George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #11 Tues. July 9

[cityslick]

when George supposedly got on top of the boy he just shot to death to "separate his arms" IMO that never happened.So why was George on top of Trayvon? Was it after or during the shot?

His story was that if was after the shot. The witness said she saw the red after the shot. There wasn't a shot after she was able to identify the color of the jacket.

IMO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

He could have turned him around instead of spreading his arms OMO

Not according to witnesses. Nor his accounting. It all fits with the evidence..

OMO

 

[cityslick]

It was after and to spread his arms..

TM was face down. There is no way he could have been shot in the chest in that position. All that GZ accounts to fits with witness testimony.

And I can not forget that he did not change his testimony even after being told it was videotaped. He was relieved according to the Det. That it was all on tape..

That speaks volumes to me...

OMO

Yes, this is key. The first time he was told there may/was video of the entire fight, you know what his response was?

Thank God!

 

[claudicici]

I would not live in a community that had 5 break-ins in 3 months. I would do anything I could to move asap.

I don't think that's a lot of break ins.sadly we have far more than that.

 

[Mollyandme]

Just ask yourself, would you live in Twin Lakes and feel safe for any invited guests and yourself with GZ walking around with a hidden gun? IMO
Is this the life you work your entire life to enjoy?

yes i would feel safe. he had a permit to carry that gun. and IMO, none of my invited guests would go up and punch a law abiding citizen in the face, again just IMO based on the evidence so far presented. i am just going to agree to disagree with your opinion on this case so please just bypass my posts. thanks!

 

[Perthgirl62]

No. The phone goes dead when he tells RJ he is at his house. Then when she calls him back, HE says HE sees gz and then he confronts GZ and then after she heard wrestling she said the phone goes dead.

AS per her testimony..

OMO

Yes, but how do we know where he was located when she called back? The last location that TM gave was near his dads girlfriends, how long after did she call back? How do we know when she called back that GZ hasn't found TM and he has then asked GZ what his problem is and taken off when he sees the gun?
BTW I don't think RJs evidence is 100% credible, but I also think there are a lot of holes in GZs story. IMO

 

[claudicici]

Not according to witnesses. Nor his accounting. It all fits with the evidence..

OMO

Trayvon's arms were not spread.Witness saw him on top.IMO

 

[Just K]

A few questions:
Why didn't the prosecution,
Show GZ's phone records...re: did someone call him or he call someone else right before he left?

Did anyone witness or confirm GZ's route
or for that matter, did anyone other than GZ see TM's path

Without all of this corroboration, how can anyone rely on GZ's opinion re: the very beginning of the following of TM. Thus, IMo, how can any recreation show anything but GZ's version from 7:00 PM to 7:17 PM on 2/26/2012.

 

[gracielee]

I live in such an area and I enjoy it VERY MUCH!

I know many in my rural community DO carry and virtually ALL of them have loaded weapons in their car. I feel very safe because I know many of them would come to my assistance if they saw me (or any citizen) getting beaten down (unlike in poor GZ's case where no one helped they just grabbed their cell phones).

I used to have a CCW but let it expire (going to renew it soon) simply because I feel so safe in an environment where there are real men (and women) capable of dealing with real problems and the community can be counted on to step up and HELP others in need.
IMO.

That is exactly what the deputy told me about carrying in a car. He said 'as long as your gun isn't concealed, you are fine. If you are carrying a gun with you in the car, keep it out, not concealed in a glove compartment, etc. And if you should ever get stopped by LE, say for a traffic infraction, stick both your hands out the window and inform the LE that you have a gun in the car. Another thing I've thought through as to the using of a gun, is the protection of myself or others during an animal attack, either dog or a rabid animal. We have numerous cases of animal rabies in N.C. every year, and we live in a rural area, where I have stated, LE response can be 15 to 20 minutes or more. I think people in rural areas keep their weapons close at hand and ready to fire *because* one can't count on quick response from outside sources. I'd hazard a guess that most if not all of my neighbors possess a firearm for protection and emergencies. MOO

 

[Sonya610]

West just said "Apparently we don't have a PA system that amplifies my voice".

Uhhh....do they have one for the prosecution and NOT the defense? Is that what he is implying?

 

[cityslick]

Yes, but how do we know where he was located when she called back? The last location that TM gave was near his dads girlfriends, how long after did she call back? How do we know when she called back that GZ hasn't found TM and he has then asked GZ what his problem is and taken off when he sees the gun?
BTW I don't think RJs evidence is 100% credible, but I also think there are a lot of holes in GZs story. IMO

I can't exactly remember her testimony so this is IMO, but I believe she was on the phone with him, and he said something to her before the confrontation. At that point (according to her) the fight started (remember, she said she 'heard' wet grass).

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Yes, but how do we know where he was located when she called back? The last location that TM gave was near his dads girlfriends, how long after did she call back? How do we know when she called back that GZ hasn't found TM and he has then asked GZ what his problem is and taken off when he sees the gun?
BTW I don't think RJs evidence is 100% credible, but I also think there are a lot of holes in GZs story. IMO

Yes. Because she says that when she called him back it was a short time later that he said he sees him. Then the fight and then the shot. It all happens in one spot. RIght where GZ said he was waiting for police.

On the call she said that he said at first he does not see him and then says he is there.. HE was already back home on the last call. GZ is right where he told police he was... He is right on the path that leads to his car... TM had to travel to him. There is no other way to get around that..

OMO

 

[popsicle]

We don't, all was have is what the evidence/testimony bears out, which is what the jury should base their decisions on, not theory or speculation. And the evidence/testimony does not bear out that TM knew at any time that GZ had a gun.

IMO

I also want to add, if I may, the witness yesterday said that GZ's holster was an inside the waistband type. He said that even without a jacket on that the gun wouldn't be seen. The only reason TM saw the gun was because they were struggling on the ground and GZ said when his jacket/shirt lifted up that is when TM noticed he had a gun. jmo

 

[ShadyLady]

I live in such an area and I enjoy it VERY MUCH!

I know many in my rural community DO carry and virtually ALL of them have loaded weapons in their car. I feel very safe because I know many of them would come to my assistance if they saw me (or any citizen) getting beaten down (unlike in poor GZ's case where no one helped they just grabbed their cell phones).

I used to have a CCW but let it expire (going to renew it soon) simply because I feel so safe in an environment where there are real men (and women) capable of dealing with real problems and the community can be counted on to step up and HELP others in need.
IMO.

It's obvious that people in that community would not put themselves in any kind of danger to help their neighbor. Sad commentary.

Also, I don't know how I feel about guns. I lived 5 years with a hunter, didn't like that aspect of him, and yet I have lived in a foreign city and attended a private school were an armed guard stood at the front gate everyday, and the local Denny's had a policeman armed with a machine gun close to the entrance....and did not give it much thought.

 

[Lovelymountains]

No. I take the evidence all the evidence and apply it to fact and reason not emotion. I don't let emotion in..

I am taking the states witnesses, The information they gave and applying it to map of complex and time involved and testimony of their witnesses.

It fits no other way. If TM was home, during call with Rj and then he hangs up and she calls him back and he says he sees him again. and the fight occurs where GZ told Police he is and near where he was parked, It means that GZ did not in fact continue looking for TM or he would have found him at his dad's gfs house. TM HAD to have gone back to where he last saw GZ looking for him.

It is the only thing that fits as per STATES case. Not even defense case yet..

OMO

BTW, I believe that GZ did indeed find him at Dad's GF's house--in the back yard. If one sees the evidence and has an opinion contrary to another's opinion, it doesn't mean either party is emotional at all. IMO it only means they have thought about it and reached a different conclusion. As for me, I only care to see justice done--nothing emotional about it. I have nothing invested in this either way. I have looked at what little evidence there is thoughtfully and impartially. I believe GZ told a story to make himself look innocent and was not truthful because he needed the story for that very reason--to justify his actions. "In the dark, all cats are gray." The witnesses are likely telling what they believe to be the truth. However, eyewitness testimony is, IMO, notoriously unreliable. So, when I look at the physical evidence and compare it to GZ's version, i.e. superficial injuries, lack of DNA on TM, etc. etc. etc. I find GZ's version lacking in believability. It's as simple as that for me. I think manslaughter would be an appropriate finding.
Not emotionally, only thoughtfully and carefully. IMO

 

[DeadCat]

I've listened to Trayvon on Youtube (singing, talking, rapping) with various ranges in his voice. IMHO) the screams on the 911 are definitely not his.

Aren't these recordings admissible in court?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

It's obvious that people in that community would not put themselves in any kind of danger to help their neighbor. Sad commentary.

Also, I don't know how I feel about guns. I lived 5 years with a hunter, didn't like that aspect of him, and yet I have lived in a foreign city and attended a private school were an armed guard stood at the front gate everyday, and the local Denny's had a policeman armed with a machine gun close to the entrance....and did not give it much thought.

Right? What if people had all come out and yelled hey!!! I wonder if TM would still be alive ?

Like that famous case in NY where a woman was murdered and all of her neighbors saw it and did nothing....

It is a sad sad thing that we don't get involved more when people need help.

OMO

 

[missmazzy]

It's obvious that people in that community would not put themselves in any kind of danger to help their neighbor. Sad commentary.

Also, I don't know how I feel about guns. I lived 5 years with a hunter, didn't like that aspect of him, and yet I have lived in a foreign city and attended a private school were an armed guard stood at the front gate everyday, and the local Denny's had a policeman armed with a machine gun close to the entrance....and did not give it much thought.

Machine gun at Denny's? Where did you live, Beiruit?

 

[sorrell skye]

West just said "Apparently we don't have a PA system that amplifies my voice".

Uhhh....do they have one for the prosecution and NOT the defense? Is that what he is implying?

IMO, Mr. West seems to have a propensity for making asinine comments. I still haven't gotten over his knock-knock joke in his opening statement.

But I DO think he did an excellent job @ cross-examining RJ, wherein he exercised the patience of Job, IMO.

 

[Marigold]

I like this expert. Imo, it's obvious he knows a lot, but he doesn't act like a know-it-all, moo.