George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #11 Tues. July 9

[Lovelymountains]

This is another reason IMO why this case makes me sad. It's sad that no one responded immediately when they heard the cries for help. It's a sad commentary on our culture that people are afraid of what might happen to them if they try and help. I think living in a "sue happy" society is partly to blame. Doing the right thing isn't as easy as it use to be. I guess it also depends on where you live. I live in a community where everyone knows their neighbors and with very low crime so when anything happens, there is a rush of people to help. JMO

Now that I know so many people are walking around carrying loaded guns on their persons, I would never physically try to intervene in a fight. Actually, I never would have. I might have yelled or tried to call attention to the altercation. Now, however, my participation would only be to call 911.
I wonder what those who bemoan the fact that most people will not physically intervene recommend doing under the circumstances as presented in this case. IMO it would be foolhardy, indeed, to have tried to intervene not knowing if one or both of the participants were armed and not knowing the cause of the altercation. On which side would one try to intervene?

 

[Mollyandme]

But their is no evidence, or witness, say they saw TM move his arms/hands. Hands were under when found, GZ said he spread them out to see if he had something in his hands, so, either the evidence is lying or GZ is.

i understand what you are saying but i think it will be up to the jury to decide if the testimony given by Dr. Bao and maybe Dr. DiMaio (if he talks about this) supports the fact that he could have moved his hands in.

 

[DIBSY]

BTW, I believe that GZ did indeed find him at Dad's GF's house--in the back yard. If one sees the evidence and has an opinion contrary to another's opinion, it doesn't mean either party is emotional at all. IMO it only means they have thought about it and reached a different conclusion. As for me, I only care to see justice done--nothing emotional about it. I have nothing invested in this either way. I have looked at what little evidence there is thoughtfully and impartially. I believe GZ told a story to make himself look innocent and was not truthful because he needed the story for that very reason--to justify his actions. "In the dark, all cats are gray." The witnesses are likely telling what they believe to be the truth. However, eyewitness testimony is, IMO, notoriously unreliable. So, when I look at the physical evidence and compare it to GZ's version, i.e. superficial injuries, lack of DNA on TM, etc. etc. etc. I find GZ's version lacking in believability. It's as simple as that for me. I think manslaughter would be an appropriate finding.
Not emotionally, only thoughtfully and carefully. IMO

Waaaay :tmi: from the current witness, if the court wants to read his entire autobiography in the Town Hall, aloud , during the summer hols, there MAY be enough time, then. IMO

Agreed, LovelyMountains. :star:

The definitive Bottom Line in this case is:
None of the Shooters minor wounds are LifeThreatening NOR can they have been construed as such at the time....as Verified by the 1 st ME and Chris Serino. GZ's life was not in danger.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

by his house means close not there IMO,the fight was by his house...

Not according to the evidence. The fight occurs up closer to where the T was. Not down at his residence which was 70 yards from there..

OMO

 

[Chelly]

Also wanted to add that when John Good was on the stand he stated that he had reporters knocking on his door every single day. IMO if they were knocking on his door they were knocking on other people's doors as well. Strangers at your door every day coupled with death threats would be unnerving IMO. At the time he said that I thought "No wonder he moved."

Where did GZ escape to for several weeks after the shooting when he was in fear of his life and no one could find him? Anyone know?

Oh, and good morning WS Friends.
HUGS!

 

[missmazzy]

OMG! He does ballistics tests on LIVE ANIMALS! I'm sick.

 

[Lovelymountains]

If we are going by evidence here, then please show me where someone or a photo that shows otherwise. I'm going by the photo that is in evidence, the photo that shows TM hands under, not out.

Yes, IMO a photo in evidence is the best kind of evidence.

 

[PaperDoll]

The photo shows his hands are under but the testimony is that he was alive for up to 10 mins. His brain was still functioning for a time after the shot and he could have pulled them back in himself. His death was not instantaneous. IT took time. The possibility is there based on evidence put forth in testimony.


OMO

When did the police arrive? From my understanding they arrived within a couple of minutes, if that. They determined TM was gone when they tried to revive him, so to me that blows the 10 minutes out the window. No one saw TM arms and hands move, not even the neighbor who took the picture, who was on the scene 1st after the shot and claims he was there within, what 20 seconds after the shot?

 

[sorrell skye]

I think the analogy of the spray of water from a garden hose is a good way to explain the pattern of gunshot residue. It helps me to understand why there is less stippling the further away the gunshot occurs.

 

[Karmady]

The photo shows his hands are under but the testimony is that he was alive for up to 10 mins. His brain was still functioning for a time after the shot and he could have pulled them back in himself. His death was not instantaneous. IT took time. The possibility is there based on evidence put forth in testimony.


OMO

do you happen to have a link to the pics that were shown in court? I didn't think the arm positioning was all that clear, but I just caught the tail end of it.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Again. The law does not state there has to be life threatening injuries to prove self defense. That is the law. It is posted earlier in the thread.

All he had to do was believe his life was in danger. HE did not have have to have life threatening injuries to use self defense.

The law is what matters. Not our opinion of the law..

OMO

 

[sacrablue]

The photo shows his hands are under but the testimony is that he was alive for up to 10 mins. His brain was still functioning for a time after the shot and he could have pulled them back in himself. His death was not instantaneous. IT took time. The possibility is there based on evidence put forth in testimony.


OMO

More twisting to fit. Your brain might be alive but without conscious. That is the point IMO.

 

[DIBSY]

OMG! He does ballistics tests on LIVE ANIMALS! I'm sick.

Likewise. Very sad and not neccessary with today's technology. IMO

 

[callyn]

OMG! He does ballistics tests on LIVE ANIMALS! I'm sick.

Wish he hadn't added that little tidbit

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Yes, IMO a photo in evidence is the best kind of evidence.

Then GZ's bloodied face would be important too..

OMO

 

[cityslick]

by his house means close not there IMO,the fight was by his house...

I'm not sure how it can't be determined he was in close proximity to his house when the answer was to the question 'why didn't he run to his house'.

 

[Perthgirl62]

His arms were not under him.. His hands were. Now that we know he was alive for a period of time longer than first thought, He could have reflexively pulled them in again.. That works for me as we all know that his brain was still working for up to 10 mins as per state ME.

OMO

Didn't the ME say based on the type of injury he would have been unable to move?

IMO

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

More twisting to fit. Your brain might be alive but without conscious. That is the point IMO.

No the point is that he was alive. How much action he had and for how long we don't exactly know so the possibility is there.

So far everything that GZ said is backed up by state witnesses.

OMO

 

[claudicici]

Not according to the evidence. The fight occurs up closer to where the T was. Not down at his residence which was 70 yards from there..

OMO

70 yards is by his house.IMO.when I say I'm 'by my house" I could be two blocks away,that's still "by my house"

 

[cityslick]

Now that I know so many people are walking around carrying loaded guns on their persons, I would never physically try to intervene in a fight. Actually, I never would have. I might have yelled or tried to call attention to the altercation. Now, however, my participation would only be to call 911.
I wonder what those who bemoan the fact that most people will not physically intervene recommend doing under the circumstances as presented in this case. IMO it would be foolhardy, indeed, to have tried to intervene not knowing if one or both of the participants were armed and not knowing the cause of the altercation. On which side would one try to intervene?

You didn't realize there are people with conceal and carry permits who actually carry? Maybe it's different in certain states but a lot of states have this and I'd think you be surprised how many there are.