George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #11 Tues. July 9

[Karmady]

I missed that part when I stepped out of the room.

If TM was possibly backing up (while the screams for help were still being heard in the 911 recording), then, IMO, it's possible that GZ may not have needed to shoot TM to defend himself.

While it's possible that this scenario may have occurred, unless there is evidence to support it, IMO, the reasonable doubt still goes to GZ (in my mind).

Exactly. The prosecution can prove all day that something MIGHT have happened in a certain way and still not prove their case. All the defense has to do is create any reasonable doubt that it might have happened some other way inconsistent with Murder 2 or consistent with self-defense. jmo

 

[gxm]

LOL.. No I would NEVER agree with that because the last I checked, I live in the United States of America and I have a right to walk in the rain...
Who said he was looking into windows?
Link please?

And that's exactly what GZ was doing, walking in the rain. Both TM and GZ had a right to be out walking that night. But once TM assaulted GZ, the law was broken.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

There is no way to me that TM standing and backing up and getting shot fits any testimony. Not even from the STATE witnesses. That did not happen...

 

[sacrablue]

HE did not have to wait in the truck. There is no legal reason he had to wait anywhere. He did nothing illegal in his actions that night.

HE called NEN. He knows they are coming.. TM ventures from the safety of his house back out to look for GZ as per RJ, the state witness.

They met when TM confronted GZ. Not before that.

GZ said he was not following TM, just going the same direction. IMO

 

[lisasalinger]

JMO. I knew BDLR was going to bring up Dr. Di Maio shooting a live animal for his testing.

Can't say I blame him... it will definitely pizz some people off so it makes sense that the Prosecution would use it. I know I definitely paused when I heard it this morning. However, I would still not let it cloud my judgement of the task that I am there for.

IMO

 

[William N]

You think Trayvon would be better off in 1950's Georgia? The "good old days" were not so good for many people...IMHO

IMO if you want to make that argument, were Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom safe in 21st Century Knoxville, Tennessee?

 

[sacrablue]

There is no way to me that TM standing and backing up and getting shot fits any testimony. Not even from the STATE witnesses. That did not happen...

Only 2 people know what happened. One is dead and the other is making up a story to save his butt. IMO

 

[deelytful1]

Wow. Really? Changing history much? Go online and read more about him. MOO...after doing some fact checking.

<modsnip>
TM was no better or worse than ALOT of kids in this country and given the CHANCE they will realize their idiocy and become productive members of society. IMO His mother was a well educated, employed productive member of society and his brother is a junior in college, preparing to become a productive member of society..

<modsnip>

All IMO

 

[DIBSY]

You think Trayvon would be better off in 1950's Georgia? The "good old days" were not so good for many people...IMHO

For sure, given the two races involved in this murder trial. IMO

The Pros is finally out doing itself!!! Sounds like GZ wouldn't be able to " yelp" or scream with blood from his nose running internally down his throat.IMO

Finally addressed my puzzlement, YAY !! Why would the blood from the back of GZ's head be running toward his face IF he was on his back..physically impossibe..gravity wouldn't allow it. IMO

 

[sorrell skye]

Dr. Di Maio: It's obvious that he was punched in the face.

http://www.wftv.com/s/zimmerman-livestream/

Of course. The photo taken of him immediately afterward illustrates that he was struck in the nose.

 

[ncgramma]

Even though I spend HOURS reading posts here, I rarely write anything. But today I am more than convinced that prosecution lawyers are reading posts here. I say that because every time something is posted here, they mention the issue soon in court.

I'm used to defense team "throwing it out there and seing what sticks". But this is the first time that I see prosecution do it. They don't have a theory, so they keep changing theirs to whatever they think will "stick".

I'm watching now about the straddling and reaching into the pants for a gun. Here are the results of my experiment conducted with my fiancée. We both weigh 175 lbs. I'm 5'7" he is 5'5". I have rather long legs (need to buy pants in tall sizes sometimes), my fiancé has short legs (pants 29" long need to be shortened by some 3-4 inches).

When he straddled me, I had a tough time reaching into my pants because his legs barely reached around my hips and there wasn't much space left. Whe I straddled him, he had NO problem reaching into this pant waistline becaus my legs were long and there was plenty of room between my legs and his hips.

So, I believe it's all about the length of the legs. Mr. Martin was 5'11" (as far as I remember). His legs were likely on the long side. I don't see where the problem is that Mr. Zimmerman couldn't reach for his gun. All my post is my personal opinion backed up by the little "experiment" we did.

Also, I'm left handed for writing but do just about anything else with my right hand because it's the stronger one. I never thought it was weird and I surely don't do it on purpose.

I hoped for the prosecution to present a clear case. But this just reminds me of FCA's defense team. My, opinion here, of course.

BBM I even had to remind myself that it wasn't the defense that was going first. It's been a very different trial to observe, for sure! IMO

 

[Truthy]

My only lingering doubt, at this point, is whether or not GZ truly believed that his only option was to fatally shoot TM. MOO

I'm guessing one he grabbed his gun, he remembered that he would be in much more trouble if he had left Trayvon alive to testify against him. Sad that it works that way. IMHO

 

[Mahouston69]

Confront? How do you know? Nothing points to this imo.

Getting out of his vehicle to follow Trayvon on foot around the townhome and down the dog path where his pursuit ended in the Shooting and killing an unarmed person.

Investigator Serinos report to the ME investigator on pg 13 of the autopsy report that states the resident confronted the male and a physically fight took place.

I linked to the report twice previously.

 

[deelytful1]

For what it's worth, none of my kids have (fill in the blank-because I don't want to be viewed as blaming the victim) as has been stated about Trayvon, and I would not characterize them as 'sweet and innocent'. They don't get into trouble, but they aren't sweet and innocent. They were 'sweet and innocent' in elementary school but.....

For the state to prove their case, it isn't required that Trayvon be 'sweet and innocent'. IMO

I was being extremely facetious to make a point.. but I agree. IMO though at 17 kids are all trying to ACT grown up but deep down inside they are only a few years away from when they were sweet and innocent. My son is 14 and I see him revert to a child whenever he is away from his friends.. when he feels safe at home.

 

[Truthy]

For sure, given the two races involved in this murder trial. IMO

The Pros is finally out doing itself!!! Sounds like GZ wouldn't be able to " yelp" or scream with blood from his nose running internally down his throat.IMO

Finally addressed my puzzlement, YAY !! Why would the blood from the back of GZ's head be running toward his face IF he was on his back..physically impossibe..gravity wouldn't allow it. IMO

And- he said Trayvon could not show bruises- so it's very possible that he was quite beat up. Just as possible as anything else. Hope they bring this up!
:seeya:

 

[ShadyLady]

Georgiagirl was not suggesting that, imo. Your response doesn't address her question about what I think comes down to teaching the young respect. Teaching your children respect used to be a given, and it was done in the majority of families, regardless of race. It was NOT unusual for an adult in your neighborhood after dark to ask why you weren't home, or what you were doing out after dark. It was a reasonable question. The lack of supervision that so many kids experience today is insane. It is not a good thing. IMO

I too miss the respect shown of the 50's even though I advocated for civil rights in my own way in the 60's. There is no contradiction here.

Respect everyone. What's wrong with that? Debate issues, respect the individual.

BOY...love this witness.

 

[gracielee]

Originally Posted by gracielee
Toxicology is ALWAYS part of an autopsy. ALWAYS. Regardless of the death, if an autopsy is done on the body, toxicology is a routine part of autopsy.

The only time blood is drawn from a live person is if that person presents themselves in some sort of questionable manner or fashion. There is plenty of audio and video evidence of GZ's movements & speech immediately following the incident. There is no slurred speach, emotional outbursts, staggering, etc., that would indicate impairment. IMO and as testified to, in the opinion of those who both saw and interviewed GZ.

With all the prescription medications being taken these days (many with warnings that they can cause anything from drowsiness to agitation and even suicidal behavior), IMO LE should get toxicology on both parties whenever substantial damage and/or death has resulted.:moo:

On the one hand, your descriptions of **they can cause anything from drowsiness to agitation and even suicidal behavior), ** again, per LE, none of these symptoms were displayed by GZ, hence their reasoning for lack of blood test.

I don't disagree with your remarks, but that would have to be something taken up with your local LE protocol & standards, including the extra cost of processing these tests in these times off budget cuts with LE. IMO

 

[Horace Finklestein]

Getting out of his vehicle to follow Trayvon on foot around the townhome and down the dog path where his pursuit ended in the Shooting and killing an unarmed person.

Investigator Serinos report to the ME investigator on pg 13 of the autopsy report that states the resident confronted the male and a physically fight took place.

I linked to the report twice previously.

You're leaving some things out. He was attacked by TM, he didn't just follow him and shoot him for no reason. That's a very important detail. All evidence points to TM being the aggressor imo. GZ did the right thing imo he had no choice. Following someone does not mean you cannot defend yourself if you are attacked imo.

 

[rob]

I'm guessing one he grabbed his gun, he remembered that he would be in much more trouble if he had left Trayvon alive to testify against him. Sad that it works that way. IMHO

I sorta feel like in the predicament GZ was in at the time, he probably didn't really aim the gun, just get it between them and shoot. Could have been hit in the head, arm, or even missed completely. I hate it all ended this way. Sad to lose a young life, sad to try a man, when I now, after watching the trial, think didn't intend to shoot anyone that nite. Things got out of hand, and many people will never get over what happened that fateful nite.

IMO, MOO etc

 

[sorrell skye]

Exactly. The prosecution can prove all day that something MIGHT have happened in a certain way and still not prove their case. All the defense has to do is create any reasonable doubt that it might have happened some other way inconsistent with Murder 2 or consistent with self-defense. jmo

BBM

I agree. I would change one word, though: the word 'prove'.

The prosecution can argue all day, but it doesn't necessarily prove anything, IMO, unless they can support their argument with factual evidence (even then, unless there is direct evidence, it's still open to interpretation).

Possibilities (speculation) can be endless. A reliable conviction shouldn't be based on possibilities (speculation), but upon factual evidence & intelligent interpretation of that evidence, IMO.