George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #11 Tues. July 9

[gracielee]

Right? What if people had all come out and yelled hey!!! I wonder if TM would still be alive ?

Like that famous case in NY where a woman was murdered and all of her neighbors saw it and did nothing....

It is a sad sad thing that we don't get involved more when people need help.

OMO

Catherine Susan "Kitty" Genovese (July 7, 1935[1] – March 13, 1964) was a New York City woman who was stabbed to death near her home in the Kew Gardens neighborhood of the borough of Queens in New York City, on March 13, 1964.[3]

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese"]Murder of Kitty Genovese - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

 

[popsicle]

Right? What if people had all come out and yelled hey!!! I wonder if TM would still be alive ?

Like that famous case in NY where a woman was murdered and all of her neighbors saw it and did nothing....

It is a sad sad thing that we don't get involved more when people need help.

OMO

When I first heard of this case and others, I always remember that case in NY and that poor woman where all her neighbors ignored it and did nothing. jmo

 

[costalpilot]

BTW, I believe that GZ did indeed find him at Dad's GF's house--in the back yard. If one sees the evidence and has an opinion contrary to another's opinion, it doesn't mean either party is emotional at all. IMO it only means they have thought about it and reached a different conclusion. As for me, I only care to see justice done--nothing emotional about it. I have nothing invested in this either way. I have looked at what little evidence there is thoughtfully and impartially. I believe GZ told a story to make himself look innocent and was not truthful because he needed the story for that very reason--to justify his actions. "In the dark, all cats are gray." The witnesses are likely telling what they believe to be the truth. However, eyewitness testimony is, IMO, notoriously unreliable. So, when I look at the physical evidence and compare it to GZ's version, i.e. superficial injuries, lack of DNA on TM, etc. etc. etc. I find GZ's version lacking in believability. It's as simple as that for me. I think manslaughter would be an appropriate finding.
Not emotionally, only thoughtfully and carefully. IMO

you lost me at "superficial injuries". an impartial observer would not classify those injuries as "superficial". the state did so for a reason. the medical expert today will eviscerate that hogwash momentarily.

imo.

basing an opinion on evidence is only valid when the evidence is evaluated impartially and without prejudice. a broken nose and skull lacerations are "superficial" only in the make believe world of the states case, nowhere else.

imo.

 

[PaperDoll]

His arms were not under him.. His hands were. Now that we know he was alive for a period of time longer than first thought, He could have reflexively pulled them in again.. That works for me as we all know that his brain was still working for up to 10 mins as per state ME.

OMO

GZ said he spread his hands out, hands were under, not out. TM was dying, I do not for one minute believe he pulled his hands and arms under him. I believe he was found just as he fell, that makes sense to me. Could have been alive for 10 minutes, however I do not believe he was. In fact didn't the police arrive just seconds after the neighbor took the picture? The police tried to revive TM but he was already gone?

 

[William N]

If I may, I would like to offer my opinion about the scream. It was a high-pitched reedy voice, like GZ's.

When he testified, Tracy Martin sounded like the singer Barry White. Jaharvis, TM's brother, displayed a deep baritone on the stand.

We've heard George Zimmerman's voice over and over. It sounds like the source of the scream IMO. There was even a Latin inflection IMO.

 

[ShadyLady]

Machine gun at Denny's? Where did you live, Beiruit?

LOL...Mexico City. Denny's in Polanco and Zone Rosa. And where some people even have body guards with them at all times, especially outside their homes.

I do believe people should have the right to protect themselves AND their properties. imo.

 

[gracielee]

When this happens again do you think anyone is going to help? Not a chance. This confusing at best stand your ground law has taken has back to the stone ages. IMO

I think it depends upon where you live and who your neighbors are. How close you are with them. My neighbors all tend to respond if there is an emergency they become aware of. I recall not too long ago, some sort of disturbance during the night, a neighbors dogs alerting, and being told the man next door came running outside with his shotgun. Again, this is my experience with my neighbors, MOO.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

GZ said he spread his hands out, hands were under, not out. TM was dying, I do not for one minute believe he pulled his hands and arms under him. I believe he was found just as he fell, that makes sense to me. Could have been alive for 10 minutes, however I do not believe he was. In fact didn't the police arrive just seconds after the neighbor took the picture? The police tried to revive TM but he was already gone?

GZ pulled his arms out. His hands were only slightly under TM when the police took pictures.
While you may not believe it there is no proof that is not what happened and scientifically it is possible. If the brain is still active it is possible for flinching and posturing to occur. People's bodies can move involuntarily as long as the brain is alive. I have seen it... personally and in real life.

OMO

 

[NancyGracesBangs]

I believe the mods/admin frowned on using the word "murder" in here. Again, we all want this thread to stay open so let's follow the instructions.

 

[cityslick]

A tox report was done on TM but not on GZ, the man that has just committed murder. What's wrong with this picture?

Only reason it was done on TM was because it's SOP for an autopsy. It wasn't done on GZ because LE has no reason to believe he was under the influence of anything. The state's own witness testimony bear this out. They asked a number of officers how his demeanor was (IMO to show that he had malice) but the flip side to that is the reverse effect of showing he wasn't under the influence of anything.

IMO JMO

 

[Lovelymountains]

That is not what the states evidence shows. ON the call to RJ after he hangs up after saying he is at his dad's house, She calls him back and he says Gz is gone.. Then he says.. I see him.. Then the fight starts immediately and she says it sounds like grass and then with in minutes TM is dead.

Once he sees GZ again, THEY DON'T LEAVE that spot. So using the facts she gave us, The map and the evidence. The fight starts and ends in ONE SPOT.

OMO

I have heard no evidence of "THEY DON'T LEAVE that spot." Perhaps you have, but I haven't. The caps seem to indicate an emotional response, IMO.

 

[Etiana]

Right? What if people had all come out and yelled hey!!! I wonder if TM would still be alive ?

Like that famous case in NY where a woman was murdered and all of her neighbors saw it and did nothing....

It is a sad sad thing that we don't get involved more when people need help.

OMO

This is another reason IMO why this case makes me sad. It's sad that no one responded immediately when they heard the cries for help. It's a sad commentary on our culture that people are afraid of what might happen to them if they try and help. I think living in a "sue happy" society is partly to blame. Doing the right thing isn't as easy as it use to be. I guess it also depends on where you live. I live in a community where everyone knows their neighbors and with very low crime so when anything happens, there is a rush of people to help. JMO

 

[Mahouston69]

Yes. Because she says that when she called him back it was a short time later that he said he sees him. Then the fight and then the shot. It all happens in one spot. RIght where GZ said he was waiting for police.

On the call she said that he said at first he does not see him and then says he is there.. HE was already back home on the last call. GZ is right where he told police he was... He is right on the path that leads to his car... TM had to travel to him. There is no other way to get around that..

OMO

Please provide a link that states he was AT the place he was staying and not NEAR where he was staying when a "heavy breathing man" can be heard by the witness as TM asks him "why are you following me? "

It all happened in one place, I agree...part way down the dog path from the cut through. GZ and TM did not fight there at the cut through or T. Neither was GZ waiting by his truck or near it.

http://viewfromll2.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/zimmermanmap.png

IMO

 

[Just K]

Re: the trajectory and distance of the shot. IMO, the same result (with the fabric being 2-4 inches away from TM's skin) this could have occurred if GZ was pulling out the fabric with his left hand as TM tried to get up/off/away from the gun in GZ's right hand...lying, standing, or with TM straddled over GZ. All IMO, of course...just seems very logical explanation for the space between the shirts and the skin.

 

[Sweet Fox]

Aren't these recordings admissible in court?

IMO) They should have been allowed but the Judge blocked everything on TM twitter, Facebook, etc.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I have heard no evidence of "THEY DON'T LEAVE that spot." Perhaps you have, but I haven't. The caps seem to indicate an emotional response, IMO.

Well if you believe the states case, She said that he confronts and the fight ensues. All the witnesses that call are up at that end of the T and call police.. No one calls from down near his DAD's house to report a fight.

I think there is plenty of evidence that supports exactly what RJ said happened.. TM confronts, TM attacks and then TM is shot all in one spot.

OMO

 

[Sonya610]

Di Maio is truly a pleasure to listen to! I would buy his books but it seems the best are only available in HB at $100+. Probably not for laymen anyway.

IMO

 

[Karmady]

he's objecting to his CV???

 

[PaperDoll]

GZ pulled his arms out. His hands were only slightly under TM when the police took pictures.
While you may not believe it there is no proof that is not what happened and scientifically it is possible. If the brain is still active it is possible for flinching and posturing to occur. People's bodies can move involuntarily as long as the brain is alive. I have seen it... personally and in real life.

OMO

But their is no evidence, or witness, say they saw TM move his arms/hands. Hands were under when found, GZ said he spread them out to see if he had something in his hands, so, either the evidence is lying or GZ is.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

It's obvious that people in that community would not put themselves in any kind of danger to help their neighbor. Sad commentary.

Also, I don't know how I feel about guns. I lived 5 years with a hunter, didn't like that aspect of him, and yet I have lived in a foreign city and attended a private school were an armed guard stood at the front gate everyday, and the local Denny's had a policeman armed with a machine gun close to the entrance....and did not give it much thought.

Yeah the people in the community failed GZ, who was trying to protect them. It is sad and I am disgusted with them imo.