George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin General discussion #3

[GetToTheTruthNow]

In regard to your #1. If it was good for the defense, why was GZ's attorney so unhappy with this testimony? Just askin...

Good point, I think he was caught off guard by the fact she changed her deposition and got flustered.

Also I agree with Mark Geragos, those 911 calls may help George and he didn't know why the defense was fighting against them.

 

[kimlynn]

Fell and got a "likely broken" nose, and injuries all around his head?

Some tumble...

I thought it was determined that his nose injury wasn't that serious and his septum wasn't deviated.
The head abrasions didn't look very serious to me...or at least not consistent with having had your head beaten into the concrete.
It is possible that TM shoved him in an effort to get him away from him.
IMO

 

[nnglas]

Let's look at the relevant Florida law:

776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force.​

Watching someone from a distance is not an "imminent use of unlawful force".

:moo:

Um I wasn't talking about by him watching TM, and he was also following him. My comment was because GZ said that TM asked if he had a problem, GZ replied he didn't and then reached to get a cell phone and TM hit him.

If I'm TM and I know you were following me, and you didn't attempt to explain yourself, I might think you are reaching for a gun. In that scenario TM is using self defense.

IMO


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[SassyMom]

Indeed, GZ seems to have made up things as he went along, in order to escape serving time for murder. His head wounds are consistant from tripping and falling on the pavement whilst in pursuit, imo.

If I were chasing someone and I slipped and fell, to get those injuries I would have to spin during the fall and hit the back of my head on the concrete. A couple of times. Hmmmm that sounds pretty hard to do.

 

[DIBSY]

Most of the witnesses say " it was too dark to see" other than two guys on the ground and one getting up. GZ could have fell on the pavement before he apprehended TM and when no one could see, he could have banged his own nose with the heavy flashlight before the police arrived...it would only take ten seconds. There is absolutely no evidence that TM struck him, DNA or otherwise.
But it's easy to see why GZ would want it to look like he was hurt. He wanted to avoid prosecution, imv.

 

[AngelWings444]

These calls are from GZ, what HE is reporting/seeing. He is not reporting what others are reporting to him, as the "Captain". There has been speculation that the calls might have been from others using him as a liaison...not these calls. These calls hurt him. JMO

 

[cityslick]

If I were chasing someone and I slipped and fell, to get those injuries I would have to spin during the fall and hit the back of my head on the concrete. A couple of times. Hmmmm that sounds pretty hard to do.

Pretty much. Then at that point you are conceeding TM jumped/assaulted GZ as he was on the ground.

 

[sorrell skye]

IME, noses can be broken without the septum becoming deviated. My daughter was in a roller coaster crash and sustained a broken nose, but her septum was straight.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

All those calls tell me is that He was watching out for his neighbors.

 

[ncgramma]

Having listened to the calls, I think the defense will have a real chance to turn this evidence to GZ's favor.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

It never ceases to amaze me when a witness gets into court and there is new information given by that witness that has never been heard before, despite numerous interviews, depositions, prior testimony at hearings, etc.

This gets old.

Oh, and the "ear witness" who is SURE she heard Trayvon yelling. And she heard THREE shots. Yep. Alrighty. There's an "ear witness" for you.

I'd say the Prosecution is scraping the bottom of the barrel for witnesses. Or, perhaps this is why they didn't want to prosecute Zimmerman in the first place.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Most of the witnesses say " it was too dark to see" other than two guys on the ground and one getting up. GZ could have fell on the pavement before he apprehended TM and when no one could see, he could have banged his own nose with the heavy flashlight before the police arrived...it would only take ten seconds. There is absolutely no evidence that TM struck him, DNA or otherwise.
But it's easy to see why GZ would want it to look like he was hurt. He wanted to avoid prosecution, imv.

No because by the time the shot went off people saw him get up and walk over and he was under constant watch from then on. He did not run, hide, pick anything up. He got up and walked over and sat waiting for police.

 

[m00c0w]

Snipped for length...

If GZ had the wherewithal to pull out the gun, get it between himself and Trayvon, and if he felt threatened, why didn't he hit TM with the gun? Why didn't he say "halt I have a weapon" and display it? Why didn't he shoot him in the arm or shoulder? Why did he shoot him right in the chest?

First, if my head was getting pounded into the sidewalk, I think I'd find it hard to make any sort of cogent statement beyond a word or two at a time. I'd also not want to give the person on top of me, pounding my head into the sidewalk an opportunity to grab my gun and use it against me after I unholster it.

Second, if I were on a jury, I would wonder why the individual shot the person in a limb if they were in such fear of their life that they decided to use deadly force. And I'm sure the prosecution would bring up the same. If you are in fear of your life, your goal is to stop the threat. Shooting someone in the leg or arm or shoulder is not a great way to do ensure this.

All imo, of course.

You can't just go around carrying a concealed weapon and pull it out and kill someone if you provoke a confrontation because you perceive they look suspicious.

And this is the big question in the trial. If Zimmerman was just walking around after losing Martin, and Martin is the one that came up and punched Zimmerman, then Zimmerman did not start the confrontation. That would make Martin culpable.

 

[DIBSY]

If I were chasing someone and I slipped and fell, to get those injuries I would have to spin during the fall and hit the back of my head on the concrete. A couple of times. Hmmmm that sounds pretty hard to do.

I respect your opinion but cannot agree with it. When wrestling with TM, he could have got the lumps on the side of his head during the struggle of Martin to get away. I very much think that because it was wet, GZ fell at one point. I do think the nose injury was self-inflicted as there is no evidence it was rendered by Martin.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I don't think this is evidence of anything. Nothing other than he called 911 and that he was responsible.

 

[mom23gr8kids]

IMO. Just for fun, lets say that 17 year old Trayvon had a police record. Lets even say he was found guilty of possession of pot. * I AM MAKING THIS UP*

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? He was walking, talking on the phone. Oh, and he "looked suspicious" according to the defendant, "something's wrong with him...yep." So this suspicious looking night walker "looked" at GZ who was staring at and following him.

Why again does it matter whether Trayvon ever did anything questionable before? (Again, not saying for real whether he did or didn't.)

The kid walked through a townhouse complex. GZ over-zealously, while packing a loaded semi-automatic handgun, pursued his view of "justice" because "they always get away."

<modsnip>.

If GZ had the wherewithal to pull out the gun, get it between himself and Trayvon, and if he felt threatened, why didn't he hit TM with the gun? Why didn't he say "halt I have a weapon" and display it? Why didn't he shoot him in the arm or shoulder? Why did he shoot him right in the chest?

You can't just go around carrying a concealed weapon and pull it out and kill someone if you provoke a confrontation because you perceive they look suspicious.

<modsnip>
Whether that amounts to 2nd degree murder is something to be determined after all the testimony and jury instructions on the law. But IMO, GZ is criminally responsible for this kid's death, and it's not self-defense.

Because IMO it lends credibility to the idea that he would circle back to confront and beat GZ. IMO a kid who knows nothing of trouble, doesn't enjoy a fight, etc wouldn't seek one out just because someone followed him.

My only point was that I believe it gives credibility to GZ's statement that TM came back to seek out this confrontation and all the tragedy that led from that confrontation.

 

[Karmady]

The facts in evidence show GZ had a bad bloodied nose, Big lumps on the sides of his head and gashes in the back of his head that were still bleeding hours after the event.

I was really surprised by the extent of the head injuries, the big bumps in particular, from the photos yesterday.

 

[DIBSY]

No because by the time the shot went off people saw him get up and walk over and he was under constant watch from then on. He did not run, hide, pick anything up. He got up and walked over and sat waiting for police.

Testimony repeats that " it was too dark to see." No one has said he was under total surveillance until the police arrived, to my knowledge. Thanks for your comment, Scarlett.

 

[GetToTheTruthNow]

IMO. Just for fun, lets say that 17 year old Trayvon had a police record. Lets even say he was found guilty of possession of pot. * I AM MAKING THIS UP*

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? He was walking, talking on the phone. Oh, and he "looked suspicious" according to the defendant, "something's wrong with him...yep." So this suspicious looking night walker "looked" at GZ who was staring at and following him.

Why again does it matter whether Trayvon ever did anything questionable before? (Again, not saying for real whether he did or didn't.)

The kid walked through a townhouse complex. GZ over-zealously, while packing a loaded semi-automatic handgun, pursued his view of "justice" because "they always get away."

<modsnip>
If GZ had the wherewithal to pull out the gun, get it between himself and Trayvon, and if he felt threatened, why didn't he hit TM with the gun? Why didn't he say "halt I have a weapon" and display it? Why didn't he shoot him in the arm or shoulder? Why did he shoot him right in the chest?

You can't just go around carrying a concealed weapon and pull it out and kill someone if you provoke a confrontation because you perceive they look suspicious.

<modsnip>
Whether that amounts to 2nd degree murder is something to be determined after all the testimony and jury instructions on the law. But IMO, GZ is criminally responsible for this kid's death, and it's not self-defense.

All of this is speculation and none of it is true.

1) Yes he was walking home with with 7-11 purchases.

2) It appears Martin was upset about being asked if he 'was from around there' and ran left to right to confront Zimmerman.

3) Being a HS football player--Martin quickly got the upper hand in a fight and was bashing GZ's head into the concrete and broke his nose.

4) GZ pulls his gun and shoots him in the chest.

5) Martin falls forward on his stomach.

6) GZ gets on TM's back to prevent further fighting, not realizing he was already dead.

7) If you are the victim of 12-burgarlies then you become very alert, that is not mental illness.

,modsnip>

 

[AngelWings444]

Regardless of the outcome of this case, this judge is GREAT! So refreshing!