide against information sought regarding the investigative target.

Officers must ensure that informants understand the provisions of their agreement with the agency, emphasizing that informants are not law enforcement officers, have no arrest powers, are not permitted to conduct searches and seizures, and may not carry a weapon.

Because informants may attempt to continue to use and deal drugs and commit other crimes in their neighborhoods while providing intelligence to the police, investigators must make it clear that they will not tolerate any further violations and that informants will be arrested if found continuing to engage in illegal activities.

http://policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=display_arch&article_id=1210&issue_id=62007

Just my opinion but I think that this may be a huge factor in this case ----

 

[Dr.Fessel]

According to the Cobra tapes Ron was putting his gun up in his room and the girl that gave Joe a ride to FL saw Ron go in his room.

That is why Ron thought it was Joe that had stolen the gun.

I think if a gun was stolen then it was probably Tommy that did it since we know he steals them.

 

[aoibhinn]

The things that you point out Whisp, inparticular regarding Ronald, are at the core of why I am now convinced that there was at one time a working relationship between RC and LE. Although at the core, they are not the only reason for my opinion on this of late; After the latest search at the river, which, dispite all the hoop-la about upcoming arrests... went nowhere - again, I am convinced that there is something else much deeper at work here and it certainly isn't (and cannot be) the genious of a bunch of under-educated and socially unsophiscated individuals. I agree they may all be extremely street-smart and no doubt they have the ability to con-a-con, but not a one of them have the fortitude to out-smart LE - not even all of them put together. Matter of fact, the chances of this bunch, as a group, being able to keep a secret and carry something like this off, make it even less likely with their combined non-intellect. There is something much more (than any of us know about) behind the scenes and I think it has more to do with LE's fear of exposing past departmental unethical and questionable practices regarding the handling of their informants. When I read the following, I couldn't help but notice several things that may very well be applicable in this case, regarding RC & LE;

(BBM)
Confidential informants are crucial to many law enforcement investigations and are especially essential in the field of narcotics investigations. Informants can provide specific information that is simply not available from other sources. However, the informants are often criminals themselves; if not properly managed, they can render a law enforcement investigation useless, destroy an agency’s credibility, and even endanger officers’ lives. To use confidential informants successfully, agencies must develop formal and sound informant control procedures.

Sometimes informants mistakenly consider their working relationship with investigators to be a genuine friendship. They may divulge information about themselves that investigators must evaluate. Officers need to remember their agency’s policy and their training when using their own judgment to weigh any self-incriminating information informants may provide against information sought regarding the investigative target.

Officers must ensure that informants understand the provisions of their agreement with the agency, emphasizing that informants are not law enforcement officers, have no arrest powers, are not permitted to conduct searches and seizures, and may not carry a weapon.

Because informants may attempt to continue to use and deal drugs and commit other crimes in their neighborhoods while providing intelligence to the police, investigators must make it clear that they will not tolerate any further violations and that informants will be arrested if found continuing to engage in illegal activities.

http://policechiefmagazine.org/magazine/index.cfm?fuseaction=display_arch&article_id=1210&issue_id=62007

Just my opinion but I think that this may be a huge factor in this case ----

A criminal who has been cleared of criminal charges or who is having a court case interminably delayed is the hallmark of a snitch.

Ron has been caught with small quantities of Class A's - meth, cocaine, heroin, opium and pills - and was not charged. While this would not be unusual where I live (they want to catch real dealers, not addicts), it would seem to be unusual in the States. So a lack of a conviction in this instance could be due to one of two things; either his mother's association with LE or or Ron was telling stories about other criminals to the cops.

 

[kamky]

A criminal who has been cleared of criminal charges or who is having a court case interminably delayed is the hallmark of a snitch.

Ron has been caught with small quantities of Class A's - meth, cocaine, heroin, opium and pills - and was not charged. While this would not be unusual where I live (they want to catch real dealers, not addicts), it would seem to be unusual in the States. So a lack of a conviction in this instance could be due to one of two things; either his mother's association with LE or or Ron was telling stories about other criminals to the cops.

It appears that Ron's mother's association with LE was not very strong. She was a dispatcher for a different FL county and not for very long, from what we have been able to tell. I do agree with your point. But FL locals have told us that FL has been soft on small and lower echelon drug users and on small crimes. I would imagine that this has to do with costs and crowding in jails. Hopefully, they are cracking down, in part due to the publicity of this crime and the surrounding circumstances. There have been rumors since the beginning of this case that Ron was an informant. Whether this is true, I don't know.

 

[aoibhinn]

It appears that Ron's mother's association with LE was not very strong. She was a dispatcher for a different FL county and not for very long, from what we have been able to tell. I do agree with your point. But FL locals have told us that FL has been soft on small and lower echelon drug users and on small crimes. I would imagine that this has to do with costs and crowding in jails. Hopefully, they are cracking down, in part due to the publicity of this crime and the surrounding circumstances. There have been rumors since the beginning of this case that Ron was an informant. Whether this is true, I don't know.

If TN's ties with LE were not strong then it's very likely he was carrying tales to the police to save his own *ss. I didn't make note of the quantities he was in possesion of when he was arrested but he seemed to have some of everything. Talk about not caring what you put in your body! I know it also makes a difference if the drugs appear to be bagged for sale or personal use.

 

[kamky]

According to the Cobra tapes Ron was putting his gun up in his room and the girl that gave Joe a ride to FL saw Ron go in his room.

That is why Ron thought it was Joe that had stolen the gun.

I think if a gun was stolen then it was probably Tommy that did it since we know he steals them.

Your post made me stop and think. I read in a previous post (don't remember which thread), that Misty was thought to have been involved in a theft with Tommy. It was probably the theft of the neighbor's house on Tyler St. This rings true to me since some of the items taken were towels and soap. Their mother was charged with theft (of checks), and they both had the same parental infuence. Neither Tommy nor Misty had much money and both craved drugs. GMH stated that Misty was in on the theft of Ron's gun for profit. Putting this all together, it would not be surprising to find that both Misty and Tommy were in on the theft of Ron's gun.

We don't know much about Joe's situation other than statements from the Croslins. But from his myspace page, there is evidence of a fascination with guns. It certainly is possible that Joe was involved also.

 

[aoibhinn]

But from his myspace page, there is evidence of a fascination with guns. It certainly is possible that Joe was involved also.

^^ respectfully snipped

With the rise of rap music and the influence of gangster culture on today's young people, this is very common. The MTV generation are confronted with this lifestyle continously and it's a very bad influence. It appeals to youngsters who feel that regular society has nothing to offer, often from exactly the type of background that this particular group of young people are from.

 

[Baznme]

Your post made me stop and think. I read in a previous post (don't remember which thread), that Misty was thought to have been involved in a theft with Tommy. It was probably the theft of the neighbor's house on Tyler St. This rings true to me since some of the items taken were towels and soap. Their mother was charged with theft (of checks), and they both had the same parental infuence. Neither Tommy nor Misty had much money and both craved drugs. GMH stated that Misty was in on the theft of Ron's gun for profit. Putting this all together, it would not be surprising to find that both Misty and Tommy were in on the theft of Ron's gun.

We don't know much about Joe's situation other than statements from the Croslins. But from his myspace page, there is evidence of a fascination with guns. It certainly is possible that Joe was involved also.

Just a guess on my part but....we know that Joe was liking his guns just from the MS page we've seen. Isn't it just possible that RC got the rifle from Joe but hadn't paid him yet? Joe went to the MH that night for either the money or the gun before leaving town the next day? We also know that Ron has a habit of hiding guns. Where is that gun now?

 

[1Chump]

This is a trivial, aspect in this case, but it has really bothered me. How could it have taken 30-45 minutes to cook a can of Chef Boyardee ravioli ? Maybe she made corn bread and a cake too?

LOL. I go to the trivial also. I keep thinking how did GGma Sykes see the kids eating on the porch at 7 or 7:30 pm, Misty talks about Haleigh watched her moive and Junior watched his movie. I cannot figure out if it was before they were put to bed at 8 or while in bed. But every time I read/hear about the movies, I think what movies did they watch that both kids watched their own movie yet were asleep when Misty went to bed at 10 pm.

 

[1Chump]

Ron`s lawyer claims Ron and Misty had been in touch during the evening. The lawyer says Ron called Hank`s house at around 9 p.m. just to see if Misty was there.

HARRIS: ...In fact, my sources say that he did not speak with her after 8:30. They had a fight on the phone. He did not speak with her until 3 a.m., when he came home.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0909/23/ijvm.01.html

If Ron talked to Misty at 8:30 pm and she was at the MH. Why did he call Hank's house at 9 pm trying to find her?

 

[aoibhinn]

If Ron talked to Misty at 8:30 pm and she was at the MH. Why did he call Hank's house at 9 pm trying to find her?

The story is that they spoke at 8:30 and had a argument. Misty switched off her phone. Ron kept trying to call her and finally called Tommy to see if she had gone over there. Misty didn't switch on her phone again until 3:10am.

 

[1Chump]

IMO, JO should have been the easiest one to eliminate or include him as a suspect.

On February 21, 2009, it was reported that Captain Dick Schauland was asked point-blank about whether the man known as "Joe' in Tennessee was a suspect or PO, and Schauland said he wasn't. Then he went on and said "everyone was a supect."

IMO, they cleared Joe immediately. I don't think they would clear if there was any chance. That makes me think from the beginning they had an idea of what happened but could not prove it. I don't think anything has changed with Joe except the media.

Yes, LE did go talk to Joe but IMO it was not directly about Haleigh but to discuss stories where LE thinks Joe's name is being used in place of someone else's.