George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #11 Tues. July 9

[sacrablue]

It's obvious that people in that community would not put themselves in any kind of danger to help their neighbor. Sad commentary.

Also, I don't know how I feel about guns. I lived 5 years with a hunter, didn't like that aspect of him, and yet I have lived in a foreign city and attended a private school were an armed guard stood at the front gate everyday, and the local Denny's had a policeman armed with a machine gun close to the entrance....and did not give it much thought.

When this happens again do you think anyone is going to help? Not a chance. This confusing at best stand your ground law has taken has back to the stone ages. IMO

 

[Mollyandme]

Trayvon's arms were not spread.Witness saw him on top.IMO

they were found under his body clutching his chest. imo, and this is based on nursing and how people react to injury, you naturally grab the part of your body that was just injured. TM was still alive and able to move somewhat based on testimony from Dr. Bao so it is not unreasonable to believe that he moved his arms back under him to clutch his chest/heart. IMO, this would be a normal reflex to a GSW that doesn't kill you instantly. It is also absolutely heartbreaking no matter what side of the fence people commenting on this case fall on

 

[claudicici]

Yes. Because she says that when she called him back it was a short time later that he said he sees him. Then the fight and then the shot. It all happens in one spot. RIght where GZ said he was waiting for police.

On the call she said that he said at first he does not see him and then says he is there.. HE was already back home on the last call. GZ is right where he told police he was... He is right on the path that leads to his car... TM had to travel to him. There is no other way to get around that..

OMO

no,he was not where he told police he would be.Trayvon got close to his house,turned around and there was George again at the T ....that's when he got the courage to ask <modsnip> why he was following him IMO

 

[TXN4LIFE]

Dr. Di Maio is now on the stand. He is a expert pathologist normally used by defense attys. There is one case that his own testimony was used against him by the prosecution. The prosecutor read Dr. Di Maio's own book and used his own science against him to get a conviction.

 

[?noanswer]

Right? What if people had all come out and yelled hey!!! I wonder if TM would still be alive ?

Like that famous case in NY where a woman was murdered and all of her neighbors saw it and did nothing....

It is a sad sad thing that we don't get involved more when people need help.

OMO

One guy tried, but his girlfriend ordered him to get back in or words to that effect!!!!

I would not have gone out either if I heard a gunshot and could not see what else was happening.

JMO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

BTW, I believe that GZ did indeed find him at Dad's GF's house--in the back yard. If one sees the evidence and has an opinion contrary to another's opinion, it doesn't mean either party is emotional at all. IMO it only means they have thought about it and reached a different conclusion. As for me, I only care to see justice done--nothing emotional about it. I have nothing invested in this either way. I have looked at what little evidence there is thoughtfully and impartially. I believe GZ told a story to make himself look innocent and was not truthful because he needed the story for that very reason--to justify his actions. "In the dark, all cats are gray." The witnesses are likely telling what they believe to be the truth. However, eyewitness testimony is, IMO, notoriously unreliable. So, when I look at the physical evidence and compare it to GZ's version, i.e. superficial injuries, lack of DNA on TN, etc. etc. etc. I find GZ's version lacking in believability. It's as simple as that for me. I think manslaughter would be an appropriate finding.
Not emotionally, only thoughtfully and carefully. IMO

That is not what the states evidence shows. ON the call to RJ after he hangs up after saying he is at his dad's house, She calls him back and he says Gz is gone.. Then he says.. I see him.. Then the fight starts immediately and she says it sounds like grass and then with in minutes TM is dead.

Once he sees GZ again, THEY DON'T LEAVE that spot. So using the facts she gave us, The map and the evidence. The fight starts and ends in ONE SPOT.

OMO

 

[TexMex]

jmo But you might be surprised about how many people around you are ccw.

Absolutely. I live in Texas and own lots of guns.

It's my practice and I instruct our children to act as if everyone is armed
In other words, don't walk into someones home without permission
Don't look in or approach someone's car.
Do not engage in road rage type behavior where things could escalate into some dude pulling out his gun
Don't lose their temper and curse out or punch random people. You never know who is carrying a firearm-legally or not
JMO

 

[cityslick]

A few questions:
Why didn't the prosecution,
Show GZ's phone records...re: did someone call him or he call someone else right before he left?

Did anyone witness or confirm GZ's route
or for that matter, did anyone other than GZ see TM's path

Without all of this corroboration, how can anyone rely on GZ's opinion re: the very beginning of the following of TM. Thus, IMo, how can any recreation show anything but GZ's version from 7:00 PM to 7:17 PM on 2/26/2012.

It is on the state to prove GZ's version of events false. Maybe they didn't show all that because it doesn't conflict in any way with GZ's version of events.

Innocent till proven guilty.

 

[claudicici]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHyIpO43NRg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHyIpO43NRg[/ame]

his makes so much sense to me IMO

 

[georgiagirl]

First of all I see no reason why some people are walking around armed. This case is proof that these permits are handed out like bird seed. The education requirements are pathetic at best.
I have many friends that carry. If they have one thing in common it is they are all worried their rights are being removed. So what do they do?
Go out and buy more weapons and ammunition. IMO

Not to start a gun debate BUT in response to your BBM comment I will just say that there have been many crimes of violence against innocent people that have been stopped or thwarted by an armed citizen who just happened to be there. And personally if I am out somewhere shopping etc and a crazed person comes in threatening violence or trying to shoot up the place I HOPE there will be an anrmed CCW person there to take that person down for everyone's safety! IMO :twocents:

 

[sacrablue]

Will I intervene and try to help someone in trouble this day and age? Not a chance.
You are on your own. There is no logical reason to help your fellow man with this thinking I am seeing connected with this case. IMO

 

[missmazzy]

Dr. Di Maio is now on the stand. He is a expert pathologist normally used by defense attys. There is one case that his own testimony was used against him by the prosecution. The prosecutor read Dr. Di Maio's own book and used his own science against him to get a conviction.

Yes, our very own katiecoollady. I wonder if the prosecution can bring up things from past cases that he was wrong on....

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

no,he was not where he told police he would be.Trayvon got close to his house,turned around and there was George again at the T ....that's when he got the courage to ask the creep why he was following him IMO

Yes he was. He was close on the lateral sidewalk walking through the section. AS on the video. The video he does before he knows about witnesses, He at this point believes it is ALL ON VIDEO.. As per detective. So he is doing exactly what he did that night... When he gets back to the T there is TM and he confronts GZ.

TM was at his house in the back. HE told RJ that. She says after he hung up and she calls him back that TM says he does not see him.. LIKE HE IS LOOKING FOR HIM>>> then she says he says he sees him and then confronts GZ and then the fight starts. There is no running away.. She said the fight starts as soon as TM confronts GZ..

OMO but it all pieces together with the map and the evidence as per state.

 

[PaperDoll]

It was after and to spread his arms..

TM was face down. There is no way he could have been shot in the chest in that position. All that GZ accounts to fits with witness testimony.

And I can not forget that he did not change his testimony even after being told it was videotaped. He was relieved according to the Det. That it was all on tape..

That speaks volumes to me...

OMO

Evidence shows TM face down, arm/hands under, not spread out like GZ said.

 

[Sonya610]

Aren't these recordings admissible in court?

IMO the defense surely would have wanted all of that introduced BUT none of it is being allowed because it conflicts with the "innocent good student" portrayal.

Not allowing TM's twitter, youtube, facebook etc....activities was a decision by the judge if I recall correctly.

IMO.

 

[sorrell skye]

Right? What if people had all come out and yelled hey!!! I wonder if TM would still be alive ?

Like that famous case in NY where a woman was murdered and all of her neighbors saw it and did nothing....

It is a sad sad thing that we don't get involved more when people need help.

OMO

Kitty Genovese. We (fellow students & myself) studied this in psychology courses. The bystander effect attempts to explain that tragedy.

IMO, I think the residents in this case (Retreat at Twin Lakes) didn't come out to intervene due to fear, rather than the bystander effect, since several of the residents called 911.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Evidence shows TM face down, arm/hands under, not spread out like GZ said.

His arms were not under him.. His hands were. Now that we know he was alive for a period of time longer than first thought, He could have reflexively pulled them in again.. That works for me as we all know that his brain was still working for up to 10 mins as per state ME.

OMO

 

[TexMex]

When this happens again do you think anyone is going to help? Not a chance. This confusing at best stand your ground law has taken has back to the stone ages. IMO

IMO you can never rely on anyone else to become involved and help. It's why self defense is an affirmative defense in court

 

[Sweet Fox]

Just ask yourself, would you live in Twin Lakes and feel safe for any invited guests and yourself with GZ walking around with a hidden gun? IMO
Is this the life you work your entire life to enjoy?

I would feel absolutely safe with GZ but just the opposite with a TM walking around. JMO

 

[missmazzy]

Have I seen this guy on one of the evening talk shows or am I hallucinating?