George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #11 Tues. July 9

[Horace Finklestein]

Nice to see a non-belligerent medical witness who's not trying to obfuscate his testimony imo.

 

[Lovelymountains]

GZ said he spread his hands out, hands were under, not out. TM was dying, I do not for one minute believe he pulled his hands and arms under him. I believe he was found just as he fell, that makes sense to me. Could have been alive for 10 minutes, however I do not believe he was. In fact didn't the police arrive just seconds after the neighbor took the picture? The police tried to revive TM but he was already gone?

Although it might be possible that TM was alive for a few minutes, IMO he would have been unconscious and unable to speak, i.e. "You got me!" If he moved, IMO it would have been only reflex and not deliberate motion. I, too, believe that he was found just as he fell.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Please provide a link that states he was AT the place he was staying and not NEAR where he was staying when a "heavy breathing man" can be heard by the witness as TM asks him "why are you following me? "

It all happened in one place, I agree...part way down the dog path from the cut through. GZ and TM did not fight there at the cut through or T. Neither was GZ waiting by his truck or near it.

http://viewfromll2.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/zimmermanmap.png

IMO

IT is in her testimony..YOu tube has every day. I listened to it twice yesterday. HE said he was at the back of where he was staying.

GZ was breathing heavy because he was walking and talking. I don't see any conflict there either. THey did fight right there. No witnesses said they were any where else but right where that happened.. All JG said was that they were rolling around on and off the concrete.



http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-M...an-Trayvon-Martin-Gated-Communities-and-Fear/


Map

 

[PaperDoll]

GZ also said to the neighbor that came out after the shot, "help me, help me restrain this guy" or something to that effect, did the neighbor say GZ said that when he was testifying? I'm sorry, I've been listening to the trial but every now and then I get interrupted and miss some things. Can anyone answer this for me so I don't have to go back and look it up.. :scared: :blushing:

 

[missmazzy]

LOL...Mexico City. Denny's in Polanco and Zone Rosa. And where some people even have body guards with them at all times, especially outside their homes.

I do believe people should have the right to protect themselves AND their properties. imo.

I hear y! Funny OT story...my best friend works for the govt. During the first gulf war, she went to Saudi Arabia. While she was at the local McD's, a man tried to "purchase" her. She literally had to be rescued by our soldiers.

 

[cityslick]

Please provide a link that states he was AT the place he was staying and not NEAR where he was staying when a "heavy breathing man" can be heard by the witness as TM asks him "why are you following me? "

It all happened in one place, I agree...part way down the dog path from the cut through. GZ and TM did not fight there at the cut through or T. Neither was GZ waiting by his truck or near it.

http://viewfromll2.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/zimmermanmap.png

IMO

DON WEST: At that point, he decided to approach this man and say, "Why are you following me?"

RJ: Yes, sir.

DON WEST: And he could have just run home if he wasn’t there.

RJ: He was already by his house, he told me.

From this link - http://www.democracynow.org/2013/6/28/at_zimmerman_murder_trial_defense_tries

 

[Tricia]

PLEASE GO BACK AND LOOK AT YOUR POSTS ON THIS THREAD.

ADD, "IN MY OPINION" TO ANY POST BELONGING TO YOU THAT DOES NOT STATE AN ABSOLUTE FACT OR DOES NOT PROVIDE A LINK TO BACK UP WHAT YOU POSTED.

PRETTY PLEASE DO THIS TODAY OK?

Thank you,
Tricia

What She Said lease:lease:lease:

 

[Sonya610]

Although it might be possible that TM was alive for a few minutes, IMO he would have been unconscious and unable to speak, i.e. "You got me!" If he moved, IMO it would have been only reflex and not deliberate motion. I, too, believe that he was found just as he fell.

Everything I have read says it is quite possible for someone to move, shoot back, talk etc....for up to 30 seconds after a bullet destroys and stops their heart. 20-30 seconds is considered the maximum amount of time, even though it can take 4+ minutes before brain death occurs. I read that 20 years ago in books about handgun stopping power and it is not something that I googled for this case.

That fact is stressed in books regarding handgun stopping power etc.... It is important for the police and others using firearms to understand that. Only a shot which destroys the brain guarantees that the target will immediately stop and drop. I don't have a link so I will say IMO but it is fact.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

But their is no evidence, or witness, say they saw TM move his arms/hands. Hands were under when found, GZ said he spread them out to see if he had something in his hands, so, either the evidence is lying or GZ is.

And there is no evidence that it did not happen. No. The other possibility is that TM pulled them back in. There is more options than lying and the evidence does not lie..

OMO

 

[PaperDoll]

Although it might be possible that TM was alive for a few minutes, IMO he would have been unconscious and unable to speak, i.e. "You got me!" If he moved, IMO it would have been only reflex and not deliberate motion. I, too, believe that he was found just as he fell.

Thank you :blowkiss: I think he was alive for a minute or two, but that was it, IMO. I also wonder about the "you got me" as well.. Really? I don't know if I would even consider that if I were shot, I think the body goes in shock.

 

[ShadyLady]

Will I intervene and try to help someone in trouble this day and age? Not a chance.
You are on your own. There is no logical reason to help your fellow man with this thinking I am seeing connected with this case. IMO

I am sure george z will never again try to get involved in defending his community again. He made a poor judgement getting out of his car, and then was attacked. I have been shown no evidence that it did not go down as he has said. IMO.

 

[Etiana]

IMO, Mr. West seems to have a propensity for making asinine comments. I still haven't gotten over his knock-knock joke in his opening statement.

But I DO think he did an excellent job @ cross-examining RJ, wherein he exercised the patience of Job, IMO.

I've not been able to get past the knock-knock joke either. I thought it was awful and a terrible way to start the trial. I haven't been able to take him seriously since then. I do agree he managed to keep his cool with RJ. Although I do think his style aggravated her testimony. I prefer M'OM and wish he had been the one to cross-examine her. JMO

 

[cityslick]

Although it might be possible that TM was alive for a few minutes, IMO he would have been unconscious and unable to speak, i.e. "You got me!" If he moved, IMO it would have been only reflex and not deliberate motion. I, too, believe that he was found just as he fell.

Looks like that's coming up now from this witness.

 

[Snoods]

IIRC, many of the witnesses received death threats. I would move too.

Also wanted to add that when John Good was on the stand he stated that he had reporters knocking on his door every single day. IMO if they were knocking on his door they were knocking on other people's doors as well. Strangers at your door every day coupled with death threats would be unnerving IMO. At the time he said that I thought "No wonder he moved."

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I never liked MOM or West..

I went into this case to be proved that Zimmerman committed murder here but try as I may I don't see it. Not at all. The States witnesses all have more information that helps the defense rather than the state.

I am not looking at anything but facts in evidence and testimony..


OMO

 

[EquallyDivided]

This is all just my opinion -

I did not follow this case and had an open mind from day one. It became harder and harder after hearing the state's case, and in listening to the witnesses testimony.

I believe that this was a tragic event, all the way around. I believe GZ was over zealous, and that TM was confrontational at the goading of RJ, which is why she didn't attend any function of TM after his death, and why she didn't go forward to the police. I believe that RJ felt culpable in his death and reacted like anyone who gave bad advice that resulted in a death.

I believe that anyone is within their right to walk to a 7-11 in the rain, and to carry a loaded firearm with a round in the chamber. I do it ALL the time. I have a long trigger pull firearm as well, and until you've become proficient and familiar with firearms, I'm sure that information sounds scary to the un-informed. I've dealt with firearms on a daily basis for the past 15 years, and I believe myself to be extremely proficient with the use and safety of firearms.

Understand that MY state doesn't require a training course in order to carry. Just a driver's license and a request to so so will get you a permit to carry. Comments stating that all people are trained before allowed to have a permit to carry, is completely incorrect. I live in Georgia. There is no training requirement. Texas does have a training requirement. However if I go to Texas, I can carry with my Georgia permit because both states have a reciprocal agreement for permit holders. Just because I am carrying in a state that has a training requirement does not necessarily mean I had to be trained before carrying in that state.

I can no longer say that I have an open mind. The more I hear, the more I am in disbelief that this case ever went to trial. I feel for the TM family because losing a son has to be the most horrible experience in the world. I think this ended up being a perfect storm because of two people who may not have made the best choices on that fateful night. There is no doubt in my mind that GM sustained injuries that would have made him fearful for his life. Even if there was ZERO blood on his body, and someone punched and beat his head against concrete, he would still be justified in my mind. The fact that he had ANY amount of blood is evidence of bodily injury. The injuries did not get there AFTER the shot.

This is all just MOO.

 

[Mollyandme]

This is another reason IMO why this case makes me sad. It's sad that no one responded immediately when they heard the cries for help. It's a sad commentary on our culture that people are afraid of what might happen to them if they try and help. I think living in a "sue happy" society is partly to blame. Doing the right thing isn't as easy as it use to be. I guess it also depends on where you live. I live in a community where everyone knows their neighbors and with very low crime so when anything happens, there is a rush of people to help. JMO

thank you so much for posting this. i couldn't agree more. I know if this happened in my neighborhood, everyone would be out there in a second trying to help/stop the fight. it's a very sad commentary on how far our society has declined when not everyone is willing to help their neighbor.

 

[PaperDoll]

And there is no evidence that it did not happen. No. The other possibility is that TM pulled them back in. There is more options than lying and the evidence does not lie..

OMO

If we are going by evidence here, then please show me where someone or a photo that shows otherwise. I'm going by the photo that is in evidence, the photo that shows TM hands under, not out.

 

[claudicici]

DON WEST: At that point, he decided to approach this man and say, "Why are you following me?"

RJ: Yes, sir.

DON WEST: And he could have just run home if he wasn’t there.

RJ: He was already by his house, he told me.

From this link - http://www.democracynow.org/2013/6/28/at_zimmerman_murder_trial_defense_tries

by his house means close not there IMO,the fight was by his house...

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

If we are going by evidence here, then please show me where someone or a photo that shows otherwise. I'm going by the photo that is in evidence, the photo that shows TM hands under, not out.

The photo shows his hands are under but the testimony is that he was alive for up to 10 mins. His brain was still functioning for a time after the shot and he could have pulled them back in himself. His death was not instantaneous. IT took time. The possibility is there based on evidence put forth in testimony.


OMO