George Floyd death / Derek Chauvin trial - Sidebar week 2

[Percepitess]

I am wondering with the underlying heart disease if he ever had stent placement or just the 90% blockage that wasn't treated.

 

[shotgun09]

I am wondering with the underlying heart disease if he ever had stent placement or just the 90% blockage that wasn't treated.

Welcome to Websleuths, Percepitess!
IMO, if there were any stents placed previously, the ME performing the autopsy would have noted that in his report as well as on the stand today. I believe that GF had 4 different areas of blockages noted, and all were untreated. It remains to be seen if he was ever diagnosed with these blockages before his death.

 

[MsBetsy]

I am wondering with the underlying heart disease if he ever had stent placement or just the 90% blockage that wasn't treated.

According to his girlfriend, he appeared to be healthy and was very active in the years before his death. He played sports and worked out regularly. I think he was only aware of the high blood pressure.

 

[Gibbo214]

I am wondering with the underlying heart disease if he ever had stent placement or just the 90% blockage that wasn't treated.

Lots of men who do not go to the doctor regularly are walking around with cardiovascular disease like that. problems which are easily controlled with treatment.

 

[mickey2942]

Lots of men who do not go to the doctor regularly are walking around with cardiovascular disease like that. problems which are easily controlled with treatment.

GF probably didn't have access to comprehensive health care. So, it is unlikely he received treatment for any medical issues. Or even had tests to identify problems.

 

[Gibbo214]

GF probably didn't have access to comprehensive health care. So, it is unlikely he received treatment for any medical issues. Or even had tests to identify problems.

Even where I live and have universal health care, men just do not go to the doctors regularly like women do for pap smears and the like. Until they have problems.

 

[SouthAussie]

I am wondering with the underlying heart disease if he ever had stent placement or just the 90% blockage that wasn't treated.

Any blockage George had is said to have made his death more likely from officer-induced asphyxiation, and not be the cause of his death at that time.


The death certificate's "other significant conditions" -- Floyd's natural heart disease and the presence of drugs of abuse in his tested blood -- do not excuse the officers, nor should they cause anyone to blame the victim. They are there on the death certificate because those findings, in the opinion of the medical examiner, would have made his death more likely. They are not the cause of death. The cause of death is police restraint.

Judy Melinek MD - forensic pathologist and CEO of PathologyExpert Inc
https://www.medpagetoday.com/blogs/working-stiff/86913

 

[delilah]

I am wondering with the underlying heart disease if he ever had stent placement or just the 90% blockage that wasn't treated.

I think Dr Baker confirmed in his evidence that GF had not had stents inserted.

 

[delilah]

All the evidence from the prosecution’s medical experts points to GF not dying of an overdose. The only thing that bothered me about that is why was GF apparently foaming at the mouth at 20:14? That is a typical sign of an OD.

Keung: Are you on something right now? Cos you acting erratic...You got foam around your mouth too...’
GF: ‘Yes, I was just hoopin’ earlier...’
Keung’s body cam, 20:14

However, looking again at the body cam evidence, it doesn’t look to me like he’s foaming at the mouth at all. It just looks like a bit of excess saliva.

No OD IMO.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

DAY 10 TRIAL 4/9/2021
FRIDAY
(NOTE - SOME OUTLETS CALL IT DAY 22)​

34) Dr. Lindsey Thomas - Forensic Pathologist - Retired from Hennepin County, was Dr. Andrew Baker's mentor
35) Dr. Andrew Baker - Hennepin County ME who did GF autopsy

RECENT MEDIA LAST 24 HOURS​

USA Today -
Derek Chauvin trial live: George Floyd died from low oxygen due to officers' restraint, forensic pathologist says
Derek Chauvin trial live: George Floyd death from low oxygen discussed

CNN - Inside Cup Foods, where it seems George Floyd never left - CNN
(Good journalistic investigative follow-up reporting must read MOO)

Unilad (UK) - Medical Examiner Says Police Officers’ Actions Were Direct Cause Of George Floyd’s Death, Not Drugs

Washington Post - https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...f57e7c-9623-11eb-962b-78c1d8228819_story.html

ET online - George Clooney Emails George Floyd's Family Lawyer With Blunt Advice

Atlanta Journal Constitution - ‘Blue wall of silence’ takes hit in Chauvin’s murder trial

New York Times - Police officers, not drugs, caused George Floyd’s death, a pathologist testifies.

CBS News - Derek Chauvin Trial 4/9/21: Medical examiner says heart disease, drugs contributed to but didn't cause George Floyd's death

 

[Simply Southern]

They could have been tainted, cross contaminated or whatever. Scary the realization that people can buy what they think is one thing only to be contaminated with something else. A risk you take with street drugs and something FDA tries to educate people on but the truth is when you purchase anywhere other than a legal pharmacy you simply do not know what you’re buying or consuming. IMO
ETA how do we make sense of GF’s toxicology report vs whatever drugs his may have been cut with? What else was in the cocktail and what would the fallout resemble? IMO

Pharmaceutical fentanyl is a synthetic opioid, approved for treating severe pain, typically advanced cancer pain.1 It is 50 to 100 times more potent than morphine. {snipped}

However, most recent cases of fentanyl-related harm, overdose, and death in the U.S. are linked to illegally made fentanyl.2 It is sold through illegal drug markets for its heroin-like effect. It is often mixed with heroin and/or cocaine as a combination product—with or without the user’s knowledge—to increase its euphoric effects.

Overdose deaths involving synthetic opioids were nearly 12 times higher in 2019 than in 2013. More than 36,000 people died from overdoses involving synthetic opioids in 2019.

Fentanyl | Drug Overdose | CDC Injury Center

MOO...we'll be hearing more about the drugs found and hopefully an analysis. Waiting on Chapter II...The Defence

 

[Simply Southern]

He had THC in his system also but it could not be ascertained when it got there. CPR can release THC stored in fat cells.
I THINK it was the same witness in the link that gave that testimony today.

BBM...I'm a Certified Advance Life Support Instructor.
I've never heard or seen any information to support ...
CPR can release THC stored in fat cells.

I am most interested in a source/literature/link that supports this.

Thanks so much...

 

[Gibbo214]

Pharmaceutical fentanyl is a synthetic opioid, approved for treating severe pain, typically advanced cancer pain.1 It is 50 to 100 times more potent than morphine. {snipped}

However, most recent cases of fentanyl-related harm, overdose, and death in the U.S. are linked to illegally made fentanyl.2 It is sold through illegal drug markets for its heroin-like effect. It is often mixed with heroin and/or cocaine as a combination product—with or without the user’s knowledge—to increase its euphoric effects.

Overdose deaths involving synthetic opioids were nearly 12 times higher in 2019 than in 2013. More than 36,000 people died from overdoses involving synthetic opioids in 2019.

Fentanyl | Drug Overdose | CDC Injury Center

MOO...we'll be hearing more about the drugs found and hopefully an analysis. Waiting on Chapter II...The Defence

Both autopsies said that he did not die of an overdose.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

BBM...I'm a Certified Advance Life Support Instructor.
I've never heard or seen any information to support ...
CPR can release THC stored in fat cells.

I am most interested in a source/literature/link that supports this.

Thanks so much...

Anything that creates in the body a need for reserves will release what is in fat cells perhaps. At the biochemical level? Perhaps a scientific fact, but not significant. It's a *squirrel* as to impact on this case MOO

 

[Simply Southern]

He testified that the average fentanyl level in the DUI samples NMS labs received, where fentanyl was present was 9.59 ng/ml, and the median level was 5.3 ng/ml.

This is less than the 11 ng/ml in Mr Floyd's antemortem hospital blood sample.

https://www.google.com/url?q=https:...FjAAegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw3YZg28hqpr4e20bDc_ub9_

MOO.. I think we will see statistical data, studies and research (much of which is on the CDC website) verses physician "opinion" from the defense.

I was a little disappointed the physicians, ME based their judgment without supporting documentation.
All my opinion....

 

[MsBetsy]

Pharmaceutical fentanyl is a synthetic opioid, approved for treating severe pain, typically advanced cancer pain.1 It is 50 to 100 times more potent than morphine. {snipped}

However, most recent cases of fentanyl-related harm, overdose, and death in the U.S. are linked to illegally made fentanyl.2 It is sold through illegal drug markets for its heroin-like effect. It is often mixed with heroin and/or cocaine as a combination product—with or without the user’s knowledge—to increase its euphoric effects.

Overdose deaths involving synthetic opioids were nearly 12 times higher in 2019 than in 2013. More than 36,000 people died from overdoses involving synthetic opioids in 2019.

Fentanyl | Drug Overdose | CDC Injury Center

MOO...we'll be hearing more about the drugs found and hopefully an analysis. Waiting on Chapter II...The Defence

The toxicologist testified that the level of norfentanyl in Floyd's system was not consistent with a typical fentanyl overdose. We also heard from Dr. Baker that none of the drug was found in his stomach. Due to the fact that much of the fentanyl had already been metabolized and he was not showing signs of an acute overdose, I think it's pretty clear that he did not consume enough fentanyl during his arrest to play a significant factor in his death.

Dr. Baker also testified that the COD was not an overdose. He seemed to think his heart condition played a larger role. He said the exertion of the arrest was likely more than he could handle, and likely increased his heart rate and adrenaline levels while placing greater demand on his breathing.

Yet Floyd was able to play basketball, football, and lift weights without ever having a heart attack.

If Floyd had not had his neck and back kneeled on for nine minutes he likely would have been alive today, and possibly for the next thirty years with proper medical care.

Imo

 

[dixiegirl1035]

MOO.. I think we will see statistical data, studies and research (much of which is on the CDC website) verses physician "opinion" from the defense.I was a little disappointed the physicians, ME based their judgment without supporting documentation.
All my opinion....

How many jurors perhaps are able to discern medical documents and create an opinion that is more well learned to evaluate and dispute on the jury do you think? (Whether presented by the defense or the prosecution). We at WS struggle to understand medical docs... so it's the opinions of experts in trials. Yes, they often disagree, and we shall see what the defense has to offer.

Do you think that the jurors should go back with perhaps 10 medical studies as laypersons and create an opinion with NO background in science (one nurse on jury).

That's analagous to folks in February... to now... saying COVID is a hoax??? as they do not understand science or ????

They gave their references as to "evidence" for their basis... although not going to the jury their references. MOO







Have you followed other cases where they have submitted multiple journal articles and textbooks to jury for them to decipher? I'm interested as I've never seen, but nonwithstanding haven't followed where such has happened and would like to learn.

TIA

 

[shotgun09]

Has a witness list been released for this trial? I am curious on who the defense has coming. ( Besides Mr Hall )

 

[Simply Southern]

GF probably didn't have access to comprehensive health care. So, it is unlikely he received treatment for any medical issues. Or even had tests to identify problems.

I agree.
A 90% blockage, is a walking time bomb...MOO.

Basically he had 10% heart function.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Has a witness list been released for this trial? I am curious on who the defense has coming. ( Besides Mr Hall )

@shotgun09

Both the state and defense potential witness lists are in the media/documents/ and timeline thread... MN - George Floyd, 46, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 **Media & Timeline - NO DISCUSSION

brb to get a link for you

ETA:

Thanks to @sds71 for posting this for all to retrieve at at times like now *thank you sds71!* on MT

Defense list
https://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgov/media/High-Profile-Cases/27-CR-20-12646/WitnessList02082021.pdf

State’s list
https://www.mncourts.gov/mncourtsgo...s/27-CR-20-12646/StateWitnessList02082021.pdf